Galen

outofdafog: "So as long as homosexuals are having their periodic health check-ups, aren't hurting themselves or anyone else, are not arguing with any one and their genitals are doing fine, then no one can suggest that they do anything different." Except of course for the ones who shove it in my face. Yes. If it were simply a matter of what they do to their own bodies, in private. Then yes, like my drinking, it is their own issue. But that is not what happens now is it? "Apparently you are not able to extend the same courtesy to their lifestlye as you are to your own....." I beg your pardon? As I have stated many times, whether I beleive that it is a sin or not, I still beleive that we should love everyone. God's love is still for everyone. What are you talking about in saying that I am not able to extend somebody courtesy? "things that make you go hmmmmm...." that is what I am asking you. :-)

diazbro: "There are many,many alcholics in denial about their problem and will refuse to acknowledge the damage they have caused ..." True, "... but when people realize that such is their state, they also are the first to tell you that it is bad. They know it is bad." When they finally realize that they are alcoholics, then ... But until that happens they live in denial. Or not, I have known a guys for whom it is really hard to say. The government's policy that anyone who has one alcohol related injury or accident is now an alcoholic. Seems a bit over the top. [to me] I have never had any alcohol-related injuries or automobile accidents. When I drink, I drink alone. I dont drive and I dont operate tools. I dont get into fights with Bonnie or anyone for that matter. My doctors ask me about my level of drinking every 6 months when I go in for a follow-up. I tell them: one glass of wine at dinner every night, and one fifth of rum every week. Which is well within the norms for my group. They monitor my "liver-function-panel" carefully every time I go in. But so long as I have never injured myself, or injure anyone else, or argue with anyone, and my liver is doing fine; then they really can't suggest that I do any less. And they often tell me this. I have worked with many guys who were labeled as 'alcoholic'. It rarely had anything to do with the quantity of how much they drank. But rather the effect drinking had on them, and what they did once they had drank. :-)

karmicdebt: "Galen...a man in uniform is always in style! :)-->" Very well. :-)

I do admit that any man wearing Crackerjacks looks really extra bad if he has a big belly. It is one uniform that only looks good if you are slim. It is also the only uniform that gets gooses from strangers. Totally un-known stranger females, while in public will commonly get up close so they can grab a hand-full of buttock. Not to say that I am complaining, but rather it does give me the more incentive to hang on to and keep wearing that uniform. :-)

Jonny Lingo: It is my general impression that among alcoholics, it is commonly recognized that further feeding of their alcoholism is bad. They know it. They also know that it is real hard to control, and that often they just dont have the self-control to be able to control their desire for more alcohol. Yes drunkenness is a sin or broken fellowship, but when people realize that such is their state, they also are the first to tell you that it is bad. They know it is bad. So what is to debate?

karmicdebt: "Men's fashion does change! Dump the double breasted suits and pleated pants -khaki or not... please. pretty please..." I still wear a suit that I wore in 1977. These days I wear it mostly to funerals. Most would call it 'black' with white pinstriping, but really it's colour is Navy Blue. I had good times in it, and otherwise. Sometimes I have had to re-darken some areas giving back it's original colour, I use black shoe polish and rub it in. This suit looks great. The last funeral I went to, a newspaper reporter was there and even took my photogragh in my favorite suit. Last year I went to my eldest sister's funeral, wearing that suit. It was in our home-town Baptist Church [were I attended as a child and her husband is a deacon], she had written the ceremony and it had a slide-show, in the photos that she showed was a photo of me, in that same suit back in 1978 or so. I was one of her pall-bearers, and I heard murmers from the crowd asking if that photo had been of me back then. This suit has huge bell-bottom pant legs, and the waist has a cod-peice flap held by 13 buttons. The top [called a blouse] has a big flap across the shoulders with white stripes called piping, it is for when your hair is long and greased down to keep the grease off of the suit. Around my neck I wear a large black silk neckerchief rolled-tight and tied with a square-knot in front. I wore it at my wedding, in 1981. I think that this suit is still in fashion. :-) So I would have to disagree with you, some clothing stays in fashion. I also wear plaid flannel shirts, I used to really like Penaltons but they shrink too fast. This past few months I have been throwing out my flannel shirts, as Bonnie has been pointing out their holes. I admit they have a lot of holes and thread bare areas. I am down to 2 shirts left. Bonnie on the other hand has a walk-in closet that runs the entire length of our bedroom, it is full, and she has two boxes of clothes under the bed, and I think we have 4 garbage bags in the basement that are vacuum sealed full of her clothes too. All my clothing could fit into 2 seabags. To fit her clothes into a transportable device we would have to use our motorhome [and it would be full to the cieling]. :-)

karmicdebt: Wonderful, congradulations. :-)

George Aar: "Let's do the math! Cost of the "classroom" - donated Cost of the "staff" - donated Cost of the "refreshments"- donated" Kind of sounds like putting together a classroom for grammar schooling at a hometown church. Donte the classroom, donate the 'teacher', spend $150 per grade level for the curriculum, another $50 for supplies. Pretty soon you have spent as much as $200 per child [less if the curriculum is used the following year]. Compare that to our local Public Schooling which charges $8500 per child per year. A big difference. In both cases [TWI and Public schooling] we know where the money is going. :-)

P-Mosh: "At 6'4" it is a bit difficult for me." Then it is a good thing that you did not serve on boats. Most watch stations often have some spot in the middle of the room where there is a break in the lighting and ducting so that the tall guys can stand right thing in that one spot and they can stand up straight. :-)

Long Gone: "I was kidding, Galen, as I am now." Yes, but I wanted to throw in my tu-pence. :-) "Submariners are not normal men. Going down underwater in a big metal tube with a bunch of other men is one of the most unnatural acts I can imagine. Anyone who would choose to make a lifestyle of doing that has got to have some serious problems." Thank you. That is got to be the nicest thing anyone has said to me in at least the past hour. While I do agree that 'going-down' with a bunch of men could well be an un-natural act; it is the big black steel pipe that makes it something entirely different. I would still have to contend that even from among these not-normal 'un-natural act' performing serious problem carrying men; we can still observe human nature and distinguish between theory and law within these isolated functioning laboratorys of deranged men. :-)

Jonny Lingo: "Jean Luc Picard", a decidedly French name, but with a very nice, what is it Tref, a Scottish accent?" I once worked for a guy: Pierre Flores. French first name, Spanish last name, he is a British Citizen [born and raised in the UK], and when I knew him a senior chief in the US Navy, serving in Italy.

P-Mosh: "I've been on Navy vessels of various types before, and it is horrible at my height without being fat. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to get around if I were 300 pounds." Over-heads are designed at 5'11". So being 5'10" I never had any problems running through passageways. But I could feel it when I needed a hair-cut. Carrying coffee for four other watch-standers going one way, someone else is carrying an arm load of spare parts going the other way; I slide my back along my right-hand side bulkhead and he slides his along the other bulkhead, as we pass each other we both suck in our bellys and our bellys graze across each other. There is no need to even slow down, once you get used to it. But when some guy has a big belly, or even worse is when some idiot likes to 'body build'. You just can't get around those guys. Big bellys are bad for sub crews, but body-builders are worse. They cant hold their arms to their sides, they can't hold their legs together, and they get broad across the shoulder, nobody else can fit in the same passageway. Every boat I was on, had a full weight set onboard. Nice pretty brand new weights and bellbar. Welded in place. The sonarmen didn't want the weights to be dropped on the deck. and everyone else did not want to try and fit past a body-builder in any passageway. So the weights were always welded down. Reminds me, on one sub movie they show a cook spraying 'Pam' on the handrails of a ladder, so the XO can't use the ladder. I have seen lubs put onto handrails of ladders, it does make for fun to watch. :-)

Ron G.: "I don't understand why obesity is such a problem. If they're like me, they HAVE to stand and fight cuz they're too fat to run." LOL Only a very small portion of the military will ever be in a combat zone, carrying weapons and put into the situation of needing to 'fight or run'. Many are Machinist-Mates down in the belly of a huge steal monster, or Air-crew whose craft may fly over combat zones but their focused on operating a computer, or storekeepers who load and unload warehouses and track logistics, or ... Only a very small percentage of my career was spent carrying a weapon [14 years in the submarine community and 6 years as an MP], and most of my Law Enforement time was divided between: standing at a gate checking ID cards and searching vehicles, or responding to crime scenes and doing preliminary investigations [traffic accidents, burglerys, rapes, deaths, etc]. From 20+ years in uniform, I spent 6 years carrying weapons /wearing armor, of that I was only in a combat zone for 3 years, and only 'under enemy fire' for less than 1 year [a couple months here, a couple months there, a week somewhere else, etc]. By the time I did that, I was already an old man, grey hair and old enough to have grandchildren. Most of the MPs that worked for me were young enough to have been my children. :-)

Long Gone: "Most boys spend at least 5 to 10 minutes a day not thinking about sex. Grown men can sometimes go as much as a whole hour without thinking about sex." As I have explained previously, this is largely effected by female pheromones. When in the presence of them, males are 'influenced' to thinking about females more. Without the presence of them males are far less likely to think about females. Granted males would likely still think about females even without being influenced as such, but not nearly as often; and it is not nearly as distracting. I have had the unique experience of working many years within environments which often were devoid of female pheromones, and I have seen the effects of what happens when even one man brought along some sample of his wife's [or girlfriend's] pheromones. When those are released into the atomosphere, it does have it's effect. To be truly free from the effects of these influences a male needs to be isolated for a few weeks [2 to 3 weeks] for the influences to have really flushed out of his system and to air out from his personal effects. Ask any submariner, it takes between 2 and 3 weeks for the crew to finally settle down and focus on their jobs. Which is primarily why Commanding Officers prefer to stay at sea, when the opportunity presents itself to pull into a port for a couple days. Two days in port, will disturb the entire crew for the next three weeks, all over again. :-)

diazbro: "Well exercise and sensible eating is the proverbial 1-2 punch." In the context of military, I have seen the effects of what happens when the cooks are aware of who is on the 'fat-boy' program and they have been directed to limit your calorie intake. It does seem to work well. When I have really seem guys with terrible issues in controlling their weight has most often been the shift-workers. Not being allowed to eat at regular scheduled meal-times, working 18 hour shifts [18 on, 6 off and repeat]; or working 3 days straight, with one day 'down-time' to sleep. those have been when the biggest issues with weight control really seemed to be big issues. The in-ability to sit down for the required 15 minutes to eat, stuffing your face anytime you can manage to run through the messdecks [like running a replacement part between a store-room and a machine-shop so you grab a handfull of biskets as you walk by the steam-line and stuff them in your pocket to eat while walking. I have known a few men who blamed their weight issues on the food, everything being deep-fat-fried. Sometimes I have been at commands where eventually we were able to convince the Supply Department to begin offering 'healthier' foods. But realizing that you just can not get anything 'fresh', there are not many alternatives. The lack of salads has always been an issue, and I am not sure how helpfull that powdered milk really is. Rarely do you see any fresh vegatables or fruits. Lots of sugary-sticky buns though. I have been told that on Air-Craft-Carriers they even have 2 - 3 corporate fast-food outlets, so no shortage of junk food. Now that they put ATMs onboard, it is a good bet that a lot of pay-check money never leaves the ship. Our eldest son had issues of bad reactions to so much lard and MSG. He complained a lot that everything 'cooked' tasted of MSG and left the greasey slimy feel of lard in his throat and gave him stomach spasms. I suspect that his reaction was more to the Potasium Nitrates. He had real problems as they just dont give troops very long to eat, by the time you can finally sit down, it is time to run out again. But I recommended that during his 15 minutes in the mess hall for each meal, that he focus on the canned peaches and pears and maybe drink a few raw eggs [No cutting, no chewing, no waiting in line for anything to be cooked, and you can eat a large part of it before you even sit down]. This seemed to help him. :-)

WordWolf: "Not that hard to believe. Membership increases in an area are ONLY due to members from OTHER areas moving INTO your area. With an aging membership, states where people move as they get older will get more members. Ct is seen as a place to settle down and raise kids. So, you might see membership in a 5-state area migrate to places like Ct and Fl, say." hmm, it is expensive to live in Ct. We are here because we bought an apartment building here back in 1990, while I was stationed here and running a twig. We never had any goals of permanently settling here. The crime is high and cost of living seems terribly high. While oversea during our last tour, we went through all the investment / retirement magazines to compare where the cheapest cost-of-living and yet highest standard-of-living was. We kind of settled on Maine. But had to return to Ct, to make repairs on this property [We sold all other properties for various reasons]. I would not recommend anyone coming here, except for the immigrants maybe, I rent to a few who come here with nothing, they work double shifts at either casino and often they live in flop-houses in the neighborhood with up to 20 adults sharing an apartment; after a couple years they often have a good-sized nest egg saved up and can move somewhere else. I have assisted a few in finding other places to go, a common theme has been moving to Indiana and starting a Chinese-food take-out. We have some of the very few apartments that rent for low rates and we encourage families to live without any other adults, just the couple and their own children. When we were here in the late '70s, there seemed to be twigs evenly scattered around the state. We were again here 90-93, there was 1 - 2 twigs in the Eastern end of Ct [along RI border], nothing in the middle and 6 - 8 twigs along the Western border with NY. I have no idea where any Twigs might be today. It is difficult to imagine coming here to raise children. We have had so many fights with the school board, and the State Social services department, and the drive-by shootings, street gangs, etc.

I get these American Legion magazines, they are filled with geriatric products. Walkers, prosthetic limbs, bags for strapping onto your leg if you dont have a prostate, ... They really assume that everyone who is retired, is also really old. :-)

Belle- Wow a lot of changes since we left in 1997.

Belle: "If 1,600 attended the AC special, and we know that's probably about 90% of TWI and most of that 90% will have loyally attended the special, then there are easily only about 2,000 maybe 2,300 adults in TWI." If AC specials are only for the AC grads, that might change things a bit. I was 'in' from 1978-1985 before I took the AC. While I do think that if a person is going to stay 'in' they will most certainly take the AC eventually, I dont think that most do it within their first year. So that would bump the numbers up a little, maybe as high as doubling them. How many AC grads see these things every year or two coming down the pike, and as such dont go to everyone of them. I remember going to one, Bonnie skipped even going to that one. Between work commitments and simple 'lack of beieving'; I would ahve to think that as many as half AC grads would not go to a special in any given year. Just like the ROA, Some went to them, most did not. I went to one, Bonnie has gone to two [but she was an 'innie' far longer than I was]. If half your followers are AC-grads, and of the AC-grads anywhere from a third to half of them will show up for a 'Special' then 1,600 showing could mean 3,200 total AC-grads and 6,400 followers. [that is exclusive of WC folks, just talking about the Joe Beleivers. I have no idea of what or when WC go to things]. :-) "12 Regions and the largest is 300 or 400. There's no way there are 300 in each region, so how much money are those region coordinators getting paid to oversee 50 people? Wasn't there a time where a branch had to have 50 people in order for the corpse to qualify for full time status?" By 'full-time status' do you mean paid? If so I never saw that happen. I have no idea what the policys were. Besides that would only apply to branchs with WC in them. :-)

Bramble: "Galen--yes, bad things happen in churches, too.(I sure don't belong to one.) But in a church that is with a denomination, congregants can make complaints known up the change of command. I've never been involved in a non denom, but I'll bet there are some ethical ones with some type of grievance mediation. Heck, I worked at a Catholic Hospital that had a terrific grievance procedure." Hmm, I was never envolved with a non-denom church either, so I really dont know about those. My experiences and those of my family are entirely from within the big denoms. You know ministers making it with their secratarys [or town prostitute], offerings used to buy weapons in South America for contras [used to slay everyone in various missionarys]. YOu know the standad fair of Baptist/Methodist goings-on. :-)

Stayed Too Long: "While it is true boot camp will get recruits in shape. they have to stay in good conditon through out their hitch. or be dishcharged. Even as a member of the Air National Guard I had to weigh in twice a year. They knew my height and set the scale for the maximum weight I could weigh. If the scales tipped it was time for the fat boy program. It was no fun being required to loose pounds. Weigh ins and counseling all the time. I don't remember the time period to loose the unwanted pounds, but it was discharge time if the pounds did not come off." Did it for 20+ years. Required [in theory] to work-out aerobically three times a week [no weight lifting]. Height/weight charts and than if you were even close to your limit, you got tape-measured to calculate your exact body-fat percentages. The Navy has limits on how many push-ups, sit-ups, and how fast you run a 1.5 mile. Limits on height/weight, and a limit on allowed body-fat percentage. Miss it and you go onto 'Mandotory' fat-boy program, of daily supervised work-outs and at sea the cooks observe that you go onto a limited calary diet. Weekly wiegh-ins, and progress meetings, you restricted from getting the higher personal evaluation marks [so you will not be recommended for advancement], and your actually restricted from advancement so long as you remain on the fat-boy program. If after 6 months you have not gotten off the program, then you are processed out of the Navy. I have seen many get thrown out for just such reasoning. :-)

LOL Since when does the military need to recruit only physically fit kids? They just have to be healthy, nobody cares if they can run or march or do push-ups. Part of the purpsoe of bootcamp is to get them into shape. We accept weak out-of-shape homesick kids all the time. :-)

Bramble: "Few churches have leaders that will enter your house, search your closets for untidiness," Once a fellow beleiver did search through our home, looking for banned books. He found some, and he dropped the dime on us. "... demand your budget book or tax form for proof of income, require written vacation plans, demand 15% of your income, or kick you out." On the other hand, my hometown Baptist church is known for checking out your income, requiring proof that your giving your full 10% and kicking you out if you dont. I was kicked out for just that reasoning, as a teenager. :-) "Nor do you have to obey the minister if (IF) you are counseled in any matter. Counseling is up to the congregant, not the minister, unlike in TWI." umm, I have seen everything said in 'private' counseling sessons, 'leaked' to the congregation so that they could do the pressuring. Ooops, that was in both Baptist and Methodist churches, Ooops. "TWI is nothing like most churches." In some ways better, some ways worse. But hey I was in a Baptist church, then spent a few years with Methodists. :-)

Jbarrax: "I "assume" that the lake of fire referred to in Revelation is not something that exists in this age." Does anyone else here recieve BAR magazine? [biblical Archeological Review] It maintains a listing of all current archeological digs on-going and is a resource for volunteering to go help. It does reviews of their status and presents storys about things that are being found. Giving greater insight to the daily lives of Israelites during each various 'age's. Many various 'Biblical Characters' and cities have been documented through everything that has been discovered. [personal signet rings from some of the Kings and their courts, letters, Building inscriptions, and even wall graffiti] During the first millinea A.D. the dead sea is described by traders and explorers as commonly having 'fire' and smoke rising up out of it. BAR describes the drainage ditch that runs off from beside Jerusalem. as flowing into it. It runs through the Valley of Gah-Henna [it's Greek name] or Vale of Hinnom [it's Hebrew name], the city's trash-dump, where trash was burned and even the bodys of criminals were burned there, their ashes to flow out in the stream through Wadi Jehennum and into the Dead Sea, the sea that visibly showed the smoke rising up out of depths of the earth. It became an emblem of hell, still commonly called the 'Valley of Fire'. And is reffered to in 2 Chron 28:3, Jer 7:30-31, 32 and 19:6 1 Kings 9:42-29, 2 Kings 23:10, Isaiah 66:23-24, Matthew 23:23, Mark 9:43-44, and Rev 19:20 :-) Bonnie's suggestion is that if you find a 'lake of fire' dont swim there.

sharon: "I have 3 sons, and they are babies the oldest being just 10, but the girls are already calling hime..scares the .... outa me, I actually called one of the girls mothers and asked her to control her daughter (phone was ringing at 9:30 at night!! son has 8:30 bedtime) the mother of this young lady, laughed off my concerns, wonder if she'll be laughing when her daughter comes home pregnant?" We once had boys calling our foster-daughter [samantha was 11 at the time], one boy called while we were out and he left three messages on our phone. I was totally set-back by what he had to say to her. This boy was also a 11year old. I transferred the messages onto a cassette and We called the boy's parents and played back the recordings for them. This is what got their attention. He was talking about how they had been having sex, and how she was not any good at it, and how he was dumping her for another girl because she gave better head. At the time, we were ready to call the police and make a complaint against the boy, but his parents did not blow it off. They attempted to at first, but as they listened to their own 'little' boy's voice describe various sex acts, it got through to them that something was amiss. We got written letters of apology, as did Samantha. :-)