Eagle

Wow, more military here than thought of. Just called back, so I don't know what Victory South is, and West 2007 I don't know either. Sounds like I should go to both of them. Let me know what they are and how I can go. Just found out that our Mess unit (cooking crew) apparently is needed in Iraq, so our "militia" cooks may end up being called over there. Back here, we'll be eating at freakin' McDonalds... God Bless all you guys and gals here that have served, are serving, and will serve... Eagle

Well, VPW was supposed to have been one, a graduate from Princeton Theological Seminary. Had a masters there. Never got a legit doctorate. John Schoenheit might not have originally had seminary or theological training, but I am beginning to think those that were self taught come out almost as good if not better than someone who had a demoninational degree or training. John Schoenheit has by far done the best work in my opinion. Then again, it is obvious that real biblical research comes from an independent mind and not one that settles or sells out to the denomination or church that pays him. Case in Point, the Adultery paper. Wayne Clapp is good but anyone in CFF is sold out to Wierwille therefore their research depends on foundational doctrine from that angle, so that spoils it right there. It has to line up with Wierwille and Bullinger. CES is more independent than other spin offs but to me has a very heavy emphasis on Bullinger's works. See Truth or Tradition. Teachings there reflect a lot of Bullinger. I don't think I would want to be falling into a strict Bullinger line of theology either. Some of his were off, too. I have no idea where Vince Finnegan is according to his biblical research. Walter Cummins was too Wierwille. Chris Geer too Wierwille. Also too Chris Geer. Schoenheit comes off the best along with Mark Graeser in my opinion, and I don't even belong to CES. I know there are others not mentioned in this thread worthy of mention. Eagle

Oh well, he'll get another sex substitute while in prison.

Oh yes, three more things, the first, the State Defense Force is a volunteer force - completely - with no pay - like the American militia of old. They are not under the president but under the governor. They are paid if called up for duty but the weekends are without pay. We do it because we are trying to help in the cause in Iraq by helping the units who left. The second thing is that many, but not all, states have them. Not all can get in in their state. The third thing is...as we said...we CAN be called up by the President to serve in Iraq. Some already have. So I guess we are NOT too old to fight if your physical was okay. At that point you are considered full time military and under the president and are paid as such. They wear traditional Army uniforms and rank and insignia, but are very much like the militia in "The Patriot", except the war is not here in the United States at this time (so we think...) My unit is Military Police. Eagle

Recently a friend of mine finished up on the Ohio Military Reserve. It is a State Defense Force under the governor of Ohio. They are made up of a lot of veterans of former wars and have been plugging in to duties normally held by the Guard, but the Guard in Ohio has been shipped over to Iraq, or at least a great deal of it has. The state asks for voluteers, as well as the federal government calling some of us back to duty, even at late ages. One of our guys in the Ohio Reserve was called back to duty in Iraq. A colonel stepped into his duties and because of a shortage of men, I was asked to come back. So I did recently. It is rare one from the State Defense Forces are called into action but it happens. I returned at my old rank but was given a command. My job is to help build the forces back up. A lot had left the Brigade before I was called up. I was put in charge of HHC. For those that are interested and are veterans, you can sign up with a state defense force in your state and serve under the governor. The State Defense Force was formerly called the Ohio Militia, but due to the bad name given by other "militias" they changed the name to State defense Forces. Just a plug to those who may want to continue military service and fill in at stateside for those going to Iraq. Eagle

How about Pawtucket, PJ Roberge and Raf as the new BOD. That would put quite an investigational team in the Chalet, I tell you. They could set up a special room with one light bulb and a chair and interrogate those that initiated all the sexual harassment, legalism and fear. Kind of sounds like Special Forces, though, so maybe not. Eagle

Welcome Noni1974! Have a hot, steaming, cup of coffee! If you spill it on yourself, you have every right to sue TWI. Eagle

Well, this is a popular thread! No, holding no hope for TWI to be salvaged, but if it could...I would think someone here could. I liked the one where a lot of it was sold and handed back to the Wierwilles. Eagle

The articles being here are fine. I know a lot of Geerites hate Raf's articles. TWI II (those raised under LCM) were not too fond of them, either. Didn't hear much about them from CFF or CES people. I assume they were okay with them or did not want to fuss. I know a lot of them in CFF would oppose the viewpoint. Opposing some viewpoints of PFAL was breaking ground and Raf was the first to do it. I followed later with other stuff. His articles on believing, tithing, and more freed a lot of people from bondage and fear. I once attended a fellowship that lived off his articles on his site. Whenever I was scheduled to teach, I printed off his articles and taught from them. We had a fellowship that belonged to no ministry made up of former TWI believers. That lasted for a couple of years. Religious fanaticism did not find a home at his site. Those who truly had their hope in grace and in Christ did. I would have to say that those who worshipped VPW or LCM like an idol (and I got emails from these kinds of people) were somehow drawn to his site but could not accept it. Kind of like an alcoholic having too much to drink and needing water, going to a clear spring to just look at it, then return to the alcohol to drink and get disoriented some more, and get even more thirsty. I found it amazing that people hated the fact Rafael did not share in the memory of their idols. Some decided to stay in the past and Rafael moved on, as he will now. For some that visited his site and read the TO WIT articles, a lot of people were freed from unbelief and received a new life in Christ. Others opposed it for the most treacherous of reasons - doctrinal tradition. We can never settle on any kind of doctrine unless we are absolutely sure. Raf's writings made sense in the non-reasoning world of post-TWI. He helped a lot of us to move on. He is a recipient of the Ex-TWI Purple Heart. He is now awarded the following: The Ex-TWI Medal of Honor

If you knew anyone from the Grease Spot Cafe that should be running TWI, please give that person an honorable mention. And what kind of changes would you think that person would make there? Eagle

Raf, Are you going to keep your articles somewhere? Just interested. Eagle

Shaz: O independent one...they needed you more than all combined. Had they done what you did...the ministry would have doubled. If anyone could have given me proper "reproof" back in those days, you could have. Looking back...I became...so anal... ("Don't move that coffee cup out of the sunlight...there are devil spirits in the shadows!..." Eagle

Exie, Dottie: You both ROCK! I appreciate your candid comments. Some more shocking than I expected but it sure gives a hard-hitting picture of all of it. Okay, Exie, I'll say it. Sogwap...sorry...looking over that post of yours, though graphic, seems to be in defense of these women. In that case...Kudos to you. My apologies. Eagle

Sogwap51: No, nothing like you thought. Just trying to see if LCM's affairs traced back to VPW training. That was all. Your posts, however, are offensive. I believe it is time to end this thread. If anyone wants to continue with me on this in a personal way, send an IM and I'll answer. But again, if it opens up the past and hard feelings, it is best to put it as far in the past as possible. Next time I want this kind of information I'll go to the chat room. It was hard for me to believe VPW did this kind of behavior, and hard to accept. But now I know. It blows off a lot of good memories I had in the early days. Eagle

Belle: I forgot about the "possesso" people. You're right...can't get past that. Apologies there don't sink in. Can't figure them out. Eagle

Thanks for the comfort, all. I began to feel bad about it when I realized people stopped coming by. My first thought might have been what "they could not handle" or something like that...but instead I remembered thinking they can't ALL be wrong...and sat down and reflected on each individual that left. I was too embarrassed to apologize then. I think I might have sent apologies a couple of years back on a thread. Can't remember. So just in case, here it is. Perhaps it is the best therapy I can think of. Eagle

Exie, I'm reading this entire post per your request. What an eye-opener. And a can opener. I think I opened a can or worms. Thanks for all the info, Exie. Eagle

A lot has been said for TWI to apologize for past abuses to its followers that gave up so much to serve the organization. I don't see that coming. But in retrospect, as a former Twig coordinator who followed TWI to the letter, offending so many, and watching my fellowship dwindle from 15 to 2 to finally zero, I realize that I, too, was a part of the problem. There were those that needed special attention in my fellowship and I decided instead to teach what was ordered ignoring the special need in God's Word for that person. When a local leader told me someone had to attend another fellowship instead of my own because of geographical reasons (or for the fact the local leader saw that other twig dwindle due to abuse), I ordered (did not advise or suggest, but ordered) the believer to attend the other twig. When I had good music in the twig and was ordered to turn it off in favor of the Way Orchestra or Singing Ladies of the Way, I complied, even if the believers had heard the music a thousand times before. I stopped my own research into the Word of God, which drew a lot of people for hearing something fresh in favor of leaders banning research and ordering teachings from PFAL collaterals over and over again. I confronted people on "sin" instead of letting them bear a burden in their soul. It became Judgment Day before the appointed time when attending my twig. The twig died because I let it happen. I can't even blame TWI. Ultimately, these were my decisions. To those that I offended in my twig fellowship in Worthington, Ohio from 1988-1992, I would like to extend my sincerest and deepest apologies. You deserved better. As one who was trained in the legalism after the POP, I must accept the fact I let myself be convinced of this abuse as a tool to "spiritually" build believers. I let this happen. Instead, the twig fellowship was like a sandy erosion along a beach, good believers lost in the tide, needing a lifeboat to get back. I have sworn never to let anyone convince me to spiritually abuse another person for the rest of my days. I know everyone from the fellowship is fine now, checking back on them through friends of mine. And I can only wish God's greatest blessings on them. But I have a hard time forgiving myself for it. And that is my penance. Eagle

Yes, I remember, especially as Apprentice Corps, assigned to all the work details. At the ROA, though I did only get a six hour shift on one day there. Flipping Wow burgers and laying cheese on them. I was fortunate. They hit the Corps GRADS with the dirty work, and I had NO idea they were hit so hard. God Bless you Corps for all you did...

Well, that answers that. I guess I'll email him my congratulations. God Bless 'em. Eagle

Hi Raf! I see you post from time to time, but not as much as before. I think it started tapering off after you became an editor with your paper in Florida. Have you been promoted again? Miss your comments. Eagle

An old thread raised from the dead... Did VPW really teach LCM about having sex with the followers of the Way?

I doubt if the issue should be the age of consent but rather the choice of medical treatments. Chemotherapy and radiation treatments still kill people and does not necessarily cure everyone and this country does not give much room for alternative treatments. Case in point: There was a case about five or so years ago about a 17 year old that was refusing chemo and radiation treatments on his own volition. The parents and authorities agreed to force him into it. What happened? The kid ran away and returned two years later, physicians baffled, free from the leukemia he had due to alternative treatments. He refused to tell anyone where he had gone. He had been missing for two years and the parents thought he ran away...to die when in fact he ran away to choose how he wanted treatment. Granted he was only one year under the age of consent, but the issue is butting into families medical decisions when lives are at stake. Granted the JWs have no case, but this does appear different. The court should have ordered the family to go ahead with the alternative treatment but if the treatment plan showed no progress after a specified period of time, then order the child into standard cancer programs. But why even order them to do that? If they don't work, the parents and the child default to the only known course of treatment...chemo and radiation. Eagle

It seems to me that some ministries seem to worship and follow certain theologies of men finding no wrong at all with them. For example, TWI still follows the teachings of LCM very strongly. CFF follows Wierwille. Geerites follow Geer who pretends to follow VPW. CES or STF follows Bullinger pretty hard. It is done even with obvious error. Eagle

That was a great idea to post photos of Ethan. Mom and Dad have the photos. They had a series made of him at birth and we are to get some of the pictures. I'll scan them and have them posted as soon as they arrive. Thread will be named "Say Hello to Ethan." Eagle