Eagle

If they are serious in growing, they need to let go of the past, drop any blacklist, mark and avoid, etc., allow people to go to burial grounds or anywhere else on grounds and only focus on real troublemakers, which are not to be assumed based on just having left the ministry. Drop the class divisions of PFAL grad, Intermediate grads, Advanced Class grads, and Corps. Drop the demand for the tithe and above, stop selling classes and just let people buy the books and tapes, and focus on loving people again. Also drop any reference to any MOG concept. Don't control people's lives or monitor them in any fashion including finances. When people do give to them, give them the tax form for them to write it off on their taxes. They will grow then. Some of their doctrine even other than that needs updated, too. Anything Martindale should go except the Rise and Expansion book, stop suing people, and the Wierillw PFAL stuff needs properly referenced to the origin, whther Bullinger or Leondard, Stiles, Kenyon or whatever. Wouldn't leave much for Wierwille, but oh well...

Oakspear, I DO like your posts! Dan, That was a GOOD one! We should have brought that up in PFAL class. But then again, no one was allowed to talk, interrupt, or even take notes! Larry, I guess what you mean to say that if something is either true or false, if it is true to a person, then it is truth to that person. Right?

Larry, If what I believed was wrong, it would matter to me. Why did you ask that? All others: The topic is about the way TWI tried reading into scripture what wasn't there. Then again, E.W. Bullinger did that to some extent. VPW did take that from Bullinger. Yes, the accuracy of the Word of God does matter to me still. The cock crow happened several times, the first one after midnight is called the "first cock crow" and the last one at dawn is called the "second cock crow", to help along with night watches, I suppose. But Easton's Bible Dictionary gives pretty good background on it.

For myself, I do not believe that Peter denied Christ six times. I believe only the three. Any thoughts on that?

The verse appears to be a later addition to that gospel and not supposed to be in there.

On duty at Fort Lewis, Washington. I was driving my car and listening to the radio when I heard the news. I was stunned. Just like I was stunned when JFK, MLK and RFK died. Just stunned.

May God Bless EVERYONE here.

Hate it. Wondered why it was so popular. Did it once. Hated it. Stupid little utensils. Hated it.

Sam Adams. Except while driving. Or mowing the lawn. Or having sex.

Hi Garth. It was just a joke.

I hate to admit this, but I do tend to take Wierwille's side on this, but that is not fully conclusive. I'd like to study the premature birth side of that translation and read corresponding verses around it. It is interesting. Maybe then I can be fully persuaded on one of those translations. Apparently Wierwille was not the first to think of that translation in that manner.

def59: Thanks for sharing that. Despite my recent church experience, it still beats TWI. Skyrider, you are right on "twisted and perverted". I heard Martindale using that phrase for people that wouldn't stand with him or give the "minimum" to the ministry. Oldies, it is good to hear the good things on Wierwille. To be fair, I never heard the term "bewitched you" by VPW, but only after Martindale took over and only after Wierwille died. Then again, that is not to say Wierwille didn't say it. I just never heard it from him.

AI: Well, if you have scripture, please present it. I'd like to see the spin on it. Sorry. But, God Bless anyway.

Well, Seth...I do hope by being an atheist that means you believe in something, even if that something is nothing. Join the Seinfeld group! Well, being an atheist doesn't mean you believe in nothing. Can't describe it. Well, being an atheist, huh? I think your therapist is not needed. Instead just tell God about not believing in Him. No, wait. That's like telling my father I didn't break the picture window with a baseball when I was twelve. Or drink his beer just to find out what it taste like. Or brag about having sex when I was in fact, a virgin. Well, whatever, I hope you find God again. I won't judge. P.S. You're going to burn in hell. (No, perhaps not. I wouldn't really not know that unless I actually saw it. And if I saw it, it means that I went to hell, too.)

Thanks A-Dan and penguin, I am thankful there are still a lot of churches out there that really do give a damn for its people. My wife Deb and I would love to be a part of a church like that, where we get to serve people in food lines, distribute goods to the poor and pray for people a lot. TWI kind of frowned on it, but we have always like that. Gosh, Dot, That place sounded worse than ours. I am sooooo sorry! I wish I had been there not just to assist but carry that load for you with you just telling me where to set them. We do that shoe box thing, too. As bad as the hearts were in my church, I do believe guilt would have gotten the best of at least a few here watching you carry that load. Again, I am so, so sorry to hear this happened to you, Dot. Love, Eagle

My wife and I attend a United Brethren church. This particular church seems more like a social club than actually helping people. We have faithfully attended over four years now financially giving and serving in all capacities. When we ran into a family situation where our daughter-in-law almost died with the baby, I called the head pastor asking for prayers, and in this situation we had to get the one year old grandson Ethan and take care of him. Since we both work full time jobs and are strapped financially helping our mentally challenged adult son, we also asked for babysitters in case we needed them and shared that we could not afford to pay anyone, so if people in the church could switch on and off, if it came to that, that would be appreciated. One retired pastor of the church stopped calling us. The head pastor did not call back or send an email or send a prayer chain. My wife worked out a deal where her boss would allow her to take Ethan to work with her and take care of him there while she worked. We called back the church and let them know a deal was worked out so no babysitters needed, but not after several people in the church, seeing us coming to services with the baby, avoided us. Funny thing is...my wife babysits for the church in the nursery during services. She babysits all their kids. Not done yet. We only got prayer when we actually filled out a form for it at church. Then we were on a prayer chain, which is appreciated, but the head pastor never did any contact back so I let it known to those under him, since I couldn't catch him during services, that he was a lousy communicator. He has a history of hanging around social big wigs and paying a lot of attention to them. My wife was absolutely devastated, especially after we faithfully served the church so long, and in particular my wife. The head pastor had no excuse. He was not on vacation, it was a life and death situation, and I got more prayer from GreaseSpot than from our own church. We did not give to the church this paycheck. We are looking around again. My wife did get a long distance call from my father-in-law's pastor's wife, on her own dime, and prayed on the phone together. It was a small country pentacostal church. The church is filled with older people with a lot of health problems. It is a poor church. We had given nothing to it. She just found out about our family and called. That pastor's wife doesn't know it, but she is getting a check we normally would have given our church. And my wife and I are grateful to those at GS Cafe that are praying. We are truly thankful for that after this, and the situation still goes on and will until at least mid-September.

That phrase "Who has bewitched you" cracks me up. It was used against those who left the ministry or said they wouldn't tithe when I was still in.

TWI seemed to be proud of its "lack of law" attitude toward the Bible, yet zealous of its own "law" over the "Household of God." TWI took no shame in its cursing, sexual escapades, and for some, parking in handicapped spots and firezones. I'm not joking.

Thank you! I can treat the Flag with even better respect! Well, just like I proudly did in uniform! Love that! Same for all vets here at G.S.

Well, Hank Aaron, I congratulate him on being a class act. I can't say the same for Bonds. The Roids issue will always stick with me leaving Hank as the Homerun king. I can't say I trust too many baseball records anymore.

That CRACKED ME UP!

Good point JavaJane. I never looked at it that way before.

VPW a false prophet? No, a self-indulging Christian minister, maybe. A false prophet would not have taught Christ at all IMHO. He did get a lot of people involved in God's Word. Then again, the mixture, he turned a lot of people off, too. I hope to see him at the gathering, I really do. I doubt most of his teachings now, but I had some good times with him, too. The thing I found most abhorrent? The sexual misconduct and teaching the same to LCM and Chris Geer and pretty much every other trustee at the time.

There may be legal precedent to it, but frankly, didn't The Way (International) get its name from a public domain source, i.e., the Bible, through their own admission? Who are they to claim the absolute right to the name? There are a lot of places using "The Way" in their name including public libraries. How about "Covenant" Church? Apostolic Mission House, etc.? Are these different small churches suing each other? The idea that the Christian body of Christ should be united, so once taught in TWI has never been violated so much, except by TWI. TWI should lose its tax exempt status as a church regardless of what they teach, because they don't practice it so in reality, the ministry is now a fraudulent church or ministry. If someone went after TWI's tax-exempt status, while that may seem like attacking another part of the body of Christ, I would consider it nothing more than getting rid of a wart.

Happy Birthday, Rafael. Hope married life is wonderful.