Galen

Belle- “Galen you ARE special and not in a short bus kind of way. You crack me up! Thanks for the giggle this morning.” Your welcome. “Kind of weird sounds like kind of an understatement.” Yeah maybe, but that was a long time ago, and since then I have done far weirder-er things. “I think that's where some of the differences of opinion on here come from. For some it was just a church, for others it was the "end all and be all" Could be. Skyrider- “And no, Galen.....I don't think you are "goofy"......maybe a little naive, but not "goofy." Hmm, I don’t know which is better, goofy or na?. Chas- “what about the damn dress codes for the meetings? I think I went weeks at a time (3 classes total in Rome City - 1 worked, 2 as a student) without wearing blue jeans.” Well at least they did not require buns and bonnets. :-)

Schwaigers: "Here's a question for you. The Bible allows for divorce in situations of adultery and fornication, right? So ... what is fornication?" Like saying tan and light-brown, same thing just two different words. Adultery being someone fornicating someone else' wife, or daughter [any female that you have not paid for]. The reason for divorce in the Old Testament was: Deuteronomy 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. See? it does not say adultery and fornication. It was commonly taught by leaders, both then and now that it means cases of adultery [meaning that the wife had sex with someone other than her husband]. Anytime you mess with that which belongs to another, you are in the wrong. In the case of a female not your wife, you owed her father or husband a price, if they did not stone you first. :-)

There does exist a few groups who beleive that only if you beleive that that you are mortal and must one day face a supreme being, can you be trusted. Since if you beleive that there is no rewards or penaltys for bad behavior then you can not be trusted. Since you obviously don't care about your behavior here. If you beleive that you will one day face your creator, then you can be trusted to keep your word and to try and act within 'due-bounds'. I belong to a few such 'groups'. :-)

Belle-the-sweet-and-wonderful: "I took cookies to our new neighbors and introduced myself." That sounds sweet "I baked and brought yummy cheeseballs and hot coffee to a dog competition this week-end because many people were camping out and did not have access to these kinds of goodies. I also volunteered my time to help in quite a few ways because they were short-handed." That sounds wonderful. "I volunteer my database skills for free to a group that desperately needed my help. I’ve stopped on the side of the road to loan my cell phone or a ride to people who have been broken down several times in the past few months. I’ve met some really nice, neat people this way. I type my neighbor's chuch group agenda and other paperwork each week for her." Great ! ! ! "Do these count?" I should hope so. :-)

Really? Is that what it takes to sell a house? I dont think that it would interest me. I did buy a house once that had a grape-vineyard out back :-) But never bought a house that came with one of those .

Sounds nice, have fun. suz: "check out the yellow submarine..." Or while at Pearl Harbor go see the submarine museum [they have an old deiseil boat open for tours] and go on over to Ford Island and tour a nuclear sub. Hoorah :-) There is a Polineasan Cultural center [okay I know I did not spell that correctly, sorry], sponsored by the LDS, that is really good. They are open all day and you walk around through mock villiages of each sub-culture within Polynesia, then at night they do a big dinner show. It is wonderful. I stay at the Hali-Koa on Waikiki, when out that direction. It is really nice. Have fun.

I agree. All that stuff about women being little and helpless and innocent is hog-wash. In the military, everyone has seen 'Beverly Hillbillys' and KNOWS that little'ol Granny can pick-up a broom and just whomp on big'ol Cousin Jethro. Little has nothing to do with it. They can be MEAN !!! Because they are aliens. I used to compete in Foil-fencing and currently I coach a high-school fencing team. The guys have a hard time trying to reconcile it all. Girls are supposed to be sugar and spice and ..., but give them a weapon and training and they will kick your butt. Guys think that they can just pick-up a foil and instantly fence, and maybe with other un-trained guys they can. Even after a year of training, when the guys are beginning to get okay, put them into a bout with a girl and the damage is done. Females are alien. Guys think defense and act to defend themselves, or they think offense and they attack; to train to do both is difficult. The dexterity of mind to be 'doing' both offense AND defense, does not come naturally to most guys. But there is this alien being around that does do both, at the same time. Now fortunately in our society, girls seem to be commonly taught to be non-fighting [thankfully]. So when a girl first goes into a match, she usually freaks out at seeing the point of her opponent's foil so close to her face. Females often have a hard time, over-coming that point being so close to them. So the big hurdle is to train them to look beyond the enemy's weapon, and to focus on the enemy you want to hurt. Yes I have read the book of this topic, years ago. I have read better books. My take on physcology is that each may be a good theory, but only while within it's narrow field. We humans are highly complex and multi-faceted. We each combine multiple personalitys, and we blend them. We can take on the face of a child, when dealing with our parents. We each put on the face of a parent when dealing with our children. As a technician I no doubt think and act entirely different from how I am thinking when I cook, or massage my wife's back, etc. The Mars verses Venus conflict is valid, but only within a narrow parameter, as we are far too complex. :-)

skyrider: "Galen.......yeah, I would agree with that. Year after year, the Advanced Class changed! Back in the 70s, there were LOTS of tapes on various healings, deliverance stories, non-twi ministers who had cast out devil spirits, etc. Wow, I must be on a run here, everyone is agreeing with me. Cool. Lets try this one: I have a private little theory that I will share with you. But just Skyrider and Belle-the-wonderful. I remember once sitting in a hall [maybe for the AC-special, I dont know] and they had these banners up on the walls. One banner for each past year, and they all had that one year's theme on them. Going way back a long time. The themes were like: "love", or "giving", or "healing", or "Forgiveness", or "Grace". And I remember sitting there and wondering, Wow if everyone's teachings for a whole year were somehow related to one of those topics, what a great fellowship everyone would have. There would be hundreds of Bible verses and contexts that could be read from, and everyone would be seeing great examples of how to be a family together and to love each other. But at the time we were in these annual-themes like: "The pimple on Moses nose that itched on Thursdays" or some foolishness. Big huge long sentences that are No Where to be found in the Bible. I could no more find verses on them, then you could catch a greased pig. My theory is that when some bonehead decided to begin using themes that were NOT fruits of the spirit, or attributes of loving kindness; that is when things went down hill. Because everyone [including those in-residence] were no longer being re-focused each week on those great themes. So what do you think, am I goofy? "I know that I wasn't the ONLY grad out there who tried to stop the LEAVENING PROCESS." Good. "I couldn't stand the big meetings! Being FAR AWAY FROM HQ was the best place to be!!!" It is what worked for us. "By the late 80s and early 90s.....the advanced classes were an all-out assault on promoting the corps program!!!!!!!" As were the annual Limb Meetings. I remember beleivers sharing with each other what verses to bring out, and what to say when we were to be confronted for why we had not signed up to go Corpse. As soon as the meetings would break-up and every stood to stretch, they would start. Some punk corpse-grad you never saw before would walk up and they started up with that: "Well, G-d told me, that your supposed to be going into the Corpse", or "Why dont you want to do G-d's Will and go into the corpse". :-)

Belle: "Dear, Galen. :)--> You must have done and continue to do so many wonderful things for God for how much he protected you in TWI." I try. "I LIVE on the computer." Does it keep you warm? I worked on mainframe computers onboard submarines but they were kept at 55 degrees so they were a little cool, I had to wear a sweater. But today's PCs do give off noticible warmth. :-) "I know YOU'RE used to it, but YOU'RE special." I'm SPECIAL :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> I'm SPECIAL :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> ;)--> ;)--> ;)--> ;)--> ;)--> I'm SPECIAL ;)--> ;)--> ;)--> ;)--> ;)--> I'm SPECIAL A cute babe said that I'm SPECIAL. If only I could encrypt music with my little song, but how cares she said I'm SPECIAL. You know some times people say that "He is special" and they really mean special like Special-Ed kind of special; but she dont mean that. She means that she thinks I'm SPECIAL :-) "... I remember hearing people from previous classes talking about their inspections and one couple got in trouble for putting their wet towel in the wrong place." On one sub that I lived onboard, they made this policy that everytime we were walking between our bunkrooms and the showers we had to wear a towel, so I wore mine flung over my shoulder. Cause I'm SPECIAL! "I remember feeling rather uncomfortable that someone was coming into my room and had access to my "stuff" when I wasn't there. Furthermore, I dreaded lunch time to have to hear about those who failed inspection and praying it wasn't me." Oops sorry about that, if I contributed to your feelings of uncomfort, I apologize. "I think guys grow up sharing bathrooms and showers so it's no big deal to them, but women do everything privately growing up and sharing something like that is extremely uncomfortable for the more modest women." Could be, even in public restrooms, the men's urinals are mounted up on a wall, no privacy. Like a McDonalds in France, no stalls, no doors to the restroom. Kind of kewl tht they sell beer with their hamburgers but, I once sat at a booth across the aisle from the entrance into the restroom and then got stuck by others sitting at my booth. Eating a burger while people are on the commode looking at you is kind of weird. I once went to a restroom, it was up a flight of stairs, the stairs came up into the center of the room, so the urinals were 'mounted' against the handrails. So to use a urinal you faced the stairwell, anyone coming up the stairs, would first see you as they passed the level of your shoes, then advancing as they continued up the stairs. It was weird, but then as I focused on my mission and went to leave the restroom, was when I noticed that round the exterior walls of the room were mounted the commodes. Again no stalls, and this was a Co-Ed restroom. [Ever watch the movie Das Boot? at the end the boat pulls alongside of a pier at the end of which is a series of concrete 'sub-pens'. That base is Brest France. The Co-Ed restroom was upstairs from the cafeteria on that base.]

Hmm, I don't know what to answer. I was 'booted' multiple times, in multiple areas by different people. [for details see my profile] So lets see; booted in 1982, so that is like 23 years ago. Then again in 1992-ish, so that is around 13 years ago. Then this last time was in 1997, so that is only 8 years ago. Can I answer 8, 13, and 23? :-)

Or try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TWI-1/ Whereas: "The Way Ministry International: a Biblical Research, Teaching and Fellowship ministry; recognizing that 'TWI' has changed their doctrines in recent decades, we hold fast to their original doctrines. Thus we are 'TWI-1'. Followers together of 'The Way', our risen Lord Christ Jesus." "I would like to hear about anything you are studying, and I wish to share with you as I study various areas of scripture. As we research, teach, and fellowship together." "I recall a time when TWI was about us each studying the Bible on our own doing our own research. Then we were able to freely share that research with others, teaching them what we had learned. Sharing our time, our experiences, and worshipping our Heavenly Father together in fellowship with one another." :-)

skyrider: "Imagine NOW...going to a corporate seminar or "class" and be treated like this????" I have attended seminars for State-licensed foster-parents, where we had a similiar end result [the entire weekend filled with multiple classes and no time for 'outside' newspapers]. "Obviously, the indoctrination process is highly effective when variables are controlled and isolating the individual over a period of time." 'Period of time' intermediate class took a day, Advanced class took 2 weeks [i think?}. In bootcamp, I was locked away in isolation for months. "Respectfully, I see why pfal-apologists rarily post on threads like this...." Hi. "... a believer is NOT complete until ..." From what I experienced and observed it was commonly thought that a beleiver was not 'complete' until they had graduated from the Corpse. At least that was the impression that I got from all those 'ring-knockers'. :-) Skyrider- "Help me out here with some of the details......but if I remember correctly, the original pfal class version included three more hours, handling all three of the "worship manifestations." With this format, the new student was instructed on speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues and prophecy (in a believer's meeting). Right? Well, it was too much for new students.....too much information to grasp in one class, or so I was told." Yes, that does seem to be about right. From what I have seen, it does appear that rolling the 'intermediate' topics in with the beginning topics, might well be a little 'too much'. "In the Advanced Class, we were told to memorize the definitions of the nine manifestations. Much time was spent on outlining these definitions......and release group sessions were in place to stage a time for reinforcement. With these definitions and subjects like "the myth of the six million"...and "the marxist minstrels"...and the illuminati....and conspiracy theories....and seed of serpent overthrows......we learned the advanced class indoctrination that vpw presented." From my impression, it did appear that each year's AC 'focused' on something a little different. I dont recall so much about the six-million but then again I was raised a Baptist so it was all old news to me. "the marxist minstrels" may have been mention but I dont recall today what that topc even is. "illuminati" sure it seems to me that every denomination needs to throw that one in, being a freemason, I hear it everywhere. Those 16 keys, I do recall a song that listed them. And in my room at the AC, I did recieve a poster that showed them [it is in our bathroom wall today]. But most others did not get the poster, different posters were in each room, so we each got something different. I remember first reading it over, because it was NOT taught in the AC that I sat through. So again I think that many of these things may have changed each year. :-) Belle- "We were cut off from all radio, tv, newspaper and any other outside world influences. We had our rooms inspected to make sure they were clean and tidy enough. We learned how to shower with a bunch of other women. TOTALLY new experience for me. One of my roommates would get up at 4am just to avoid having to shower with all the other women." Again being 'cutoff' is not something that I would normally notice, as through my career I have been utterly cut-off from all outside news sources for months at a time. Room inspections? I should think that I woudl recall that one. Perhaps did someone totally make a mess of their room, so in knee-jerk reaction they decide to hold daily "inspections"? I know that I never 'learned' to shower with a group of women :-) [where do I sign-up?] Did you ever take any gym classes in school? college? "And, I remind myself that wierwille was 58 years old or so when the Advanced Class was filmed in 1975. He knew how the manipulate and indoctrinate the youth" Yes he had formal training, as did my pastor in my home-town as a child. :-)

rascal: "People were hurt, people died by adherance to twi doctrine, and abuse from it`s top leaders. By supporting/participating in twi, it could be argued that one is turning a blind eye to the suffering of our brothers and sisters in Christ." Supporting and participating in the abuse of fellow beleivers, should be well considered as guilty. Though it would appear that many did such. I do beleive that I actively fought such, and tried my best to minister to people's needs. At the time, I thought that such was what EVERYONE was doing. "That is where the parallell between twi and hitler is aplicable." No need to end it with Hitler. What about when our nation enters a religous war, not just stepping into the middle to try and 'end' the violence, but rahter to take a side and to actively defend one side of a religous war. A war that has raged for centurys, in fact. Lets go one further and say that our government decides to side with the Muslims in this religous war, to pursue and kill Christians. For no more reason than because of their religous faith and the fact that they are fighting Muslims. I have always spoken out for the rights of beleivers in the Way, and it got me grief, but I have never felt guilty of hurting fellow beleivers while fellowshiping with The Way. Rather I have hurt chirstians, but it was in the Kosovo theater.

I have no doubts that it was G-d who called me to The Way International. Does that mean that such a calling is for the rest of my life? No matter what changes I go through? or what changes that ministry goes through? I see no dis-honour in separating myself from a ministry that I was once called to. G-d brought me there for a reason, to learn, to grow, and to minister to others. I did, I have, and now I continue to do so [simply without their 'aid']. :-) I have no doubt that many others were also called to The Way International. Can not we all continue to grow in Christ?

hmm, this apartment building cost us about $120k and it's taxes are around $5k/year. So I would think that a newer building worth say $500,000 would likely be billed around $20k/annum. [here in Connecticut] Our California property's taxes come out of the escrow account, sorry. :-)

I generally agree with most things in PFAL. That is why we lead twigs and ran PFAL classes, that is why we still run PFAL classes [whenever we have people in our fellowship who desire it]. I am not convinced that it is 'perfect', nor am I convinced that anything is. Other than perhaps that 'perfect pure' Word from God as He intended us to hold, but that has since gone through multiple-translations and copies. :-) I do think that it can be a really good starting point though.

Is it really that important to consider exactly what a 'pure' jew fully adherent to the Laws of Moses, would do today? Rather: W.S.I.D. [What should I do? as a Son of God and Brother of Jesus?} :-)

hmm, what I do with a boob, is probably not something that I should print here. ;-)

"Often ministering to people is just: listening to their problems, helping out when they need help, hosting a dinner, tuning a car, sharing a cookbook, babysitting a child, or maybe showing what you have been reading from the Scripture, maybe if someone has a question taking it first to the Lord in prayer and then showing them how to perform a word-study on the topic." So what have folks been doing to minister unto others lately? I have recently began coaching my son's highschool fencing team, and I help out at the Vet center.... Next?

CKnapp3: "Since you believe that Mary is NOT the Mother of God, then you have to admit that the son of Mary is now dead, seeing that Mary is the mother of a mortal." a. Mary is not the mother of G-d, b. she is now dead so her son must be dead? I dont see that leap, at all. Please explain. Mary is dead. Jesus did die. He later got up again and is now sitting on the Right hand of G-d, as both the Bible and PFAL told us. :-)

MATILDA- "Many times "manifestations" were a real inspiration and blessing..and I took them with a big grain of salt. Many times in a meeting, when .... I was called on to do so. I always did. And it was never made up...it was instant and honest, to the point and right from the heart. Whether it was inspiration, in spirit action, or whatever, I always just gave it to God and acted immediately. What always blew my mind was that it was easy to relinquish whatever baggage I walked in with...and let God move in me to do as He pleased, and believingly, hopefully, lovingly let those words flow. I am not a phony, nor am I delusional. It was always a personal affirmation to me, that I was not just making things up...I spoke as the Spirit moved me to do so...and I don't mean that in some supersilious religious way." I agree entirely. This has been 100% my experience with SIT. "God is no piker and a fool to be trifled with. I think He works with us where ever our hearts are ripe to receive Him." True. My bestest 'awakening' from our expereinces with TWI, has been the sheer numbers of leadership who here on Greasespot Cafe have openly admitted that the whole time their SIT was made-up and false. Such would have never occured to me, to ever have faked, or made-such up, or to recite something. But I have said this many times previously, and likely will say it again. So many who held leadership positions, who taught others, who lead others, who were looked up to, and were yet themselves putting on a false-front. Matilda, I am glad that you held your heart pure. I am glad that there were a few of us who studied God's Word, put it on in our lives, and did our best to minister to others without 'faking' it. Bless you. :-)

Hey hawk- good to see you again. :-) Ckeer- We did learn a lot from the Thresher and from the Scorpion, it is a shame that it took losing so much to grasp the need for quality control, but it did. Hawk and I both are alive today in part because of the lessons learned from those earlier losses. Just as how so many died during early cancer treatments, so that today we know more and many can be healed.

My3Cents: "I think the way to strengthen marriage is to make divorce easier, and less painful especially to children." In many states divorce is very easy now. If it is not easy then a quick trip to a jurisdiction where it is easy, and your divorce will be put into your hand. A marriage from any jurisdiction will usually be recognized in every other jurisdiction, jsut as they also recognize a divorce. Growing up in California, they had very strict laws, but people made quick trips to Reno or to Mexico for instant marriages or divorces, and those had to be recognized by California. From what I have seen a quick trip to Mexico to get a legal divorce, then your preped to go back to your home state for a judge to award alimony and child-support, to be enforced by the IRS and SSA. Recent changes in the laws allow that as soon as your behind in support, the SSA notifys your home state and: your vehicle registrations are canceled, your driver's license is canceled and your passport is canceled. So if your job requires you to drive, forget it. We have a local friend [not in our fellowship] who has his children, but his ex-wife is still wanting to get child-support [even though she does not have the children]. While they try to get it straightened out in the courts, he has lost his driver's license and vehicle registrations. All due to the 'Patriots Act'. :-)

Belle: "Would anyone care to weigh in on this issue? Please." I dont know the answer to this. Sorry. I have seen so many devorces over the years. I can not begin to count how many desertions I have seen. I dont think that I have ever gone to sea without at least 3 desertions, while we were under. The wives commonly run up and max-out all credit cards, they stop paying rent and car payments, they spend all the sailor's pay checks, and they run to another state, filing for devorce telling the judge that their husbnad is not around, so the judge bangs a gavel and when we surface, in the pile of mail is devorce decree and notices of alimony back-payment. We get home and the guys will commonly no longer have their home that had bought, their car, their clothing, and crdeit cards will be maxed and the back-child-support will usually be more than the sailor makes. I have tried to counsel these guys. Loaned them my couch to sleep on while trying to track down their belongings. Once I recall, the wife had left their children with the state, while she ran off with a new boyfriend. Imagine a fahter trying to get his children back from the state, when he no longer has his house, or car, or bank accounts, and huge alimony. A lot of married people do try to fully live up to their vows, it does not help when one spouse deserts. I have probably been envolved [as a pastor and counselor] in close to a hundred devorces, most of them were desertions, a few envolved the sailor being adulterous. I am not aware of any of them envolving the man being physically abvusive. Not to say that it did not happen but rather that in those cases perhaps the sailor did not come to me for help. I have seen a few where the wife was abusive.

Yeah that sounds about right. Right before it happened the ocean floor dropped off to deeper depths, so you would 'logically' think that you have more leg room, but no. that dern old lady slaps you in the face, witha sea mount that just was not there the last time anyone came through this area to map things. :-) Guys slammed into equipment and panels so hard that they break their legs, papers, books and blood everywhere. But no equipment broke lose. LOL Milspec on most equipment requires that equipment mounts must withstand 6Gs. Can you imagine what the messdecks looked like? It also sounds like they managed to get up to the surface without pulling any huge angles, that is good. When a boat looks like such a total mess, then pulling a 40 degree up angle, really tends to slide things around and make a lot more injuries.