Galen

I recently finished reading 'Angels and Demons'. In it is given a fairly detailed description of what all goes on immediately following a Pope's demise. A really good book by the way :-)

She got to the hospital after midnight tuesday, but the baby was admitted into intensive care Wednesday, when the mohter was released? Does sound odd, to me. On the other hand, there is no reference to anything actually being wrong with the baby.

Sunesis: "We all know through history, the woman was always considered "property" of the man - father, brother, husband when she married. It wasn't until this century that woman even got the right to vote." LOL It is still common to hear: "who gives this woman, to this man?" In the absense of exchanging money for property, she is now 'given' away. But it is still expected to be the bride's father or previous husband, who 'gives' her to her next owner. In some cultures the bride is given gold bracelets, the bracelets are to be her property, to purchase her devotion. Here a gold ring is given instead of the bracelets. It is still "a ring of gold: a precious metal in the form of a circle to symbolize the eternity for which the pledge of the bonds of marriage stand for." heh heh heh :-) [can you tell that I've done a few?]

One fraternity that I belong to does a scholarship program. When I was stationed in Washington state, they gave away a single $1,000/year scholarship to one graduating high-school senior for each and every highschool through-out the state. Those scholarships continue for as long as the student stays in college. The work just of going around to each high-school and interveiwing all entries, and then deciding which student to award the scholarship to at each high-school; was a LOT of work. Tonnes of money is needed, and lots of time to interview the applicants. We even did an award dinner, each awardee was allowed to bring their parents and one teacher. It turned out to be a HUGE dinner. We were divided up so at least one member of the fraternity sat at each table with all those awardees. Running something like that is a huge job.

Sudo: "You really think so?? Her real lips?? Hmmm... " WOW Those are HUGE !!! I dont 'get' the urge to have fat lips. I do recall hering a saying among sailors: "She looks so good, only one way that her face would look any better, that is with her lips wrapped around my d--k" Could it be that such a common vulgarity, could be at the heart of this trend?

What? that we're all relatives?

I have traveled pretty far North, been jsut about to the farthest North a guy can travel. Never actually made it to the Pole. But they tell me that once you're at the pole, ever direction is then South. I would think that every direction would be darn cold.

Have you and your children looked at Pell Grants? If parents are 'wealthier' they are expected to pay college tuition expenses for their children, even when those children are in their thirties. If parents are 'poorer' they dont have to pay for college, as doors of grants open. The less a couple makes, the more grants become available. If you want your children to be able to freely go to any college, one thought is to earn less money starting one year prior to their admission to college. In 2001, when our eldest son started college, we paid a portion of his tuition. Until the grants kicked in. Then they paid for his tuition, they put $500 into his college bookstore account for 'expenses' [but even then his books did not cost that much maybe $300, which he got 2/3 back at the end of each semester]. I dont earn enough, so the grants have kicked in and they pay for all his expenses. We did look at sending him out to California, as the colleges are so much cheaper to attend. Rather then keeping him here in Conn, where living expenses are so high.

LOL I find it amazing that: 1- I see drop-dead gorgeous ladies on the streets every now and again. 2- I see pictures of movie-stars when on the street, and commonly they look terrible. My assumption is that movie-star ladies are normal average looking women, who require hours of make-up and primping to look good. I dont get why they dont 'pick' ladies who look great naturally. I dont understand. I am confused.

waterbuffalo: "Well, Mr. P., that was sure a long time before Christ. Gee, then why don't we go back to an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth? You hurt me, I hurt you the same way back, then we are even. That makes a lot of sense" Not so long really. It had simply gotten out of fashion, in large part. Still around but not as popular during Jesus' ministry era. The OT guidlines setup the 'rules' governing households and duties, which included such. Jesus had plenty of oportunity to address the issue, as did Paul; but G-d did not direct either to do so. It was not like there was any real doctrine or laws against it, not until many centuries later [A.D.] :-)

oldiesman: " ... if you stayed in twi for 20 years and didn't have love, joy, peace, and those spiritual goodies working in your life, I think you most certainly wasted your time and twi wasn't for you. Geeze, why else would one go to twig and fellowship unless it was a pleasant, profitable experience? Had to be something there of significant satisfaction to keep folks coming back for more." Makes sense to me. I dont think that we would have stayed with it, had it not been for the love in the fellowships. The joy and re-joicing with beleivers, operating in peace and harmony, being surrounded by the fruit from everyone's lives, it was great. Otherwise I can't imagine staying. Would not have made sense to stay. It was very pleasant and profitable, for us as well as for most everyone that fellowshipped with us. I can't imagine anyone coming back a second time, if they were not satisfied with what they experienced in our homes. "...it was the promise of the spiritual death that awaited us if we departed that kept many of us involved." I can't imagine, nor recall every hearing such or saying such in any fellowship that happened in a twig of mine. That junk only come from the WC, later on. Whoever in our twig that did get the SNS tapes, would listen to them and we would ask every week if there was any good news, any events, any new thing. But that was why we rarely if ever played a SNS tape for the twig. We were hessitant to bring new people to Limb funcitons also. I most distinctly recall while in Scotland, we made the mistake of taking new people to Gartmore a couple of Sundays. But it was terrible, it took all the following week to calm and explain everything. Those at Gartmore were friendly and helpful, but it was never anything that un-initiated folks could hear. Any Twig Coordinator who brought that other junk into his twig, may have been making a serious mistake. As a Twig Coordinator we were to protect and build and succour those within the fellowship.

sharon: "ok..i have been sitting here thinking... and thinking...(which occasionally is painful)" But you do such a wonderful job of it. "Here are some hard facts 75,000,000 (yep million) American's do not have a bank account couldn't if they tried.. for whatever reason, and the Privacy Act is making it even harder to get one (don't believe me ask any woman who's been divorced and remarried u must now prove every name u have had) What we do is allow an entire segment of working people get by, ..." I recently had to re-register a car. The state's DMV had burped and 'canceled' the old plates. So in I go. As of 1January they no longer accept military ID cards as a photo-ID. And I can not do any business in the DMV without a local driver's license. [prior to 1Jan military ID-cards were 'good', and any valid driver's license was 'good'] So to re-register my car [which still had a 'good' tax-sticker], I had to get a new driver's license. But wait my old driver's license was issued in another state and did not have a photo on it. So I give them my old Driver's license and my military ID [which has a photo]. Nope the military-ID is no good anymore. So I bring in my passport. To accept my old driver's license they need to attach with it a valid photo from another valid ID. So they wnat to cut-out the picture from my passport to attach it to my license, so they can send it in to the naitonal database. Not accepting a military-ID, cutting-up passports, not accepting valid out-of-state licenses, WHAT? Any Police officer in the country will accept a military-ID, and a valid driver's license from any state, and passports are generally accpeted as 'holy'. "What is the point of this? Nothing but i feel so much better." I think one point is that the 'patriot act' has had huge effects on our society. "Can I offer anyone a cookie?" Yes thank you.

outofdafog: "I don't want to force anyone to do anything, but what is wrong (regardless if you are religious or atheist) with a society that wants or has morals. Are morals a bad thing now??" Not always no. As I often point out. On this planet, we have lots of different cultures, each with it's own sets of morals. Many of these sets of moral codes differ and in fact oppose each other. A hungry dog that lives on the street and eats out of garbage cans and dumpsters, has his own set of morals. Which set of morals do we choose, and why? If you dont like abortion because you view it to be murder, then you have your moral code about that issue. If I dont equate abortion with murder, because I see life requiring breathing; I just dont like abortion if it leads to greater sexual promiscuity. We both have our own set of moral codes. Which one is to be chosen to act as the 'Law of the Land'? If yours is chosen to be law, than I live in a land where I disagree with the Law and I may find myself conducting criminal activity because of it. If dont like those 'lower' class people, and I want to mash down on them, so I support all the reasons historically for why we illegalized marijuana: then I have my own set of moral code. If you dont see what the big fuss is over, you see marijuana as safer than: alcohol, coffee, tobacco and sex, then you want it to be legal: and we again have differing sets of morals. Which set do we choose to be 'Law'? We have nations where children are sold to temples to serve in those temples as sex-slaves, or to carve wooden idols of monkeys, which are later sold here in America. We have other nations where children work in factories weaving rugs, which are later sold here in America. Both of these other nations send people here to America weekly to become citizens. Those are NOT just moral codes of people far away, those are codes of people who make up our nation. These are ALL morals. Which set do we choose to be 'Law'?

P-Mosh: "Why can't they be prevented from seeing their children? I understand that after these people serve their jail time they get to be out in society again, supposedly with all debts served (ignoring their very high rate of doing it again.) However, these people should never get custody of any children, even again. Adoption may suck for kids who are older than babies or toddlers, but it has to be better than being molested or living with parents who might rape your friends." In the case of the foster-children that we recently had in our family [they were my children for 3 years]. The girl had been raped by the bio-father of one of the younger brothers. Well that bio-father is in prison, but at one point his 'parental-rights' were given back to him, and the state re-initiated visitations between him and all syblings. While the syblings were with us, the state began proceedings with the possible intent of re-unifying those children back with him [the convicted child-rapist] when he got out. The state was going to do this even though our foster-daughter was the one that he had been convicted of raping. Eventually the state re-instated the 'Termination-of-parental-rights' and re-stopped the visitations. Back during that period of time, the girl was going through a tough time. As were we trying to stand up for her against the state. . As I understnad it [and the case-workers insisted] the rights of the bio-parents exist. And if the courts re-award him with his parental-rights, then the only other issue is 'bonding'. If that parent makes any effort to see or visit with the children, if those children enjoy seeing that parent, or maybe even if what they enjoy is the 'trip' [out of school, across state, whatever], so long as the kids dont complain, or show obvious stress; then the case-workers MUST begin work to re-unify that family. It does not really matter how much or how badly the parent abused the child, or raped them, whatever. :-)

Belle: "Do shaved, tattooed cats get to go trolling for treasures?" You could try it and see... "I'm with you on the mind pictures, Cindy! It's painful just reading about what you guys have to contend with." Not any worse than ladies going in for a mammogram [squeeze]. And from what I read, catching tumurs early is still not getting any better. I keep thinking that a good infra-red camera would be better at early detection, and you could stay clothed during the photo. The one that I dont like the idea of is that colonoscopy thing. Every year when it is time for my physical, I go in first 2 weeks early and get the lab-chits done, so that when I do have my physical, the lab work is already done. Well, I always ask to incude a PSA test. And so far, at each physical they say "well, gee you have never had a colonoscopy, we should get you one, but wait here is your PSA results. It looks good, and you have a PSA every year, lets just skip the colonoscopy another year." Which makes me happy. I had to swallow thier video-camera for pictures of my duodenum a few times, and I really dont want to have that thing put anywhere else. :-) Guys could you imagine if some goofy doc decided that the only way to test for testicular cancer was to clamp them in a vise, to them squeeze down, and then to shoot 'em full of radiation? Yeah now that sounds like fun !!! NOT. I dont envy you girls when you have to get those mamograms not one bit.

oldiesman: "Even when they taught that God wouldn't protect you if you don't tithe, it was still up to you to prove it in your life. The choice was yours." I agree. "I concede I do not speak for those who were forced to give ABS money at gunpoint." Ouch would be bad. "Lindyhopper, actually I think it might be fairly easy to prove. I cannot state this for a certainty because I wasn't there, but I heard that at one point in twi-2, twi-2 was pressuring folks to tithe because ..." I was taught to tithe in the Baptist church. First with passing the offering plate three times during each service. Than later after I was baptised, an annual form had to be filled out, 'pledging' how much I would give during the coming year. I was just a kid, but the church kept track and if you began to fall behind in your pledge, they contacted you and pressured you to remember your tithe. Tithing was also taught constantly in the Methodist hcurch that I shifted to. While I have never been a member of a Cathlic church, it is my understanding that tithing is taught, encouraged and expected even there. Tithing is NOT un-usual. Teaching the 'tithe' is NOT unusual, expecting members to tithe is not unusual. Pressuring members to tithe is NOT unusual. Churches run a business. One of my renters NOW, is a catholic, and she attends mass and she is expected to tithe and she gets pressure when she does not tithe. A church has a 'bottom-line' how much money they need to come into their coffers each week, to keep their programs running. That is what they do. "it is a "household" and they stand together and do the same thing and why wouldn't you want to tithe since this is the prevailing word in God's ministry ?" This arguement could be heard at ANY church of ANY denomination ANYWHERE in the world. [except of course in manyu areas the arguement would be in other languages] "... and they kept track and made sure you did." Again many churchs do this. :-)

oldiesman: "Mr. Hammeroni, I think the vast majority of folks in twi-1 experienced the same good things I did." I agree. "First you have folks who, under any circumstances, do not want to give TWI any benefit of any doubt, they hate the outfit so much." Lots of those here. "Then there's the many thousands of folks who never post, who we never hear from, who do not have any comment. I know lots of folks like that, who had the same experiences as me, who never post." Most of those who we still keep in contact with, are like this. Some have visited GS, but they dont like how negative everything is. Generally they enjoyed TWI for a while and it helped them, then they traveled on. For some, leaving did get ugly, but they dont want to live in that ugliness, so they dont post here. "Just ask yourself why folks stayed for so long. Some 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. Folks don't stay that long in a group [unless] there's some good things happening there." I agree and in many twigs there were good things happening. "I do wish more folks like me would come forward, but then again, they'd be subject to ridicule and criticism from those who hate twi and who wants that." Not many.

Bob: "I used to have a cat that treated the thing like it was the local fishing hole." I dont mind cats, they can be good when BBQ'ed. We never had cats in the house. As a child we had cats outside, they kept the rodent population down. I was taught to feed them daily, but only so much as they would eat in a few minutes, to keep them hungry. A hungry cat hunts better. By feeding them once a day they never roam too far, as they know where home is, they will be back come feeding time.

shazdancer: "Galen and Tom Strange: you change the tp rolls??? I salute you!" Thank you. As Mister Mom, it is just what I do. I dont mind, been doing it all my life. On-board a submarine who else is going to do it? During really looong patrols it was common to stash away private rolls from home, so when the boat runs out of TP, we could bring out our own rolls to use. Or else technical pubs got tore apart. "Now, how about the guy problem of raising those toilet seats with the fuzzy seat covers, where the seat s-l-o-w-l-y begins to fall, then comes down like a guillotine toward any unsuspecting "member?" " ????? To smack my member on the rim like that would require that I be kneeling. Rest the member on the rim first, then slam the lid-seat down. I stand up when doing things that require facing towards the bowl. [with the singular exception of when I must worship the porcilen goddess]. By standing up and facing the toilet, my member 'hangs' down towards the bowl, well above the level of the rim and/or seat-lid. Should the lid slam shut, the only thing that would happen is perhaps making a mess if I did not turn off the stream. [uh, shut the faucet?] My only issue with the design of a toilet is that when sitting, a free hanging member will dip into the water puddle at the bottom of the bowl. I dont really enjoy that as there may be logs floating in that water. ;-)

rascal: "Because it is bad form to name names. Specifics will give away identities of those involved and perhaps the person in question would not want this revealed here. This story is not mine to tell." I have heard this said. Though I can not speak but to that which I have seen and heard. I dont cover names [unless I simply dont recall what someone's name is], I dont care if it is bad form. This has been discussed previously. If someone kicks me in the teeth, then I have the right to tell the world about it. And if 20 years later what they did is still preserved for all to see, then wonderful. I will live with what I have done, and those whose deaths I have been responsible for, and everyone else can do likewise. Sometimes the price we pay, is having to look in a mirror afterwards. :-)

Hammeroni: "... Why is your experience so vastly different than that of the vast majority here?" LOL Listen to yourself, dude. This phrase is far more often used when talking to 'me'. Now it is being used at 'Oldie', kewl. "Your planet "way" was a place of good, lightness, and joy- others, it was a nightmare they couldn't wake up from until they left, or were booted out. Mine was somewhere in between the two." Only in the context of what was seen and heard within our Twig. I well know that 'up' at the branch level, or limb level, or HQ, that things went goofy. Like I have said many times already. As you left the company of Joe Beleivers, and surrounded yourself with more WC, everything got ugly and you got yelling at, and more was demanded of you. We commonly saw it as our duty to protect and nurture those within our Twigs. To bring them up to be strong and able to withstand the wiles of the 'higher' levels of the ministry. "As far a VP and Loy are concerned- I did not personally know either of them" Same here. My exposure was far too limited to really say. "... but learning what they did to my sisters" Terrible what they did, terrible.

oldiesman: "TWI didn't teach us to ignore the medical community ... Heck there were medical doctors in TWI ... twi taught that when we are sick, we go to God first, but if that doesn't work, we seek medical attention." I agree, that is what I saw and heard. "Those going in the Corps and WOW couldn't be in debt." This was an absolute mandate. I do recall examples however where people going into WOW-WC who had businesses would give their business over to someone else while they went through the program. With the assumption that they would later return to take possession of the business once again. There were 2 girls in Modesto who ran a trucking business, they took turns going through the WOW program, then going through the WC. "If they sold the house, I can see them thinking they should give 10%" I agree. "I knew of many folks who had family members who weren't in twi, and they were never taught to refuse to have any communication with earthy family." Same here. I am an example of such. My parents and syblings were never 'in', and I have never been told to stop communication with them. "TWI did teach not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. But ... it was up to the individual participant how they wanted to apply that in their situation." I saw this 'yoking' most often used when talking about marriage. "This was the individual's choice." I agree that it was the individual's choice, however I did witness 'boneheads' making long arguments and confrontations over it. I was confronted numerous times, on this very issue. I resisted those confrontations and was never shown any thing to imply that it was official policy from HQ, it was purely the 'boneheads' P.I. "I distinctly remember being taught in twi-1 that you should stay with your unbelieving spouse if they want to remain with you." Yep, Chapter and verse Straight from the Bible, straight from PFAL. "Here is the only point I totally agree with you on. Craig & co. was off the wall with this mentality." Nuttier then a fruit-cake. :-)

If you are in need of studs, try the submarine service they are full of studs. :-)

Of late I generally change the rolls in our home. From a sitting position on the throne, I can reach under the sink in the head to pull out a fresh roll. Bonnie buys these huge cardboard boxes with 45 rolls in them and stores the boxes under the sink in the head. I never pay any attention to which way the rolls hang. So long as a roll is there. I am happy. Our toilet lid only goes down while I am digging in the cabinet over the toilet, or if I need to stand on it. Otherwise it stays up against the watercloset. The seat pretty much stays down. Except for when I am sick and need to worship the porcelin goddess, then of course I kneel before her throne, lift the seat, and dutifully render my prayers to Rawwwlf the porcelin goddess. :-)

Danny: I made a terrible mistake. I post on various boards and when responses are posted on each board they are e-mailed to me. So at times I get a string of e-mails from alternating boards, often on very similar topics. I am currently debating with some people on using insurance policys as a part of their investment portfolio, then I posted here on this board with that still on my mind. I most humbly apologize. I do have insurance policys; on each vehicle I own, on each property, and as a part of each escrow account. I do not carry a medical insurance policy as I am a servicemember and I am treated at military bases courtesy of the American Tax-payer [thank you very much ;-) ].