Eagle

Thanks all from Me and Debbie and the parents, Scott and Heather! And special thanks from Ethan who has yet to cry never mind talk! Birth was natural, Mom used no anesthetic. It really didn't hurt much, she said. Baby will be coming home today!

My wife and I were thrilled to have a grandson born to us today, baby boy named Ethan, 7 pounds 3 ounces, perfect health. Mother and baby were doing fine. No complications, except maybe our son, Scott, the father, who was there at the birth, seemed to need more help than the mom. (His wife, Heather). Maybe he needs therapy, who knows?

No, don't want the Corps any more. I did once. Until we were told in an apprentice Corps meeting how much "better" and more "elite" we were for joining it. This disturbed me and I think one other guy. We didn't join for that reason. We kind of thought we were doing something for God and that was what made us so proud. We both later quit after viewing abuse. If I could go back in time and had decided to stay I would have violated every stupid idiotic rule they had that was completely worthless and frankly asked why we were doing more work around the farm than attending classes. After all, it WAS supposed to be an educational program complete with a degree. Eagle

Pond makes a good point. I think I will have to get to know the accusers and go by my gut instinct. They might really be victims. It is entirely possible that Wierwille is innocent. But I had heard of his sexual compulsions in the late 80s from some pretty good sources. Not adultery but his fascination with sex. Kind of weird. Even came out in his teachings. Does anyone agree to that? Otherwise, I was going to close the thread or let people post as they will. I thin personal IMs are better and more private at this point.

Okay, I'll do that and I won't need names...

Hi Rick! How's it going? Sorry guys, but I have only posted here over 500 times to several thousand of others and I haven't been at GS as much or every night or anything like that. This means that if you had threads about it, I certainly missed them. I wasn't defending Wierwille, but actually trying to round up the people that really and honestly knew or witnessed it or experienced it. From time to time even a new ex-TWI person will come here and ask that question never knowing the guy. I suspect he did do what he did. I read John Juedes stories but wasn't sure if they were factual or not. Hey markomalley, what are you doing with that blue dress? I'll take some advice here and search adultery threads and hope I come up with something. BTW, I have done some things that have REALLY p....d off the Wierwillites recently. I don't have a vendetta against him, just disagree with him a lot. The motorcoach thing gets me upset but before I start telling people about it I would really like to know before I spread rumors or stories that they have a basis for fact. I am sure they do and I hope to find them. Thanks, guys. Eagle

Well, read Karl Kahler's book a couple of years back and enjoyed it. I know we have proof of LCM messing around. But I only found out about VPW after his death. Do we have any real proof of the motorcoach escapades and having TWI women report to him for sexual favors?

Exie, You're 50? I thought you were 28 or 29, 30 tops. I had been thinking I was old enough to be your Dad. Oh well. I'm 53. You write and sound young, Ex. Eagle

The reason I left the Corps was because I began to turn into scum and caught myself. After leaving, whether scum or not, I was treated as scum by the local Corps in Delaware and Columbus. Exie is not scum. I know scum. And let me tell you, Exie...you're no Craig Martindale. Whether Craiggers is scum remains in the opinions of the women forced to sleep with him. I will not call him scum. Let them call him scum. Eagle

Hey McCarr! Just having fun...really! I know where you are coming from more than you know. Wait, just been handed a restraining order to stop singing online at Greasespot. I'm not marked and avoided here but my singing is. Wait, I've received another notice to return to duty by President Bush. I am going to Iraq to entertain insurgents behind enemy lines. This just in. President Bush has stopped my draft into the Iraqi war. Apparently they said that if I am sent to sing to them, they would retaliate by sending Cindy Sheehan to entertain us. I think we gave in.

Hey, McCarr! Welcome to the Family! We are Family! Marked and Avoided are WE! We are Family! All my brothers and sisters are FREE! We are Family! We were blind but now See! We are Family! I'm running out of stuff to rhyme with Fam-il-ee! Yeah, Yeah, yeah...

Thanks, Connerron That DOES make me feel A LOT better. Eagle

I remember being a big butt-kisser of LCM in the old days when he was just getting over the POP and entering the minefields of paranoia. He kind of liked me. I had no idea of the sexual affairs and adultery then. If someone had told me I would not have believed them. In fact, when first hearing about them I did not believe them and I had left TWI more than three years already. It was only after seeing repeated charges and accusations from all over and lawsuits piling up that it sunk in. I wish someone else had been picked by VPW like John Schoenheit, who had been fired for opposing adultery. Ot John Shroyer, who quit over LCM saying he wished all the people that left TWI would just die. Or some others not mentioned that deserve honorable mention. Eagle

If TWI apologized and REALLY meant it, I would accept it. It is the only Christian thing I know to do. Don't see that coming, though. Eagle

Oh Yes. I am not a concervative talk show host. I am, however, a wanna-be conservative talk show host. Eagle

Now I remember this! I appreciate this Goey! The thread began as a doctrinal discussion on most of these points, and I was hard-hitting on opposing viewpoints, mainly to George St. George and I sided with The Evan because we tended to agree a lot. I remember I opened this thread asking honest dialogue, then turned it around, and debated those with the opposite viewpoint, mainly GSG. GSG reminded me of how and why I opened the thread and I ended up having to apologize to him. He was a good sport about it and accepted my apology. Now two years have passed and no matter what, the next time I open a doctrinal discussion it will be for information only and I believe I'll leave debate out of it. We might learn more viewpoints and possible good points on doctrine that I have not considered. I always like checking my facts and can't do that in church. I can do it here with experienced members. Eagle

I guess the main attributes for a man that a woman is attracted to are: Looks, Brains, Money, and Personality. I used to have the looks and still have the brains, more money as I age, but for some damn reason always seem to lose out on the "personality" part. Once on a potential blind date, I had a female friend of mine I overheard tell a friend of hers she was attempting to fix up for me tell her I was "really cute". I thought that sealed it until she responded, "what's his personality like?" She didn't answer that and went on to say I had a nice car. She asked again and she then said I had a good job. I never did get this girl. There was another girl I was set up for and had a nice phone voice, but I was not told what she looked like. I assumed she looked hot when I went to look her up at her house. When she answered the door, she looked to have weighed in at roughly 400-450 pounds. This sounds awful but I panicked. All I remember was diving into my car thanking God I had the top down that day and leaving in a cloud of dust. The lady should have told me, dammit. I could have at least used the lame excuse of "let's be friends" or something...then never called again. Judging from that incident I suppose I lost out on the "personality" part due to the fact they thought I was shallow and only judged women on their looks. There was a time when I decided to break out of the shallow mode and try to date ugly women and see how long I could do it. Looking back, I called it "Hell week." My wife is beautiful in my eyes, but I like to think I got to really know her before I married her. I believe now over time my maturity level has increased. I prefered talking to any woman now but found myself gravitating to less physically attractive women at work as friends. I believe this is because I found the very attractive or more attractive women think in obvious manner they are better than everyone else, especially the other women. Some of them, the younger female employees, mistreated the older women verbally. It took me seeing this to get out of the shallow mode. The ones who were supposed to be so attractive, turned out in my experience to be the least attractive and total turn-offs. Where was my brain in my younger years? No one answer that. I think I know. Eagle

I used to belong to a cult where men and women dressed up in black robes, lit candles and chanted repetitive prayers to the dead and no one was allowed to dispute its leader. It went to great lengths to seek out members and chastised those who left and any that did not believe in their doctrine. Oh, sorry, not a cult. I was talking about my early days in the Roman Catholic Church.

Thanks, GS'ers, It seemed like there may only be a couple that flame me. That is okay. The reason I asked was that if I began posting and got hundreds if not all flaming me rather than intelligent debate or discussion, then it wasn't worth posting. To be honest, I've even run into a few churches a little like that. Not nearly as bad but just as annoying. The discussions were taken off my website not for this reason but for reasons of reserving space for future articles. It is turning more into a general Christian site that ultimately talk less about TWI and more of stuff of general Christian concern. But those articles on those subjects are not lost. They are resurfacing again. I wanted to discuss the doctrinal part here first due to the experience people here had with TWI. It is better input than those who never went through the fire. Eagle

Lately, I have received some pretty hard-hitting e-mails to the nasty side of left field on things I believe. I openly opposed VPW on some major doctrine and they are the following: 1. The Seed of the Serpent 2. The Unforgivable Sin 3. Christian Possession 4. "Four" Crucified With Christ 5. "Six" Denials of Peter 6. The Lamb of the First Year 7. The Fall of Man They come from people who for the most part have left the Way a long time ago. But close to home those that I did hang out with me suddenly decided not to. Go figure. We have to attend other churches to find any kind of Christian fellowship. But I have to know, are there some here at G.S. that would be so upset I opposed these points that I would get flamed in a post here? I was planning on discussing them in the Doctinal area later this year. Eagle

The word "mocked" accorded to Jesus had to be checked in the Greek, Aramaic and every other text. I'll be darned...the word really meant...MOCKED. Nothing on Jesus being raped. It's a paranoid invention of someone's twisted mind. I have never checked the record of Samson but now I will. Thanks. Eagle

I believe I would be considered a "hater" or Wierwille, though I prefer to think of myself as a man opposed to some of his doctrine. There should be nothing personal there but to people that really like Wierwille, they take it personally. Eagle

Limited foreknowledge of God? God takes several posible outcomes and plans the future of each outcome? That is Geer's theory? ??????? Sells God short a bit I think... Eagle

I've read the Da Vinci Code as well as its original sources. The Da Vinci Code is a great read. But it is not at all fact and is completely inaccurate. The idea that Jesus married and had children by Mary Magdalene is pure...nonsense. Books are out debating the "facts" as portrayed in the novel. Another one is coming out debating it from scripture. Eagle

I was a former Christian member of the Anti-Defamation League and helped report anti-semetic campus incidents when I was a student at Ohio State. That was in the seventies. After getting involved with TWI in 1980, I was shocked to learn about the two books against the FACT of the holocaust of the Jewish people in World War II. The only reason I stuck around for so long was that I thought I could win them over and change this idea. I was wrong trying to change them, so I left. Eagle