Galen

To be a fornicator means that once in yourlife you fornicated? to be a drunkard means that once in your life you got drunk? I dont think so. :)

Suzanne Sheridan and Rozanne Gates? Nope I checked out both of their photos and I do not know either of these ladies. Neither of them is anywhere near 90 pounds either [maybe on the moon].

I don't care what other people's ideas are. [Yes I know that sounds bad]. I want to help people and bless them. If an individual wants to beleive in something that I beleive also, then great. If they dont that is okay too. It is certainly not any reason for us to not like each other. I dont see where it could be said that I 'can't stand it' if anyone else disagrees with me. I don't believe that I offered any insult to anyone else, sorry if I said something that was taken as an insult. I just went over and checked it out, you are still there. I did not take you off that list, no body did you are still there. I was asked to take you off, after you have insisted on insulting others, but I have not acted on that suggestion. I don't 'support' any policy of any organization of which I do not belong to. I am not sure of how I could either support or no-support any of their policies, seeing that I have nothing to do with them.I was never actually M&A'ed myself, as I was never WC. I was thrown out a few times however. I never did think much of C. Martindale, his abilities or his policies. Seemed like a blow-hard to me, but that was just my opinion. I only recall seeing him in the flesh once, he made a brief appearance during my Advanced Class. I have gone through Rafael's listing of criticisms of PFAL in detail, I also used to post on his BBS, and he frequently posts on TWI-1. I feel that he and I have a mutual respect for each other. Most of the times in the recent past when I have posted here about PFAL, I do receive a good deal of flak. So I have learned not to comment so much about it, unlike my friend from San Diego, Mike. Peace. The last PFAL class that we ran, we did spend a lot of time comparing counter-points on alternate days, between the sessions of class. though it took longer. We also went over a lot of B.G. Leonard's Full bible class material also.

Too bad. We really like PFAL, perhaps not TWI leadership so much, but we have generally enjoyed the PFAL class. With the video now all on DVD it is fairly handy.

I have been told many times here on Greasespot, that the reason that we had a different experience with TWI was due to us never going into the WC. Just running twigs, and moving around a lot, and generally somehow avoiding WC 'hot spots'. So it was about: helping people, having big meals together, having lots of boarders in our home, and doing word-studies together. :)

I have a good portion of them bound together and attached inside the back cover of my Companion Bible. It was a huge effort to collect them from everyone that we knew who had various portions, and a process of years to cut and paste them togehter onto pages, etc. Sometimes I prefer to read the 'Young-Driver-Briggs' translation, I also have this one bible that is a comparison of 16 seperate translations [verse by verse, any variation is shown, pretty cool!]. :)

That sounds wonderful! We have ran various twig fellowships and ran many PFAL classes. We have enjoyed every PFAL class that we have ever done, and the majority of class participants have always enjoyed it too. There certainly are fellowships that still run PFAL classes to this day. About a year ago, they had ten PFAL classes running simultaneously around the nation. I am sure that you and your family will be blessed! We will be praying for you guys! May Our Heavenly Father bless you and keep you. :)

Yes, but every married person in the room who could possibly 'cheat' is married.

I have heard this one before. I always wondered about it. In a room filled with couples, say 10% of the husbands 'cheat', then according to this idea only 5% of the wives will 'cheat'. Now convert this to real numbers. If that was 100 couples, with 100 men and 100 women, than that 10% of the men would mean that 10 men 'cheated'. That 5% of the ladies would mean that 5 ladies 'cheated'. so this 10 men and 5 ladies each 'cheated'. If each of the 'cheating' ladies 'cheated' once, that would account for all of the 'cheating' ladies, but would leave 5 of the 'cheating' men without ladies to 'cheat' with. So who wold these extra men be 'cheating' with? I understand that my circumstances have been 'unusual'. I understand that my lifestyle has been 'unusual'. I have worked with a lot of men. I have served as their Protestant Pastor onboard various submarines. there are most certainly sailors who do 'bang' every female that will let them. I have seen many couples where the wife cheated and eventually deserted her husband, during the same 20 years I saw very few husbands cheat on their wives. from my experiences, my observations and those that I have known; females are overwhelmingly the majority of 'cheaters' compared to males. And they are by far the majority in the case of deserting their marriages.

I think that doing such is just throwing the 'blame' onto an innocent party.

I agree.

Abijah; A king of Judah had 14 Wives "But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives, and begat twenty and two sons, and sixteen daughters." 2 Chronicles 13:21 Abraham; Faithful friend of God and father of the Hebrew nation had 3 Wives - Sarah, Hagar and Keturah "Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar." Genesis 16:1 "And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife." Genesis 16:3 "Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah." Genesis 25:1 Ahab; A king of Israel "Thy silver and thy gold is mine; thy wives also and thy children, even the goodliest, are mine." 1 Kings 20:3 Ashur; 2 Wives, Helah and Naarah "And Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives, Helah and Naarah." 1 Chronicles 4:5 Caleb; had 5 Wives - Azubah, Jerioth, Ephrath, Ephah and Maachah "And Caleb the son of Hezron begat children of Azubah his wife, and of Jerioth: her sons are these; Jesher, and Shobab, and Ardon. And when Azubah was dead, Caleb took unto him Ephrath, which bare him Hur." 1 Chronicles 2:18-19 "And Ephah, Caleb's concubine, " 1 Chronicles 2:46 "Maachah, Caleb's concubine, " 1 Chronicles 2:48 David; A king of Israel "After God's own heart" At least 18 wives - Michal, Abigail, Ahinoam of Jezreel, Eglah, Maacah, Abital, Haggith, and Bathsheba, and "10 women/concubines" "Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife." 1 Samuel 18:27. (See also 1 Samuel 19:11-18; 25:44; and 2 Samuel 3:13-14; 6:20-23.) "David sent and communed with Abigail, to take her to him to wife. 1 Samuel 25:39 "David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel; and they were also both of them his wives." 1 Samuel 25:43 "But Saul had given Michal his daughter, David's wife," 1 Samuel 25:44 "Absalom the son of Maacah the daughter of Talmai king of Geshur;" 2 Samuel 3:3 "And the fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith; and the fifth, Shephatiah the son of Abital; And the sixth, Ithream, by Eglah David's wife. These were born to David in Hebron." 2 Samuel 3:4-5 "And David took him more concubines and wives" 2 Samuel 5:13, 1 Chronicles 14:3 "And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things." 2 Samuel 12:7-8 "And David comforted Bathsheba his wife..." 2 Samuel 12:24 "And the king went forth, and all his household after him. And the king left ten women, which were concubines, to keep the house." 2 Samuel 15:16. (See also 2 Samuel 16:21-23.) Eliphaz; had 2 Wives, Timna "And the sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, and Gatam, and Kenaz. And Timna was concubine to Eliphaz " Genesis 36:11-12 Elkanah had 2 Wives, Hannah and Peninnah "And he had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah" 1 Samuel 1:2 Esau had 3 Wives - Judith, Bashemath and Mahalath "And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite:" Genesis 26:34 "Then went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the wives which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his wife." Genesis 28:9 Ezra had 2 Wives, Jehudijah "And the sons of Ezra were, Jether, and Mered, and Epher, and Jalon: and she bare Miriam, and Shammai, and Ishbah the father of Eshtemoa. And his wife Jehudijah bare Jered the father of Gedor, and Heber the father of Socho, and Jekuthiel the father of Zanoah. And these are the sons of Bithiah the daughter of Pharaoh, which Mered took." 1 Chronicles 4:17-18 Gideon: A judge of Israel, had many wives Drumah, Shechem "And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives." Judges 8:30 Hosea; By implication... had 2 Wives, Gomer "So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; whichconceived, and bare him a son." Hosea 1:3 "Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine." Hosea 3:1 Issachar's tribe "And with them, by their generations, after the house of their fathers, were bands of soldiers for war, six and thirty thousand men: for they had many wives and sons." 1 Chronicles 7:4 "Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Issachar, were fifty and four thousand and four hundred." Numbers 1:29 Jacob (Israel): Father of the twelve patriarchs of the tribes of Israel, had 4 Wives - Leah, Rachel, Bilhah and Zilpah "And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her." Genesis 29:23 "And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also." Genesis 29:28 "And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her." Genesis 30:4 "When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife." Genesis 30:9 Jehoiachin; A king of Judah "And he carried away Jehoiachin to Babylon, and the king's mother, and the king's wives, and his officers, and the mighty of the land, those carried he into captivity from Jerusalem to Babylon." 2 Kings 24:15 Jerahmeel had 2 Wives, Atarah "Jerahmeel had also another wife, whose name was Atarah; she was the mother of Onam." 1 Chronicles 2:26 Joash; 2 Wives "And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters." 2 Chronicles 24:3 Lamech had 2 Wives, Adah and Zillah "And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah." Genesis 4:19 Machir had 2 Wives, Maachah and Zelophehad "And Machir took to wife the sister of Huppim and Shuppim, whose sister's name was Maachah;) and the name of the second was Zelophehad: and Zelophehad had daughters. And Maachah the wife of Machir bare a son, and she called his name Peresh; and the name of his brother was Sheresh; and his sons were Ulam and Rakem." 1 Chronicles 7:15-16 Manasseh had 2 Wives, The Aramitess "The sons of Manasseh; Ashriel, whom she bare: (but his concubine the Aramitess bare Machir the father of Gilead:" 1 Chronicles 7:14 Mered had 4 Wives - Jehudijah, Bithiah and Hodiah "and she bare Miriam, and Shammai, and Ishbah the father of Eshtemoa. And his wife Jehudijah bare .. sons of Bithiah the daughter of Pharaoh, which Mered took. And the sons of his wife Hodiah the sister of Naham," 1 Chronicles 4:17-19 Moses [ Penned the Pentateuch, Torah, Genesis through Deuteronomy (which includes authoring the passages of Genesis chapters 2 through 3, Genesis 2:24, Exodus 21:10, Deuteronomy 21:15, etc.). ] had 2 Wives, Zipporah and the Ethiopian Woman "And Moses was content to dwell with the man: and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter." Exodus 2:21. (See also Exodus 18:1-6.) "And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman." Numbers 12:1 Nahor had 2 Wives, Milcah and Reumah "And it came to pass after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, Behold, Milcah, she hath also born children unto thy brother Nahor? these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham's brother. And his concubine, whose name was Reumah, she bare also Tebah, and Gaham, and Thahash, and Maachah." Genesis 22:20-24 Rehoboam had 78 Wives - Mahalath, Abihail and Maachah "And Rehoboam took him Mahalath the daughter of Jerimoth and Abihail the daughter of Eliab, he took Maachah the daughter of Absalom; And Rehoboam loved Maachah the daughter of Absalom above all his wives and his concubines: (for he took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines; and begat twenty and eight sons, and threescore daughters.) And he desired many wives." 2 Chronicles 11:18-23 Saul had 2 wives, Ahinoam and Rizpah "And the name of Saul's wife was Ahinoam, the daughter of Ahimaaz: and the name of the captain of his host was Abner, the son of Ner, Saul's uncle." 1 Samuel 14:50 "And Saul had a concubine, whose name was Rizpah, the daughter of Aiah: and Ishbosheth said to Abner, Wherefore hast thou gone in unto my father's concubine?" 2 Samuel 3:7 Shaharaim had 2 Wives, Hushim and Baara "And Shaharaim begat children in the country of Moab, after he had sent them away; Hushim and Baara were his wives." 1 Chronicles 8:8 Simeon had 2 Wives, Canaanitish Woman "And the sons of Simeon; Jemuel, and Jamin, and Ohad, and Jachin, and Zohar, and Shaul the son of a Canaanitish woman." Genesis 46:10, Exodus 6:15 Solomon had 1,000 wives - Sidontans, Tyrians, Ammonites and Edomites "And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart." 1 Kings 11:3 Zedekiah "So they shall bring out all thy wives and thy children to the Chaldeans: and thou shalt not escape out of their hand, but shalt be taken by the hand of the king of Babylon: and thou shalt cause this city to be burned with fire." Jeremiah 38:23 Exegesis of "One Wife" Titus 1:6 and 1_Timothy 3:2,12 --- "One wife" --- mia is the Greek word from which the word, one, was translated in those passages. Yet, it can also be translated as first, just as it is, for example, so translated in the phrases, "first day of the week" in Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:1-2, and Acts 20:7. Furthermore, in 1_Timothy 5:9, a widow's "one man" is not mia but the Greek word "heis", meaning the numeral-one, and not meaning the adjective of "first". There is so much more to this particular matter here than that which this "sound-bite" here can address. The organization of TruthBearer.org provides a number of detailed articles on this issue, a couple of which include Breaking Past the ONE WIFE Barrier and The Elders, Bishops, and Deacons Trap (Ch.9 of "The Truth and the Paradox"). The fact is, no one can INSIST that these three "one wife" verses can NOT be instead translated as "first wife", which makes more sense to translate those verses as "first wife" anyway. Exegesis of "Wife of thy Youth" Malachi 2:14-15 --- "wife of thy youth" is a man's first wife, the wife with whom he grew and learned how to so love, bless, and edify any wife. Exegesis of "If He Take Another Wife" "If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish." Exodus 21:10. Exodus 21:10 protects the first (and previous) wife(s). Note that this verse comes only 22 verses AFTER the 7th Commandment ("Thou shalt not commit adultery") in Exodus 20:14. Exegesis of "If a Man Have 2 Wives" "If a man have two wives..." Deuteronomy 21:15a. The passage of Deuteronomy 21:15-17 is a specific instruction in the Law Itself to any man with "two wives". If polygamy was a sin, then it would not be possible for a "man to have two wives" in the Law. "If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his." Deuteronomy 21:15-17. As for lot's sons, keep in mind that both tribes did not turn 'evil' for fourteen generations. :)

I also have known a few polygamists. But that is not 'cheating', that is done by agreement and contract. Decent and in order. And as such it is fully biblical.

Dot Matrix - I think that divorce is wrong. I think that cheating is wrong. I think that being abusive either physically or emotionally is wrong. That being said we live on Earth, where many things are done wrong. I think that honestly getting a divorce and moving away from the abusive ex-spouse to start again is a 'far better evil' than staying in some situations.

I think that they both look a little skinny. Not to say that I would ever leave my wonderful loving wife, Bonnie. I don't really see why some many folks just keep changing spouses. Isn't it a sign of poor character? I suppose that if I were to have known either of these ladies, that I could possibly find either of them attractive. but such attractiveness would be in their smile, their eyes, personality and character; more so than in their physical attributes. :) But that is just me. You know what they say about sailors, if you don't find a female attractive under the sheets then you just ain't been underwater long enough.

CoolWaters - Not ever having been 'cheated on', nor having ever been a 'cheater' I have no idea of what makes someone do that. I would have to assume that it is likely neglect somewhere. However I can say that there are circumstances where a spouse does already know that your somebody 'worth' it, but that commonly she simply does not have the libido or sex-drive to care.Not saying that 'love' is not there, but that any drive to have a physical relationship with another human is simply missing in some. I have sought counseling, and I have found that there are others who also have spouses who are wonderful people, but who simply have no drive to ever have a physical relationship with someone else. Sometimes it does not happen until after the honeymoon, and sometimes libido levels seem okay until after a child or two. I assure you that wining and dining and flowers and holiday trips and special moments, just don't change a person's physical emotional drive levels. I agree. Though if a spouse does have some level of libido, and their spouse does not; then no matter what level of effort, money or doctor's visits they go through it is not going to change. None of this justifies 'cheating'. some of us, do however face the decision of celibacy within marriage, as the only option of maintaining our marriage vows. I have been very fortunate by having a very devoted wife, and I have had wonderful examples set before me in the form of an uncle who took care of and nursed his invalid wife for a decade before she passed away. So I do know that celibacy within marriage can and does work. and my wife and I are both dedicated to making it work, even if the physical side of a relationship does not work for us. After 24 years together with her, I think that perhaps men who do focus entirely on sex, are perhaps a little out of focus in life. Sometimes it does take a lot of effort though, to stay in control of my mind. Bless you.

Pirate1974 You idiot!! Now I have that image in my mind. I dont want that image in my mind. You fool! Why did you do that? AAArghhh!!! :) I have watched each of these, and I like each of these. :)

I agree. Knowing what I have been forgiven of, how can I do any less. Though I can also well imagine the flood of lawsuits should the BOD ever publically admit wrong doing.

LOL

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/02/17...s.ap/index.html Bodies of fetuses, newborns clog Harare's sewers Zimbabwe's shortages, inflation blamed for rise in illegal abortions Friday, February 17, 2006; Posted: 11:35 a.m. EST (16:35 GMT) HARARE, Zimbabwe (AP) -- The corpses of at least 20 newborn babies and fetuses are found each week in the sewers of Zimbabwe's capital, some having been flushed down toilets, Harare city authorities said, according to state media Friday. Town Clerk Nomutsa Chideya said the babies' remains were found among a wide variety of waste and garbage cleared by city council workers unblocking sewers and drains in Harare. "Apart from upsetting the normal flow of waste, it is not right from a moral standpoint. Some of the things that are happening now are shocking," the state Herald, a government mouthpiece, reported Chideya as saying. Acute shortages of revenue and gasoline in the nation's worst economic crisis since independence in 1980 have crippled public utilities and garbage collection services across Zimbabwe. Hospital fees and charges for scarce medicines have soared. Church and charity groups blame economic hardships for an increase in illegal back-street abortions. Chideya said workers removed at least 20 tons of sand from sewers every day. Inflation is running at 613 percent and many impoverished Zimbabweans, unable to afford cleaning materials or detergents, use sand to scour cooking pots and household dishes. Salt is also used as a substitute for toothpaste.

True. Gotta remember filing taxes is not about bringing money into the Government treasury. Even though many folks have convinced themselves during the past few decades that such was the purpose of it. We did fine before individual income taxation. But leaders felt they needed more methods of influencing the masses.

??? I was a freemason while 'in' the Way Ministry, and I knew other masons that were also followers of TWI. :)

Rental property goes on a Schedule 'E'. Rental income as well as operating expenses, taxes, repairs, depreciation, and mortgage interest; all get combined into either a positive cash-flow or a negative. We generally keep ours as negatives so their 'losses' go against our earned income, which keeps our AGI low. You are correct. Usually for most Americans, the 'refund' is made up of money that you over-paid during the previous year. The government held onto it, while you could have been earning interest. I have also spent some time at ford island. The last time, they were building a new bridge out to the island. I wonder if it is done?

I did not intend to sound gloating, true. Just happy to be done, and surprized that we got money 'back'. Bonnie really enjoys doing the accounting [lets do the forms this way, no lets try that way, no, now lets do it this other way, ... ].

The laws have already been passed requiring home poultry and livestock to all be RFID chipped. We jsut have to wait a couple years for it to come into effect in all states.