Galen

mj412: "no not ban people from the net they can not do that that is what twi tried and failed" Hmm, I think that many people are simply busy. My wife does go onto the internet, but she does not come here to GS, she has no desire to debate and to dig up bad memorys of the past. I get e-mails from CES, I have been on their website, I have attended some of their things. They study what they can, they teach what they have studied, and they fellowship. It is possible that there are other reasons, outside of 'banning' each other, why CES leaders dont post here. Or again perhaps you just dont recognize them when they do post here. Hmm. Personally I would 'guess' it was because they are too busy studying G-d, worshipping Him, and living life with family.

mj412: "many who post here are grads of the corps progrma which is an elite group inside of twi. the actual" better than" people(groomed to be leaders of the flock by twi) they held the commintment high and longer than the "ordinary believers" who ironicly often paid their way through the program" I am NOT corpse, and from my own personal experience the only people that I ever saw within TWI who did hurt others, or mis-use others, or get into a believer's face and scream was Way-Corpse-grads. When I have stated this on Greasespot Cafe, I have been amazed at the out-lash from many posters here. That Oh, no they were not responsible for their actions, and ALL the abuse was from VPW / LCM. It is an amazing thing to see. Many of the Ex-Way-Corpse do seem to still carry with them the 'identity' of being seperate from an average beleiver. My exposure was fairly limited having only been a follower of TWI for 18 years. :-) "This is an hiearchy formed within twi, again it is so ingrained it isnt notice even within their own ranks... you will notice a poster conceeding being extra kind and gentle to way corps grads . At grease spot only the chosen know who the chosen are in the posts and it is clear they often still hold this power over others and within themselves." Hmm, kind of. I am not any nicer or kinder to them than to anyone else. I dont believe so. Though I have been forced to be more apologetic as anytime we speak the truth about how Way-Corpse-Nazis hurt the body-of-Christ it does offend them so. ". . . hence the desire for grease spot cafe." I dont agree, I like GS, as herein I have found contact with a few others who share my world-view.

OE- Please dont take offense. I did not mean any insult in comparing Corinna to Mayberry and it's police to Deputy Fife. It just looked like such a peaceful town, it was very nice. :-)

Outin88!: "Galen, that sounds awsome. Hey maybe well be neighbors. Do you know anything about Greenbush or Corinna Maine? Saw some nice homes for sale online there." Greenbush is accross the river (directly accross), last winter I saw an ad for a piece in Greenbush and spoke with our realtor about it. 52 acres on the riverfront. My realtor had to speak with the seller's realtor. When he got back to me, he said that "in the spring the black-fly is so thick that to try cutting brush or trees with a chain-saw and the black-fly will take your chainsaw away from you." Corinna looked very nice, when I last drove through it. Mayberry is what came to mind, actually. Not sure if the deputy really carrys a bullet in his shirt-pocket though. "Anyway Central Maine looks very nice to me. Any GSpotters that live in that area???????" Last summer I made a bid on land in Liberty, turned out that rock ledge is underground and that installing a septic system would be impossible. Also Maine does not allow new dry toilets, nor any kind of high-tech septic systems, only a septic tank with leech field is legal to fullfil the requirements to build a house. After you have a septic system, then if you want to install a high-tech system in addition to the first, you can. This I got from a Soils Engineer in Maine. (His title was actually about 10 workds longer). My advice to you? Be aware of hidden rock ledges, in Maine. We have drawn the planns for what we want in this house, for some years, it is approx 5200 sq ft. Last year I transfered it to a architectural program, which renders all lighting levels and makes 'photo-realistic' images from any angle. Cool! If anyone has software to read a (52Mb) dxf file, I can send these plans to you and get feed-back. We contacted a steel-building manufacturer and they can deliver to us all parts, pre-cut, and ready to just bolt together, matching our planns; for around $25k.

I will see what I can do. Things may be a little tight, but running down to drop off a bunny or two might fit between errands I have to do. Yahoo tells me it is a 85minute drive to you, so I should be able to make it tomorrow and get back with 15 minutes extra before picking up more children.

Dmiller- “Nothing has been spoiled for me by my ex-twi experience, anymore than any other church I used to belong to. I still believe, I still find snippets of info that help me along the way, I toss out the trash, I hang on to the good, I incorporate into myself that which is (imho) "becoming, and profitable". I do this at work, I do this with "religious beliefs", I do this with LIFE. God can transcend all this crap, and I'm glad I'm on the road that may have a few detours here and there, but gets you there in the end.” Could not have been said better, Hooray. LindaZ- “I already had a high level of skepticism for organized religion before my Way Dayz.” Same here, and I think such is healthy for us. After all so many religions do take un-due advantage of their followers. . . . “I warily got involved because the idea that I could read the Bible myself and didn't have to rely on a preacher telling me what it all meant was appealing, and I wanted to hear more about it.” You hold fast to some parts, those parts which you can profit from and bless others with . . . . Watery Gardens- “but I don't blame God for this kind of crap. Well meaning people sometimes take things too seriously, starting with themselves, and then it gets all out of hand.” I like that quote. Oldie- “I refuse to be a continual victim, blaming twi for problems, or lost opportunities. As long as I'm still breathing, I can still do things and enjoy accomplishments. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" is still the truth for today!” Agreed.

I have found the Bangor area to be very nice. We got a place just North of Bangor, near Old Town. 44 acres with 1/4 mile of frontage on highway 116 and 1/4 mile of Penobscot River, mostly forested and all of it is "Tree-Growth" so property taxes are currently capped at $32/year. No house, but soon there will be. We got the land for $38k. We liked it so much that my sister-in-law bought the property across the street. 105 acres of forest with annual taxes of $40, for $40k. The I-95 freeway exit is #195, which puts it 8 miles from the Bangor mall at exit #187, and 10 miles from the Bangor 'Inter-National' Airport at exit #182. Lots of moose, bear and beaver.

Steve!: ". . . this Thursday evening . . . approximately 7 p.m" "Galen, are you out there? might you be able to make it?" My calendar says that we are setting up a 4-H Ag fair in Stonington (the demon-spawn are entering various things: clothing, baked goods, paintings, honey, etc), I have offered to park and setup our Motorhome to be used by a family that is staying on site through-out the fair. We setup the booths and entries Thursday evening. Anyone want some nice rabbits? These are Flemish Giants, wonderful nice golden fleece we have 7 males and 2 females that are 9 weeks old now. Unfortunately the local pet-stores and feed-stores dont want to deal in rabbits. These are very friendly and inquisative. Right now we have babysitting setup for Monday evenings (Due to the training, certifications and background checks that are needed; we get babysitting services via a 'medical-services' firm. We schedule our babysitters a month in advance).

The Girl From Oz: "Once you have left the TWI, have you told people about your expeience? When people ask you about yourself, do you mention that you used to be in a cult? Do you think it defines who you are/were as a person? Or not?" I have told people that I have ran home-based Bible-study fellowships for many years. That I perform weddings and funerals, that I am a Pentacostal Fundamentalist Unitarian. Beyond that I dont think that anyone really cares about what group I was a "follower together with". For many years when I have been introduced to Christains, it has gone something like: "This is ET1 Young, he is the Lay-Leader and runs all Protestant services on-board." At which point some might ask what church you belong to, but more often than not they want to explain what church THEY belong to. Now the Homeschool group we meet with, meets in a Baptist church. They each have had long journeys in coming to their current faith and only share their pasts when it is vital to the ministry. The Homeschool curriculum we use is Ana-Baptist, so it is seen and 'presumed' to be far more Fundamentalist then anyone else. (By the way, Ana-Baptist is the phrase for what others call: Mennonite).

I have seen in our society, men heavily burden themselves with the weight of being the "bread winner" and provider, the protector and "Bringing home the bacon". They have medical problems and die young. My wife and I, saw from the 'Virtuous Woman' that she can run her own businesses, her own lands, her own employees, and harvest food for her family. She can be a ‘bread winner’ and provide for her family. She has taken on more of those responsibilities, with her income. I then realized that I am not really supposed to be the sole 'bread-winner’; now we have shared things much more. My father is furious, because he thinks a man should never let his wife earn an income, let alone use that income for living expenses. I was once told (I truly do not remember who told me this), that 'husband' is only used when describing men in particular circumstances: 1-there is a husband or head of a wife, 2-there is a husband of a comb of bees, 3-a grape vineyard is maintained by a husbandman. We studied all three topics through out the Bible, to see what further teaching they held for being a better husband. But for me that was still not enough. While in prayer about my desire to know more, so in '85-'87, I took some college courses on horticulture, and learned to graft, prune and train grapevines. They need to be frequently watered, yet kept well drained. Vines must be twisted and trained to grow in the direction that provides them with the most sunlight and to ease harvest. Any errant branches need to be trimmed early on (before so much growth goes into them, that it hurts the vine when they are cut-off). When a branch starts in a direction you like, you adjust it and train it onto supports, so the vine will put extra growth into that branch that gets the extra attention. Weeds must be removed quickly as the vines should not compete for nourishment. In this way, each vine will work it's hardest to produce the sweetest juiciest fruit. My career moved us to a new area and in looking for a home; we found a home with a 20-acre vineyard. So while we lived there I made husbanding that vineyard, my hobby. Two moves later (we were in Connecticut) in '90-'93, I got to reading about bees and I bought a beehive, and learned to keep bees. I husbanded that hive for three years, as my hobby. I learned that bees need to be located in a sheltered location, They need a safe solid home, protected from wind and weather, with easy access for them, but limited access for anyone else. They need water close at hand, clean running water. Their placement needs to be done with consideration of where they are expected to work, and how they can get to their work. They need a clear path to their food. If placed within a grove of trees, they will never leave that grove. If placed in a location that is out of the wind where they can climb up high above the trees, then they will travel a radius of 20 miles to find food and bring it all home again. If I focus my attention and am gentle with them, maybe using something to provide a little distraction, when I go inside their hive; they will spare their wrath and will willingly give me all of their sugary honey. They will defend their home and only allow a loving husband near them. They will work hard and produce much honey and wax. I think that I have learned that my wife needs to be safe and protected; encouraged in her activities, and provided with any implements she needs to be able to work safely. Whatever she is good at, I need to point her in that direction and ensure she has full access to anything she needs. Anybody that distracts or bothers her needs to be addressed quickly. She should only be handled gently, and with my full attention.

Kit Sober- Kewl, I have been totally amazed at what some women do. Soon after we were married, Bonnie (entirely on her own) hosted a ‘ladies event’ and they did a weekend long study of Proverbs 31. From the things she showed me later, I was certainly taken aback by how ‘complete’ and independent such a woman would be. From that time, it has really stupefied me that so many men want to limit and contain what facets their wives express. Bonnie can only do all these things, if I ‘allow’ her. (Okay fine that is a bad phrase, forgive me. BUT you know what I mean.) Plenty of marriages out there do not allow the wife to own her own property, or to hire her own employees, to operate her own business. The sheer number of times that I have listened as people talked about how a particular women did provide the food for her family, by taking her husband’s money and going shopping. I don’t see that within Proverbs 31 at all. And neither does Bonnie. “. . . The only problem is that they have usually forgotten to mention the other main character--the Good Husband!” I would not agree that the main character is the husband when he is mentioned so rarely; however I think that this is a lesson to husbands. That women need to be allowed to do all these things, should they desire. Obviously a woman would not do nearly as well in any of these endeavors if she is not encouraged and supported and praised. “Cherishing” “First, the Good Husband recognizes the true value of his wife as a person (31:10). “ “He sees her as God's priceless, one of a kind masterpiece. He knows she's "worth far more than rubies." “ Absolutely! ! ! “Supporting” “The Good Husband believes in the potential of his wife (31:11).” “He doesn't put her in a box called "home" only to let her lie there dormant. Instead, he allows her to be productive and fulfilled both in and out of the home.” “The Good Husband is mature enough to encourage and support his wife to reach her full potential. He believes in her and provides an atmosphere in which she is free to succeed. He doesn't let his ego get in her way.” Here, Bonnie and I have always thought that this was the meaning of: “Faithfulness” Being full of faith in the abilities of each other. “Frankly, the Good Husband of Proverbs 31 amazes me. How many husbands are willing to let their wives make real estate investments and start business ventures on their own (31:16)? How many husbands are willing to let their wives make contributions to charitable organizations as they see fit (31:20)?” Bonnie carries my ‘full general power of attorney’ and from time to time, we have had ‘special’ ones drawn up so she could purchase housing in my name (thus more fully able to access our shared credit rating and income history). “Traditionally, the husband has been viewed in our society as solely responsible for the family income and budget. The wife has been left out of these matters. But the Good Husband challenges these cultural myths.” I have ‘preached’ these concepts many times to the men I have ministered to. Men being the ‘bread winner’ and ‘bringing home the bacon’ are strong ideals in our culture. They place sole responsibility for the financial well being of a home, onto the husband. Which I have come to believe is primary source of why men die earlier than women in our culture. The stereo-type (yes stereo-types are bad, but they exist for a reason, being that they define large portions of data-points) places all of the pressure of earning income and providing for the family onto one person, which I believe adds to the causes which lead men to statistically die younger than women. “The biblical concept of submission has in it the idea of assuming a supportive role. Both men and women are called to "Submit to one another" (Ephesians 5:21).” “The Good Husband actively supports his wife as she seeks to reach her full potential as a person.” Rather: Each spouse actively supports the other as they seek to reach their full potential supporting the goals of the family. “Listening” “The Good Husband realizes the importance of listening to (and learning from) the wisdom of his wife (31:26). He is spared from many rash and foolish actions by respecting the "faithful instruction...on her tongue." “The Good Husband strengthens his marriage by taking the time to listen to his wife. He respects her opinions and heeds her advice.” “No, I haven't relinquished my responsibility as the spiritual leader in our home . . .” Now why is it that within our society it is assumed that to listen and be supporting, a man must relinquish being head-of-household? “Praising” “Finally, the Good Husband praises the virtues and accomplishments of his wife (31:29). He doesn’t flatter her, but praises his wife for her fear of God (31:30) and her successful endeavors (31:31).” I know that I have posted here before what I have learned about being a ‘husband’. Remember you can only be a ‘husband’ of: (a) wife (wives), bees, or grape vineyards. Each have some things to show us about being a ‘husband’. And is partly why I husband honeybees to this day.

Watered Garden: "Galen, American Safari tours offers yacht cruises up some river (Napa?) and stops to visit wineries. I am just busting to do that some day. Been to northern California, never middle or southern." Sounds like fun. Those small Northern Cal wineries do need the support. Say hi to Pat Paulson (remember the goof-ball who kept running for president against Kennedy, Nixon, Reagon, etc?) He was constantly on laugh-in and the Smothers Brothers. "Our best vacation: Glacier National Park. On the goback list for sure." A wonderful drive along the Queen's Highway, I have done it on a bike (after a long patrol) and again 10 years later with my family while re-locating to Washington state from Connecticut. The drive from the following the Northern shore of the 'Great lakes' on out through to B.C. was just wonderful. Especially going through Glacier National Park, you just stay on the freeway it goes right through the park, lots of glaciers you see right from the car, and tune your radio and at each curve of the freeway, the radio tells you a description of the glaciers you are driving by, giving you the full tour. A really nice drive. Good luck.

Watered Garden: "We're going to Branson with our sister and brother in law. And to the wine country of Missouri, which is actually very good indeed and could give California wines a run for their money. second week of August. I understand it will be quite warm, but bro-in-law has a ski boat he's towing out there. It may be fun; I feel a tad young for Branson, tho." A word about 'California wines'. My eldest sister's family has 400 acres of zinfandel grapes just outside of Modesto, they sale to Gallo (One of the brothers is an old Army buddy of my brother-in-law). Anyway some years they have HUGE surpluses of grapes, while other years they have terrible shortages. In the early 90's they decided to build a large underground vault to store the surplus and let it age, so Gallo could market high quality 'aged' wines. The vaults are over 500 acres, they bought oak barrels in Europe and had them re-assembled in the vaults. They estimated that it would take 20 years just to fill the vaults, at which time the first wines stored would be premium quality. In 1997 I started seeing 'Livingston wines' on the market, when I asked relatives, I found that with a series of good harvests they had been able to completely fill the vaults and had to start selling the 'aged' stuff.

Zixar: "Mark: Were you speaking figuratively? Kerry's "pair" are hardly symmetrical. Get a ruler if you don't believe me. She also had the misfortune to inherit her father's long, gaunt face. It's not that she's ugly by any means, and of course, you're entitled to your own opinion, but I think Jenna Bush beats her in every category save the outfit." After going back and reviewing I would have to say that yes she did have a face, just didn't notice at first. Also thanx for the directions to find the camera, found it too. Only took a couple tries to find it.

Steve- I admit that for the most part I have ignored the goings on from this thread. “Momentus sought to remedy problems of the flesh by using tools of the flesh. The motivation of its parent organization is money.” This is the same, as it would be for most religious denominations that I am aware of (I say most as the Amish and Mennonites don’t seem to be that concerned with the ‘bottom-line’). “Every person who signed the "hold harmless agreement" swore a solemn oath that they would totally ignore any connections between the Momentus training and the damage it caused in their own lives or the lives of others. I don't trust the perceptions of anyone who has not repented of that foolish (Galatians 3:1; "anoetos" = "unthinking") oath.” Are you saying that they need to repent of ‘holding harmless’, or of taking an ‘oath’? I have been through various group-therapy forums wherein we had to agree to a basic form of ‘holding harmless’ everyone within the group and everything that they say (Otherwise, being military and of various ranks we could easily be committing violations of the UCMJ, each time we insulted someone). You say that this “Momentus’ holding harmless” is to ignore damage caused by momentus? Hmm, that sounds weird to me. “The leaders of CES were willing to accept a 5% attrition rate among the people they led into Momentus. They were willing to allow one in twenty of their followers to have their lives devastated for the sake of the "good" it did for the other 95%. That's a dandy thing if you're one of the 95%. If you just happen to be one of the 5%, then it's pretty much hell.” It seems to me that most any doctrine you teach will be going along smoothly and then suddenly while everyone else is lapping it up, one person will jerk and have issues, and from that moment on that one person is fighting everything the group stands for. I recall one gentleman we had in a PFAL class, he had been in our fellowship for months, and I worked in the same shop with him. He had dinner with us many times and cookouts, etc. During PFAL, when VPW made reference to today’s Jewish people (which was not complementary at all), he shut down and refused to speak to anyone. Never attended our home again, that moment pretty much ended our friendship. What I am saying is that anytime, you could be teaching anything, when you make a statement that is going to really ring in someone and set them against you. But that the rest of the people will gladly continue, and will be ‘blessed’ by it all. “To this day, the leaders of CES do not recognize the havoc they wreaked in the lives of their followers, because they swore the oath to hold Momentus harmless, and they haven't repented.” I guess my question is: did CES wreck the havoc, or Momentus? Or was it the swearing of the oath? As such, do you feel that I need to repent of having lead fellowships wherein one man who taught sometimes believed that Jews today have no standing with Our Heavenly Father? Did I teach that? No. Did I believe that? No. Was it a small portion of what was otherwise a great time fellowshipping and studying the Bible together? Yes. :-)

Littlehawk- “have been buying dirt for a few years cause they ani'nt maki'n no more of it!” Good idea. But on the other hand, sometimes dirt is just dirt. “I think sometimes we define retirement wif the wrong phraseolgy tho! If money was the terms I could retire tommorrow,,,I think our standard of living plays a major role in retirement often overlooked. I know several rich people retired that are bored stiff!” Yeah my mother and relatives keep saying that I am too young to be retired. In their minds it means sitting in a rocking chair whittling and chewing tobacco. But I am way too busy for that. Fixing things in apartments when they break, maintaining the Motorhome, ‘Husbanding’ our livestock, Homeschooling some kids, trying to keep up with the rest. . . and now buying farm land in Maine. Far too busy. Ckeer- “It shows what I was talking about-the required age to finish withdrawl is 111 and the requirements would force most people to deplete their accounts much sooner - probably by 85 or 90 for most people. The only way to slow it down is to use the required minimum which will effectively force you to live on less each year during your retirement.” The chart may go out to 111, but at those numbers of minimum require withdrawal, any account is going to be empty long before you get to 111. I don’t think that IRAs were designed to be your sole source of income during ‘retirement age’. But as something the masses could do to assist with their retirements. Those charts would have me draining an IRA account by 80 years old. “If you can do that go for it, I'd be happy for you. If you had that kind of money though you might want to do realestate like Galen does. It would probably have a good effective rate of return and stable income stream- It would not be as liquid and managing might make for a working retirement.” Exactly. 1- The only thing that ‘my money’ did was cover the closing costs during purchase of the properties. 2- My money that I do put against my principle (in buying down the mortgage) is effectively getting 16% when compared against the total payments needed to completely pay-off said mortgage. 3- It does provide a very steady income stream. I rent for approx 20% below the local area going rate for rentals, which keeps me full and my renters ‘love’ me. I stay out of their apartments unless they invite me. We have BBQs and invite them. My dog has proven his worth multiple times by chasing off kids sneaking in our parking lot at nights, etc. Each month; the rentals get a ‘discount’ for paying on time, each month I ask if there is anything I need to fix on the building, and if there is I ask them for their desire of what I should fix first. 4- It is a ‘working’ retirement, but hey what else is a 40 yr old supposed to be doing? 5- The building’s mortgage escrow account provides a life insurance policy against my life, so the building is paid off should I pass; thus I have no need for further life insurance policies. I don’t care how hard it is a get a job, I don’t work at one, the renters do. 6- To live in the Motorhome, or to work on the farm we are establishing in Maine; will always require that I make runs back to this property each month or so. We have done contracts with managers in the past; each time was a disaster, or near disaster. We have sold each property that we did have, with the exception of this one, and have consolidated our focus on this building. Tom- “My plan for retirement is to move to southern New Mexico, live at a KOA and work at a diner washing dishes... I get free food and beautiful weather and sunsets... ahhhh... the carefree life!” Come join us in Maine. Watch sheep in a pasture, kayak up the stream, fish in the river, dodge moose on the roads, and help me pulling stumps out of the ground.

Mark: "Heading for New England (ME, VT, NH, MA - maybe) in a couple of weeks. Any suggestions for non-typical or non-tourist infested places to visit that would be worthwhile?" Any desires to tour a submarine? Also check both 'Foxwoods' and 'Mohegan Sun' for what concerts they will be hosting while you are around. Wierd Al next week, I think. But most every big name comes through there routinely. I live between both these casinos. We have got a spare couch that folds out, as well as a Motorhome that sleeps 6; if you need a rest-stop.

Cindy- “I totally admire your ability and resources to homeschool....wish I could do the same.” Thank you, maam. “As a Mom of four, I can honestly say that I share your view of many public school administrators and etc... but most parents have no clue of their parental rights. And make NO difference. I have been in the office of those administrators who would take full credit for MY fight to get my kids what they deserve.” It is my humble opinion that ‘most’ parents don’t care. Apathy is rampant and growing in our nation. “This isn't a two sided coin....it is many faceted. As a public school teacher who cares...I ask you, Galen, to not blame the entire system for the acts of those who do not care.” I did not mean to be blaming them ALL. I apologize if it sounded like I was. “I have kids too...I stand and fight for them and am often extremely unpopular with the teachers and administration where my kids are.(BOY could I tell you stories!!!)” Bonnie wrote in the textbooks of our 6th grade girl (Sam). During the first few weeks, Sam was very embarrassed, but later each time they began a new topic in social studies, the teacher would ask Sam, what her mother had written about this topic. Sam’s ‘science’ class divides itself into the following topics: soil pollution, air pollution, water pollution, ‘something else I don’t remember’ and can Giaia heal herself? I asked her ‘science’ teacher about these topics, and she told me that in keeping modern these are the primary divisions of science now days. “I also am a teacher and enforce my rights there to teach my students. My rebel stance has cost me two jobs so far.” Keep up the good work.

ckeer: ". . . the penalties I was talking about are for not withdrawing it soon enough or fast enough" I went ot IRS.gov and I saw that: "Figuring the Owner's Required Minimum Distribution - Figure your required minimum distribution for each year by dividing the IRA account balance (defined next) as of the close of business on December 31 of the preceding year by the applicable distribution period or life expectancy." "Life expectancy. If you must use Table I, your life expectancy for 2004 is listed in the table next to your age as of your birthday in 2004. If you use Table II, your life expectancy is listed where the row or column containing your age as of your birthday in 2004 intersects with the row or column containing your spouse's age as of his or her birthday in 2004. Both Table I and Table II are in Appendix C." "Example - You own a traditional IRA. Your account balance at the end of 2003 was $100,000. You are married and your spouse, who is the sole beneficiary of your IRA, is 6 years younger than you. You turn 75 years old in 2004. You use Table III. Your distribution period is 22.9. Your required minimum distribution for 2004 is $4,367 ($100,000 ?.9)." "APPENDIX C. Life Expectancy Tables Table I (Single Life Expectancy) (For Use by Beneficiaries)" My current age: 45 Their projection of how much longer I will live? 38.8 I have issues with IRAs to begin with. Yes they are a good idea, if you have nothing else and dont know where else to start, BUT. . . . . $2k a year? Now $3500 a year? What do you think you are going to be doing with that? In the first example they gave (This truly did come from IRS.gov) is for $4,367 per year, that's $363.92 per month, or 12 dollars a day. I hope you dont need to turn on a lamp to read by, it is going to run up your electric bill. Three grand a year is only going to build so much of a nest egg, over # years. By all means much better than nothing, but come on. My pension now is $1250 a month, and we get an average of over $900 each month child support for each foster/adopt child we have (rates go up as they get older, until they leave college). P.S. in the above cutting and pasting, I did leave out pages after pages of crud and attempted to only paste those sniplets that were applicable. If I left out some portion which applied to you, then I am sorry. I did not mean to insult anyone, nor to leave anyone out. G-d bless you and keep you. May the IRS hammer us all until we die. May your wife always be smiling and your car's fuel tank always be full.

Nice to have you back, maam. I went up to Maine for a fortnight, shopping for land. And we are going back up this coming weekend, to spend a day on the land we are buying. Do some kayaking, fishing, and mark out where the house goes. . . . Again nice to see you home, again.

I dont know how much money I have spent on TWI. I think most of it was well spent (compared to drinking it). Back when I first got into TWI, they would pay us four months pay inadvance exactly one week before we went under. I would get $6,000 in one day, and not know what to do with it. After a few patrols, I saw that most of my fellow sailors were flat broke when we surfaced months later, and we had not been anywhere to spend it, so they had spent it all on drinking in that last week before we went under. I saw guys spend their pay on WOW girls, paying their rent in advance, filling their cupboards, buying dresses, fixing cars, etc. I know that I would have done much better to have invested that money in something, but I was in a culture where we drank most of that moeny before we went under. So spending it on believers did seem better. I have seen many get their $45k re-enlistment signing bonus and spend it all on a car, then get drunk and wreck the car. Spending the money on a Bible ministry is much better. Once I got into investing and tax-planning, I started keeping track of all money spent on TWI (and on beleivers), and have used it mostly as tax-write-offs ever since.

ckeer: "Galen and others- A book you might be interested in is called Missed Fortune by Douglas R. Andrews." Will have to read it, thanks. "One thing I suggest people do is get educated on the payout requirements on your IRA's and pensions. From what I understand there are serious penalties if you aren't carefull." Cool, the penaltys on early withdrawls from IRAs are sure bad.

It does seem that everyone each has their own opinion of this issue. Last week's local paper stated that Norwich pays $8,250 per child to fund the local school system, and yet this past year the state-wide testing scores dropped 10% - 20% (depending on subject and grade level). One of our children's teacher last year was terrible, she did not know how to control her classroom at all. Once while speaking with me, she told me that she had been a teacher in a neighboring school system, but had moved here because of the higher salary. Now she could afford to purchase her own home, whereas before she could not. Our kids (those that are public schooled) spend two weeks at a time doing the 'Connecticut Masters Testing', they do this three times each year. For a total of spending six years each year repeating the same tests, over and over again. All in the hopes of getting higher test scores. So much time spent practicing a test, rather then spent on vocabulary, or spelling, or penmanship, or math. So long as a child attends school through-out the year, requiring the school to pass that child on to the next grade-level; is something that these teachers dont seem to like. But then again, being a Homeschooler and fighting the public school system at every step with our foster children; I really dont care what these public-school-teachers say or want. As I have posted here previously. Working with these kids over the weekends and during the summer, we have done far more educating, than the public system has been able to do, or would ever think of doing. Once this past school year, an elementary principal started to tell me that she was so proud of how much her school had improved our youngest child. As it happened, a Local School Board member was in her office. I faced her down, and within 3 minutes, she admited that her system had not done anything to educate any child and that my family had to fight her every step of the way. It really ticked me off, that this idiot would dare to take credit when they spend 2 days a week on multi-culturalism, 1 day each week is DARE, 1 day is "Dont make fun of me", and then they spend 6 weeks each year practicing the state testing. :-) Public school's have a lot of 'issues'. My family has been in America going back to 1790 on one side, and back to the Mayflower on the other side. I am the first generation in my family to have been publically schooled and I am the last. I really dont think that this 'experiment' is working well, at all.

Wacky- “At the end of this month, I will be debt free!!!” Congratulations! ! ! “. . . (that is until I need a new car, and then I'll have car payments.)” I don’t buy vehicles on credit. After reading (and re-reading) “The Millionaire Next Door”, we only buy 5 – 10 year old cars at that age they can not depreciate any further and if they are still in good condition it is a guarantee that they were not a factory lemon. HAP- “. . . . However, I think my first goal will be to have that amount in liquitable assets (i.e funds/stocks/ cds/ IRAs etc) at my retirement, as well as having some additional amount in other less liquid assets.” It is good to have a goal. I question some forms of investments, as both sets of my grandparents lost all their money when their banks went under, my parents have lost their money once from financial institutions going under, and I narrowly escaped a bank going under in 1991. We had been using a local bank, when their policy insulted me terribly and I decided to withdraw all my funds, fortunately I closed my accounts just one week before that bank closed suddenly. More recently I use the Enron scandal as a good example, as EVERYONE has been taught that mutual funds are very ‘safe’, but cities / states / municipalities and even Public utilities have all been hurt as they had the bulk of their operating capital invested in funds when the market tanked. Now cities and states through out nation are still trying to climb out of financial difficulties. Herbie- “If you look at big business's record you'll see that at least one sector (if not more) has been through a depressed cycle in recent memory, it is an ongoing thing in our economy and won't change soon.” True. “There's tons of speculating going on in the RE market with value exceeding reality in many cases so from a long term standpoint slowing the market down makes sense” As always. Though I will stick to residential-rental properties. Generally people need housing. To buy them for no money down, and to use rental income to cover mortgage payments, taxes and insurance, and then to use one unit to house my family; is a strategy that has done us well. The only thing I see that would really upset this, is should a city be left standing, but it’s entire population suddenly leave it behind. P’mosh- “I've been thinking about this subject over the weekend, and although I still plan to keep saving money, investing in index funds, and purchasing real estate in the future, I think it's all for naught.” I hope not. “It's entirely possible that within the next ten years, the U.S. is going to have a huge economic recession, perhaps even a depression, due to the baby boomers retiring and pulling their money out of stocks. I think the real estate market will be killed as well when they all start dying off. The only solution would be to open up the floodgates at the borders and start replacing these people, but I doubt that will happen.” Where we live, we are seeing incredible influx of immigrants currently (Chinese, Vietnamese and Puerto Rican) due to there being such a shortage of workers of course. They just brought in 3500 Polish and Cheks College students to work through the summer.

Trefor Heywood: "Boxers are merely decorative and have no visible means of support. They cannot even prevent a "breakout"..." While wearing some types of Naval Dress uniforms those are the required underwear. The "Tropical Whites" tend to become rather see-thru when back-lighted. Recently the contractor that supplies them has sewn silk boxers into the pants. There have been a few incidences where high ranking Naval officers have been up on a podium giving a speech, as the sun started to set behind him, and thousands of sailors and spectators had full view of the speaker's assets. Afterall when stationed in tropical areas it tends to get HOT so nobody wears more than they have to, and what you do wear gets matted down and soaking wet from sweat. Besides do we really need support? I understand that women may need support (generally when men are not watching them), as they dont want to droop more then needed. but it has been my impression that many men WANT to droop more. In factr from the spam I get, marketing is targeting on the idea that some men, some where do want to have longer droop capability. Is something going somewhere? I do understand for jogging, or some forms of exercise. Under-water we always called it "Free-balling", and . . . . never mind.