Galen

1975: Minimum wage for non-farm workers was $2.10/hour, $16.80/day, $84/week, $4200/50-week-year Minimum wage for farm workers was $1.30/hour, $10.40/day, $52/week, $2600/50-week-year 1976: Minimum wage for non-farm workers was $2.30/hour, $18.40/day, $92/week, $4600/50-week-year Minimum wage for farm workers was $1.60/hour, $12.80/day, $64/week, $3200/50-week-year In 1975 I worked in a pizza parlor for 2.10/hour from 3pm until midnight [we had to be in the restaurant early, we had to 'clocked in' after we had changed into their uniform, we 'clocked-out' for breaks]. Then I shifted to a job flipping burgers at an A&W Rootbeer and Burger stand [the car hops wore mini-skirts and roller-skates].

Belle: "Galen, it seems as though you were pretty much in a utopian TWIt environment. I've read several times at your shock and awe of the horrendous treatment, lies and doctrines taught. Maybe you just weren't around enough to have been affected by it or you were perceived as being too strong to bully, but the doctrines were taught from HQ in the STS tapes, the Way Mag and by all the WC, so I don't know how you missed so much of it. I didn't get in until the late 80's, but it was certainly standard _good practice_ to limit all communication with family who "refused the Word", it was _better practice_ to cut off all communication with those body & soul empties." I grew up in churches, so I have never been big on sucking up to the clergy. I am leery of my money going there, to be spent on weapons to kill missionarys with, or to be spent on prostitutes, or whatever floats the boat of the average reverend. We rarely met any corpse that i liked, so we largely avoided them. To our expereince they often became total a@@holes, within a few minutes of meeting one. I spent most of my adult-life around Navy bases, which was very active with Twigs but largely devoid of corpse. I was once promised a subscription of the Way Magazine, never got it. But at the time, I was living on-board a sub. They would hold our mail in a closet for 4 months, while we were under and then give it all to us when we next came ashore. So it is possible that any magazines that I had 'recieved' were dumpstered months before I surfaced, each time. Other than that I dont think I ever had a subsription to the magazine. Some years Bonnie would listen to the teaching tapes, and if there was anything 'good' she would save it and share with the fellowship. Some years went by wherein not a single tape was deemed 'good' by her, and that was fine with us. Most times when we had to interface with Corpse, it was such a negative experience, that anything the corpse was doing we really did not care. Our envolvement with TWI? Do twigs, run classes (except in areas where the LC insisted that only Corpse could run classes], send in blue-forms, serve big dinners and have partys. We usually ran a twig for whatever sub-crews were in port at any time. But again I traveled a bit. When I was under, Bonnie most often continued the twig, in my stead. In Ct[78-81] I just hung out in a couple twigs when I was not under-water. Got in trouble with the first corpse that I ever met. He was lying to some beleivers and I caught him. He threw me out. In Virginia[81-82], Bonnie once met the Lallys, but we were called "the out-lying areas", we ran a twig there for 2 years. In California[83-87], we breifly lived with a corpse couple (Steve Frampton], we were more hippy than anything else. Then we moved and were again the only twig in a large area, outside of sending in blue-forms and interacted with TWI once a year at the annual limb-meetings. Then we were stationed in Scotland[97-90], Went to Gartmore House, but they did not really want to interface with us since we were Americans. So I became the CC for Americans living in Scotland and we interfaced with HQ directly, though we recieved Gartmore tapes each week. In Ct[90-93] we ran a twig and even had 2 corpse couples who were removed from the 'active-list' in our twig, they were just 'attending' our twig, they really could not talk with us [we were beneath them, and obviously did not have the spiritual maturity to understand anything] so we just ran the twig, ran classes, went to a TC meeting once every three months or so. Granted that did mean that we had to interface with active-corpse three or four times a year, but we survived. In washington[93-97] we were within another's twig, and I ran services under-water. We did not have any corpse locally. One guy in our twig, was going across the sound so he could suck up to the LC, every few days, he did some snooping in our home and he found that we had books that were 'forbidden' that got us booted in 97. In Italy[97-01] we ran a fellowship in our home and ran PFAL classes, sent in forms, but never heard anything back from HQ. I suppose that I was a CC again, but we never met another TWI beleiver while we were there, certainly no corpse. Bonnie and I have both been in the University of Life courses, though in them none of these mean-spirited doctrines come to light. Is that utopian? I dont know, it worked for us and enabled us to do the work of the ministry, helping others and bringing the Word to many.

sky4it: "I remember years ago when I was involved in doctrinal disputes with Pentacostal types. My attitude was so ferocius that it made everything that I said questionable in there eyes. Knowledge without love isnt the good word of God either, all it creates is strife." True. ". . . Neither have I once called TWI a cult and why? Because I think it does diservice to the people who simply wanted to know more about the Lord." Sounds about right to me. "I expereinced a similar breakup of a small church group that was Pentacostal years ago. From that group I have a 2 year Bible diploma that has no value. The group no longer exists." I have to wonder sometimes [since over the years many 'good' ministrys do start-up, then later dissolve] if 'Pikes Peak Theological Seminary' wasn't like that. In my opinion that does not lessen the value of the time, energy and focus that you spent in study, nor would it lessen those things for anyone else, including VPW. "There are a some other Biblical interpetation principals that I have picked up that I never heard at TWI at all. One is the concept of "typeology" . . . " Yes, good methods of 'seeing' a greater meaning. "I think that the Kool Aid concept from some other authors is mean spirited." I agree. "With respect to Lynn and CES and The Way, I think its approbriate for people to point out the things that they thought hurt them. The flip side is that it should be done also in love for there own sake also." I agree. "If you think I was overly harsh I apologize" Not at all, I too apologize if I was overly mean. I did not intend to sound that way. Sorry. I try to put smiley faces to show that I am goofying and mean no insult. I must forget sometimes. Bless you. "Personally I dont want to get in any more doctrinal disputes, I think they end up poorly most of the time." True. I had only meant that since you want a simple loving Bible study group that can help each other and yet guard one another; that is what many of us had during TWI-1. That is what I would desire again today as well. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to join together once again; sing praises to the Lord, pray, and then take turns sharing what each of us has learned from the Bible recently.

sky4it: "You made some good points, I think there was some good stuff as you said." uh, thank you. "I remember a time when the concept of only reading the word I found quite refreshing. The truth is, I still find that concept refreshing." So you would be interested in a TWI-1 style fellowship, good. One done, many others to go. :-) "At the time I bumped into TWI, I was reading the paraphrase version, which as we all know is just the bible paraphrased. Certainly by emphasizing the translated word was a issue that was well needed. Twi did this." I am glad that there was something that you did find and have been able to hold on to, through all the turmoil and evil that later developed. Bless you.

Darrell Bailey: "And, that are not available (fitting the “not known for centuries” criterion) in other places where people teach, study, share the Bible, even in other times and places?" Why would they become in-valid if they can be found in some other ministry? VPW sometimes referred to a vision that “if I study and teach the Word, it will be revealed to me as it has not been revealed since the first few centuries”. It never occurred to me, that he meant that brand new doctrines would be revealed to him that had been forgotten for centuries. I understood him as saying that while there are thousands of doctrines already floating around out there; those ‘revealed’ to him would be the closest to that early church that had seen great rise and healing power in use. I had not heard it said that his doctrines were to be totally brand new and otherwise un-known among mankind since 200AD until I heard it here on GS. Which was why so many were freaking out that many of VPW’s doctrines came from other previous theologians. I have no problems with the idea of TWI doctrines coming from previous denominations or theologians; so long as they can be worked out in prayerful study of the Bible using detailed analysis of the individual words used, as well as the context and everything said by the Author previously. Obviously TWI became an organization focused on the ‘bottom-line’ and with the ability to abuse it’s followers. But that was not what we were focused on doing within the Twigs. “John Lynn said that there are awesome truths not known for centuries.” Well Speaking in Tongues had largely disappeared from the Earth. Though now it is much more common. If you dig through every written study from every theologian, you would most likely be able to ‘find’ most of the things JAL has seen. But buried away in a seminary library, and not brought out and practiced; is pretty much the same thing as being ‘not known’. Certainly ‘not known’ by the common street Christian. “He, as well as most of the others who perceive they have enough fish after spitting out the bones, have stated that these truths were not known for centuries outside of TWI. If it is true that there are truths not known for centuries as well as other places in the present culture, then they would be AWESOME. I am just attempting to start a legit dialogue over what lessons learned in twi that fit the criteria as described by the most well known and highly placed officers of TWI, John Lynn.” I don’t think that he was ever a corporate ‘officer’ of TWI, was he on the Board at some point? Five crucified: was not ‘known’, though I have seen catholic churches with marble carved relief’s depicting the scene with five crucified. Just South of Rome, in little villages that were converted to Christianity during the Roman Empire. The churches are still there, does that make it a part of the common Christian experience? No. It is something that has been forgotten by the popular main-stream movement. [The church that comes most readily to mind, I toured with my family, was not truly that old, maybe 8th century or so.]

WOW. Reading the last few posts, I am amazed. And certainly sorry if I had any place in the movement to cause you to say such things to grandparents or any relatives and to condemn their actions so. I was not aware that anyone had treated their own family so ruthlessly. May I ask, during what period of TWI did you learn to treat others in this manner? While we still hold to the 'Law of Beleiving', I have always seen it as going far over-board to actually blame anyone's 'bad-luck' on their own beleiving. Rain falls on saint and on sinner alike. And we live in a world of spiritual battles going on, that we are mostly un-disturbed by. So many things happen just because that is the way the dice rolled that day, and other things happen because spiritual forces caused them to happen, I want to beleive to keep my family safe. And I talk daily with G-d about the issue. I want to maintain a self-image of strong beleiving that we are protected. But that does not stop all these other forces from coming along and wiping us out, either. We were followers of TWI for a seeming long time (myself 1978 - 1997, my wife 1976 - 1997), but we were largely isolated from many of the criminal conduct and just really harsh things that were going on. You were actually taught to treat others and even loved ones like this? Ugh. All I can say is "I am sorry, presuming that I witnessed to you somewhere along the line, or caused you to be a such an area that you were so indoctrinated in that way."

Darrell Bailey: "My question is: What specific doctrines or practices did you learn in your “way years” that are: Really usable in your “life”" "And, that are not available (fitting the “not known for centuries” criterion) in other places where people teach, study, share the Bible, even in other times and places?" Why would they become in-valid if they can be found in some other ministry? The only problem that I see with 'the law of believing' is that if 'leaders' become Nazis, they will try to use your 'believing' against you. I think that was in error, not the 'law' but twisting it into a method of manipulating others and belittling them. 'Speaking in Tongues' still works for me and for mine. I fail to see how it is any less important if 5 other ministries do it, or if 100 do. 'Keys to research' by all means they came from Bullinger, so what? We owe a lot to Paul, we owe a lot to Martin Luther. Does that somehow subtract from anything, that we got protestant-ism from Luther? No, there have been many many believers who have made progresses for us. If they found something that works and helps to bring them closer to G-d, closer to His son Jesus, then wonderful. To my knowledge Every Christian ministry has borrowed bits and pieces from previous ministries, that is how it works. The ability to study a topic, exhaustively from the Author of the Bible's point of view. I have debated the idea of 'word-studies' with men of other denominations. They truly don’t hold the Bible in the same level of integrity that I do. Saying, "it was written by men", "it has errors", and “only the developed doctrines issued from enlightened men's debate can be held as sacred". I can go to sea with the agreement that I will study a specific topic, and my wife will also do the same. After months at sea, when I return, What I will have written in summing my study will be 90% the same as my wife's independent study. It will almost always contradict the 'Christian community standard' of wisdom. Bullinger/VPW/TWI methods of doing a 'word-study' works. It does re-define entirely different definitions of commonly used words Biblical words and phrases. Bonnie and I often find that we have been developing our own 'language', from this all. Did/does TWI have problems? Sure. Do most clergy hire prostitutes like the Baptists did when I was a member there? Not that I have seen. Did/does TWI sponsor terrorist rebellions and smuggle guns into South America like the Methodists did when I was a member there? Not that I have seen or heard. Did/does TWI make little altar boys squeal? Not that I have seen or heard. TWI is not the only denomination that has issues. But the basic doctrines have been such that we like most of them.

Cherished Child: "If I were John Lynn, I would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was a mistake to post here at Greasepot. I would know that there is absolutely nothing I could ever say that could justify my existence or my work in the eyes of most posters. I would realize what an incredible waste of time it would be to even try." True. Since returning stateside, we have spoken with a number of friends and it has amazed me that even though most do not fellowship together anymore, their response regarding GS is exactly what you have said above. Too many angry bitter people. I would have to imagine that a few [including JEFF] have been urging JAL to get envolved with GS, and that he eventually was convinced that there might be some small usefullness and agreed to though on a limited basis. After the initial responses he got, I would very much doubt whether he will return. I dont blame him.

sky4it: "I really didnt like (Galen's A CES member?) remarks to me." No I am not a member of CES. "(It reminds me of the same tactics of other groups, you = devil me = saint)" I did not do that either. "Accusing me of projecting anger fear and hatred." It did certainly sound that way, from giving JAL such greif for poking his head into GS. ". . .Certainly I will admit I could have used a few less adjectives, but that also makes you look less concerned about the topic than you really are." Thank you. "Why is it Raf, that when you disagree in principle with the obvious, that you get accused of degrading remarks (anger fear and hatred) in bountiful excess far greater than what you intended? Why does the paranoia (for lack of a better word) run so deep?" Perhaps it has to do with the degrading way in which you do it.

Danny: "Rascal it is what happenes to someone that is still hung up on pfal. they show their kind of love not Gods." I see, G-d would not want us to be loving to one another? G-d would not want us to give this guy a chance to explain what he does, Without ridicule? I was not aware that G-d ridicules his faithful followers so much, could you please, Dannny give us an example of where G-d ridicules a follower as a sign of love.

rascal: "Generally, when one cannot see the great good that is being accomplished here, or underestimates the value of participation....it is because they are still completely blinded by adherance to the doctrines of a man who participated in and promoted viley evil practices...may I offer your exway friends some q tips and lens cleaner in order to apreciate the beauty to be enjoyed here Galen?" I certainly see beauty here, what I also see is people giving this poor man a load a greif for his beleifs.

def59: "Why do you hang out in this "cesspool" is it because you just can't wash this stink away?" At times I do come across other standing beleivers here. Others who are doing their best to study the Word, Worship their Creator, follow their brother Jesus, and help others. Cant we just: Greet John, welcome him on-board and pray for him; as you would wish that we all did for you.

sky4it: "ok How exactly did I insult him? Would you feel better if I said Sig Heil to everything he said? No thanks. Been there done that with those types. I dont remember anyone bieng considerate and understanding to me when I turned a deaf ear to The Way Doctrines. I've got a problem with those doctrines. In my opinion, if John were considering what I said, he would thank me and call me his friend. But he wont discuss specifics, so thats his problem not mine. Personlly I dont like your tactics, trying to make me feel guilty for differentiating on things I disagree with. Did I tell John and you that you had anger, fear and hatred toward me because he disagrees with me? No I did not. So why don't you go and get over it." You say that you offer no insult, though you compare him to Hitler. Is that truly loving? Greet John, welcome him on-board and pray for him; as you would wish that we all did for you.

sky4it: "Galen: I aint angry at him, I dont hate him, and I dont fear him. I just simply disagree with him. As far as jumping on him goes, so what? Its a free country that our fathers fought for so we could think independently. So why dont you go beat your drum somewhere else" Fine then I am well within that same freedom to ask you to be nice, loving and accepting of John as he dips his toes into the GS waters. Greet John, welcome him on-board and pray for him; as you would wish that we all did for you.

Sky4it- “This is literal hogwash. Why is that that the ministry you received was greater by comparison than those around you? Why must you hyperventalate in such fashion to valid it? To me Mr. Lynn its the same ole Me Big , you Little arguement that TWI used to have and I am wondering why you still do this?” John is working full-time, trying to live by a solid set of ethics, and he is still studying G-d’s Word and teaching it. Why do you need to jump on him? You are projecting your anger, fear and hatred onto him. Whatever happened to you was a long time ago. Get over it. Did he say anything to insult you? Then why insult him. MJ- “unless it is all for the deep and abiding love he feels for us who he does not know and will pick and chose to answer only those who will identify themself.” From the response already, I fully understand why. Don’t you? I enjoy it here sometimes, but most other Ex-Wayers that are friends of mine don’t come here. Why? Because of the over-whelming negatives that swim in this cesspool. Why deal with this, if you have anything better to do with your time? Satori- “The Koolaid Stand is Open for Business at Greasespot!” Can’t you just be happy for the man, even if you don’t worship G-d along with us anymore? Comparing CES to the ‘People’s Temple’ is not very kind. “And look at the three (plus) CES Mouseketeers to this day, still wearing their Wayworld ears. They yet accept many fundamentally flawed premises, based on Papa Wierwille's authority ALONE. They've long forgotten the day they sold out, not to God, but to Vic. So have many of us.” So I take it that you don’t like CES. Too bad, they certainly are trying to be very loving. “The Corps was the worst of the lot. . . .” Okay fine, here you have me, I agree. “You will still find "TWI 1" anywhere you have a new group of Christians around the bible, before somebody gets a bright idea to organize them into a business model.” Through-out TWI-2 and TWI-3, we stayed in the TWI-1 mindset and ran our twigs accordingly. Up untio the last time I was thrown out (for owning some of Rev. Cummins’ and Lynn’s writtings). “Is CES' new name the beginning of the end? "The Spirit & Truth International" not only stinks with dubious ambition, it's absurdly close to "The Way International." I wonder if they aren't in preliminary merger talks with New Knoxville already. The apple doesn't fall far from the (Way) tree, does it?” So negative, I must say. 1000- “Are you going to use the Nuremburg defense for this one (I vuz just following ordairs)? If you don't have the time to answer questions, you don't deserve the self ordained collar you wear.” I see that you are very welcoming, loving and just wanting to help a guy along aren’t you. ET1 (SS) Galen We still use PFAL in our fellowship.

MJ- “. . . . why do people want to get drunk or do drugs? I have been a little drunk relaxed you know a little loud and silly. but I would never go to the point of not knowing what I am doing or being able to safetly drive a car etc. I know after a while it can be physical , and that has to be oover come. alcohol is a depressant it just makes you sadder if it is to forget and I do not forget anything if I have a couple of beers so I do not get it.” I don’t drink and drive. In the Navy I learned that getting drunk and doing something usually gets you in trouble and gets you labeled “alcoholic”. They really trained us well. There are a lot of 'social-drinkers' but such are the young men. And they will get in trouble for their in-discretions. I am one of the old guys, who when we tie-up to a pier, sits down just off of the pier, maybe under a tree, with a brocery bag of fifths. (It is against regs to drink on the piers, or on-board, and I dont want to walk far. The farther you have to walk at night, the more likely you will stumble and trip over something. Once you need stitches, if you have alcohol in your system, then you need treatment. So the safest thing is to avoid the EM club, and avoid driving. Just walk to the end of the pier and sit under a tree, within full-sight of the sub). Beer is silly, it don’t do nothing. You ‘rent it’. Whiskey, Rum, vodka, Tequila, even ever-clear works much better. And I dont have to work for hours to get ‘there’. “why if alcohol is messing up your life why do you still drink?” Sometimes watching the news gets me so mad, or it could be anything; I have known so many good friends whose lives have been ....ed away. I was a part of ruining some good men’s lives, and I was a part of the mechanism that caused the deaths of many others. It does not take much for me to get ‘down’ and when I do, I just get angry. I get worked up, I shout and scream. Most of the time, I can focus on doing something. But at night, when things get quite I need help. I drink enough so that I can sleep. “is it your friends? that cant be it as many hide the problem and drink alone” I drink alone. So do many of my friends. So maybe you could say that 'really' we drink socially, just not together at the same time. We each drink seperately, all of us. “I do not think it is always self esteem issues where people are shy either snd need a drink to "open up". “ I don’t ‘feel’ right in social settings. I certainly have been in bars. But I just don’t feel comfortable in them. I feel like an ‘outsider’ whenever I walk into one. Even at my retirement party. I bought a keg and reserved the back room at the EM club at Capodichino Italy. Others who showed up, had a good time, some got drunk and danced, I poured. When in a ‘social’ settings, I feel like I need to be alert and aware of what is happening around me. In recent years, most of the time when I have been in bars I have been in uniform armed and have been on ‘duty’. “what is the attraction? what do you get from being drunk if you know it isnt something you want to do ?” When I get drunk it is something I want, and I want it right then and there. For me I guess it is mostly just to suppress the anger. Shelly- “can’t speak for others, but for me it was because it felt good. It sure as hell beat the alternative. Wasn’t happy and drinking helped me avoid dealing with that unhappiness.” Same here. “what is the attraction? what do you get from being drunk if you know it isnt something you want to do ?” Instant gratification. You don’t have to work for anything. You just drink and, BAM!, instant gratification.” Yeah.

I do hope that Katryna likes him. I prefer them rotisseried with lots of BBQ sauce. (that word does not look right, you know the slow spinning spit over a fire). We still have a few more.

This topic provides a good opportunity to consider, I would have to say that TWI providing to me everything that I would have expected. I liked PFAL, the over-whelming majority of twigs, the ability of self-study, and the greater usage of the Laity, wonderful opportunitys to minister those in need. Certainly it is a shame that those drawn to power were corrupted by that power, but then again we all knew that power corrupts.

Steve Lortz- “The problems CES (as opposed to TWI) has faced in the area of sex have been problems of legalism, rather than license. After John's divorce from Pat, he wasn't running around . . . He was agonizing over whether it would be sinful, for him as a divorced man, to ever date again.” That sounds like what we saw. “Yes, mj412, in their heart attitude, CES is still like TWI. Yes, they still err in the category of sex and marriage. But they aren't practicing the adultery that ran rampant in TWI. In that respect, they flip-flopped 180 degrees, to the exact opposite direction.” They err by not committing adultery, but rather because a leader agonizes over whether or not it would be right for him to re-marry? I would think it was a good thing, for a leader to stop and think and really be committed and in full support from the scriptures before he began any large undertaking. Would I be that agonized over the decision? No. But I am not him. Neither are you. To my observation, many of the CES crew are overly sensitized to the issue of spiritual-abuse and leadership taking un-due advantage over their congregants. That is okay. For my blood they are a little too overly-sensitive to the topic, but so what. MJ- “it just galls me to no end that ces will scream error out of one corner of their mouth to please the people with their white washed talk, yet continue on doing what they want regarding sex outside of marriage . to me the latter is far more damaging and worse on a soul who wants to believe in their leadership. in fact it is crushing.” Do you mean by taking a leave of absence from the ministry to enable a leader to court a possible future wife? I totally missed how that is “. . . far more damaging and worse on a soul who wants to believe in their leadership. in fact it is crushing.” Could you explain? Oldie- “How many different Christian denominations are there in the U.S., and how many of them may be accused of engaging in this type of activity, if one wishes to engage in that type of accusation? Most, if not all, I presume.” I agree. Raised a Baptist, spent time as a member of a Methodist church, currently we deal with Ana-Baptists (Mennonites) on occasion with our Homeschool curriculum. This does describe their dealings. I have debated this issue with Roman Catholic leaders over the years, and they tend to fully support and encourage the changing of doctrines to better blend in with society’s changing moars.

Tom- “. . . it really sounds like "leadership" became hard hearted and mean spirited as the years went on. Not ALL leadership, but certainly a majority.” Well said, thank you. “I am NOT corpse, and from my own personal experience the only people that I ever saw within TWI who did hurt others, or mis-use others, or get into a believer's face and scream was Way-Corpse-grads.” “That is truly a sad thing. See, I'm not disagreeing with you, I never have on that issue, I only disagree when you take that experience and then make the statement "ALL corps are". “ I don’t believe that I said ‘ALL’. From my personal experiences the only people I ever saw do a WC on a believer was Way-Corpse-grads. I certainly never met ‘all’ WC; I truly don’t think that I would have ever wanted to. Nor do I know whether ‘all’ WC hurt others, or mis-used others, or got into a believer's face and screamed; thus I did not say that ‘all’ WC did such. From my personal experiences ‘only’ WC did such however. Consider the two sub-sets. There are believers I will call set ‘B’, within set ‘B’ are some nice people and some not-nice, some who need help and some who help others. If we then introduce a second sub-set I will call set ‘WC’, in it what do we see? The above listed behaviors? Certainly. From among set ‘WC’ are exists a smaller sub-set, called ‘WC whom I have met, or dealt with’. Now are there others in set ‘WC’ that I have never dealt with? Certainly. However from within sub-set ‘WC whom I have met, or dealt with’ All those behaviors are present at least to a 90 percentile. “ “ When I have stated this on Greasespot Cafe, I have been amazed at the out-lash from many posters here. “ “ “The "outlash" you speak of that I've seen was for taking your personal experience with some Corps and carte blanche applying it to ALL corps.” Some, but no not all. Anytime that anything is said in truth and honesty, which tarnishes WC, (at least in previous posts) there are responses from many who take those posts personally amusing that it was describing them. “I think you'd agree that applying your personal experience with individuals across every individual in the program doesn't make it true or fair.” Fine, my sampling was taken from 1981 through to 2001, in 3 different nations, and numerous states and cities through out America. It was a very limited sampling. “I can certainly see why you personally have an ill feeling towards Corps people, it's based upon your experience and it's human nature to think that way. I'm thinking that a large number of the active posters here who were corps would not fall into that category.” Very well. “ “ That Oh, no they were not responsible for their actions, and ALL the abuse was from VPW / LCM.” “ “Really? That is what you "heard" from those discussions? I guess something got lost in communication. You know I participated in (and read) many of the discussions you speak of. I really do not recall anyone ever saying, "they were not responsible for their actions". What I do remember people trying to communicate was "they learned these behaviors from VPW & LCM." And I think the reason (JMO) that people kept focusing on the aspect that they learned how to act from VPW & LCM was because of a perception that you hold VPW in such high esteem.” “At least that's where I was coming from (and I think a lot of others were as well). We couldn't understand your statements blanketing ALL Corps with a high level of disdain while perceiving that you still held VPW in such high esteem. I don't ever think anyone said "Corps were not responsible for their actions", if they did they're wrong. What I heard being said was "they learned the behavior at the feet of "the teacher" and his successor.” And were following those examples regardless of what they read and studied from the Bible. “I notice that you no longer have "University of Life Grad" in your signature.” I was PT’ed that it offended others. ” “ My exposure was fairly limited having only been a follower of TWI for 18 years.” “ “I'm thinking you want people to take this as a sarcastic comment.” Could be, while I was involved with TWI over a long period of time, I also had very limited contact with the inner-workings at HQ, and WC assignments, and policies, etc. Was I an ‘innie’? Was I a long-term follower? These are terms that open to perspective. I don’t think that mine was such an ‘unusual’ life. Perhaps here, now among GS’ers there are very few bubble-heads, there are a few more veterans however. From my perspective, twigs on military bases were often really hopping, Lots of classes, and lots of twigs. Like many other service members, I traveled and could call Ohio to get a local number for a close twig, anywhere I went. Whether I was going to be in a place for a 5-day school, a 2day port call, a 6-month school, or a 3-year tour. To you this is ‘un-usual’? Fine. That was the ministry that I was a part of. In a given area, if you were there at the right time (or wrong time) you might catch a limb meeting, and would end up bringing new guys to it. There we would see WC. Otherwise in most cases, we could walk into twigs in most areas and never see one. “... maybe that's why you were able to put up with it for so long.” That and I really enjoyed coordinating twigs, running PFAL classes, and helping people. “ “ Though I have been forced to be more apologetic as anytime we speak the truth about how Way-Corpse-Nazis hurt the body-of-Christ it does offend them so.” “ “Galen, I don't think anyone wants to "force you to be more apologetic"... I think (as I've stated a few times above) that EXCorps get offended when you use the ALL word.” Fine. “I think a lot of folks here respect you and your opinions. I know that I do. Part of the reason I've been able to gain that respect is through reading your experiences. You share your experience.” Which was a large part of what Coordinating a twig was all about. We study the Bible; we share what we have studied. When we have attempted applying what we have learned and have gained experiences, we share those experiences too. “That often entails relating some aspect of the military because that was a part of your life. I think it's much the same for EXCorps. It was a part of their life. Much the same way you cannot share a story without mentioning that you were "on base" or "under the sea" they cannot share a story either without saying "when in residence" or "when on staff". It's the perception.” Very well. “If you want to think they're setting themselves apart "carry(ing) with them the 'identity' of being separate from an average believer" because they mention these things, so be it. I guess if I had the mindset that ALL Corps were bad, that "the only people that I ever saw within TWI who did hurt others, or mis-use others, or get into a believer's face and scream was Way-Corpse-grads" I'd probably "read" things into what they post as well.” Hmm, could be. Again, I don’t mean that ‘ALL’ WC were bad, only maybe 90% of those that I have had contact with. That is not all, just the over-whelming majority, but not all. Bonnie and I can name four that seemed to be trying to be good Christians. Certainly from reading here on GS, and the previous version of GS, it would appear that none here were of that type. “Do you consider this an "outlash"? I sincerely hope not.” Don’t at all. I am rather surprised actually that yours was the only response so far. Bless you.

dmiller: " "Limited exposure, with 18 years involvement??" Hmmm. OK -- I'll take you at your word for that, but I will also have to agree about the hierarchy espoused by twi." I have often been told on GS that my exposure to TWI was limited over a short period of time, which accounts for my one-sided view of Way-Corpse-Nazis. I found that being in the 'University of Life' as well as career military did not even slow down the recruitment efforts at the 'annual limb meeting'/'Corpse recruitment drive's that occured each year. I was routinely accused of ignoring G-d's desire for my life, by not going Corpse. "I was never corps, but _did_ get into University of Life. Because of that fact, others looked up to me as one who _"could of been Corps"_, but had sufficient reason to not enter the program "at this time". " Again not really sure if we ever saw this phenominum, occur. "And twi did it's best to "alienate" folks by labels, and did so very effectively." I have seen beleivers blasted for purchasing wonderful 'dove' pins or rings, as they looked too much like the Way-Corpse-Grad rings. "I currently work at a group home where I am "staff", . . . ." Keep up the good work, glad to see another beleiver trying to help others. Thank you for your efforts. [about two nights ago, we got a call from far away, Bonnie and I both had some U-of-L notebooks out reviewing and searching . . . . Going over: Romans and Ephesians. What fun. Still valuable material for us.]

Outin88!: "Thanks for the info Galen. . . " Anytime. "We were thinking more on buying a older home with a little land in a small town. But building a place, that sounds interesting, I'll think on that." There exist many many many homes for sale in Maine, I found 2 realtors that each really tried to help me. If you have difficulty in your search for good ones, I will gladly refer you to either of these. One is in Belfast and focuses on homes along the coast and mid (Augusta - Bangor - Belfast area). The other is in Houlton and focuses on stuff Bangor and North, but is very knowledgible of stretching out East and West pretty far. I found both of these guys to be very easy to work with and not pushy at all.

personalentertainr: "I went through one year of the 10th Corps and then went through the entire Corps program and graduated 14th Corpse." You were in both the 10th Corpse and the 14th corpse? ". . . I had a brain tumor. I've had 3 surgeries for it" hope you are better now, and keep up on your check-ups. ". . . and discovered that much like my resume during the Corps years, I had nothing to brag about when we left the ministry in 2001." Not following here, why would being in the corpse automatically be a bad thing for your resume? If you traveled and held various jobs, that is not unlike ladder climbing in many corporations. "I had never considered going on SS because I hate the idea of a limited income." Do you have the option on 'going on SS'? Are you over 65? a SSA check is kind of 'limited' in the context that it is a single amount (though different for each person), but kind of like my pension check. I get a deposit in an account each month as part of my pension. It is 'limited' and only goes up each January with the 'cost of living'. But that does not stop me from doing other things. My investments pay me about $1500 each month, and that does not go up (because I dont want to raise the rent on our renters). It is a 'limited' amount, also. I dont see the issue with 'limited' amounts. Could you explain? "I expect by Christmas to have a residual income of about $2000.00 a month. At which time, I will retire from social security. What a country!" Good luck, let us know how it goes. Do you mean that you will retire ON SSA? In saying that you want to retire FROM SSA do you mean that you want to stop paying into your SSA account and cancel it? That is done with a form SA-4 I have assisted others while doing it, if you have questions.

GeorgeStGeorge- Very good, sir. ". . . and have a LOT of valuable comic books." Remember to do a Schedule 'C' on them (comic books are a good business, both as a write-off and investment) and store them in plastic, protected from light, fire and water.

Cowgirl- There exist wierd connections within the brain. I was once having 'attacks' wherein I lost eye-sight for periods of 5 seconds up to 15 seconds. These 'attacks' were once a week, and then increased to everyother day. The diagnosis? An inner-ear infection. I was given an antibiotec and shown how to administer it myself through my sinuses to get it into my ear ducts. My point? We just never know what causes anything, until a doctor can look us over.