Eagle

I remember etiqutte at the table...put to such extreme it was a real pain and annoyance to me while I was trying to eat. I decided to grab a plate at times when at TWI grounds and disappear. Of course, I couldn't be seen running with a plate of food to a room that was not inhabited. Or an office. Had to eat fast before you were seen and "reproved." When I first arrived at TWI it was pleasant to eat with everyone else and just say prayers and eat. Then came the "host", "hostess", whatever, and lunchtime became one of the most miserable experiences in my life. Eagle

While doing a book, I came along Wikipedia but didn't use it, as the site says it takes anyone's articles and lets anyone edit them. While I learned there was some control over them, no way could I use it. In biblical research, other online encyclopedias were reliable. An example was newadvent.org or the Catholic Encyclopedia online. While it is Catholic, it has very reliable historical information. There are obviously others. I prefer though, a good set of old-fashioned book encyclopedias. Eagle

Hey, here's a thread! I always wanted to know the thoughts of the opposite sex in respect to what best attracts them to men. Even my wife is a mystery. My wife likes my sense of humor, smile, and legs. Why my legs, I don't know. Her legs are much better than mine. Any thoughts, ladies, on what guys should be doing to attract women? This came to me after an old friend of mine, who loves Star Trek or Trekkie conventions (he is 50 now and never married) had a tough time getting dates. He has dated Trekkie women. None of them seem to commit. Why? I don't know. Do my friend a favor and give him advise. His middle name is Tom. He won't let me use his first or last name. Eagle

Oh heck, Protect the border, limit immigration like the laws state. This guy is a convert, though. Actually, in my opinion, Muslims at least stand for something, even if a few are violent and many peaceful. The current Senate and Congress, made up of Christians supposedly like myself, are useless and sell out to money. Many are immoral, personally, spiritually, morally, politically or otherwise. I prefer a good Christian, but what if Muslims come up and set a good example for kids, like no drugs, prostitution and such? And they believe in only ONE GOD. But, I was asked about this thing on the guy sworn in on the Koran. It's his belief, and had the right to do so. I disagree with it, but it is his religious choice and by law I can't do anything about it. He may turn out okay. Yes, I still disagree with it. But I recognize his religious exercise. Not all Muslims can be condemned on the actions of a few. I do worry about his connections politically, however. Eagle

Happy Birthday! Mine was a few days ago. I celebrated number 29! Too bad all these Greasespotters are so OLD...... Eagle!

Juedes does have a booklet of VPW's plagiarism. I tried to deny for years he did this even after reading Juedes booklet. One day I just came to terms. Eagle There are still a lot of people, even those who left TWI, that refuse to believe that anything taught by VPW is still the gospel truth, and he got revelation to write and teach it. These people do not speak to me anymore. But you know, I bet they would not speak to many on Greasespot, either. I can't say what that makes us in their eyes. I try not to think about or care what they think of me or people at Greasespot anymore. Eagle

Happy New Year to the Grease Spot Cafe!

Universities don't have to do this. If students want that, they were always free to move off-campus. Yes, it often leads to sexual encounters, pregnancies, and abortions. Really doubt the information fed to us on that. I shared a house (different room) with a single female. While we didn't have anything sexual going on, the real reason was...I avoided her. She was a REAL pain in the a**. How would you like to share a bathroom with the medicine cabinet filled with tampons, hygiene products, stockings handing on the shower, the television used for romantic movies instead of football, and going downstairs seeing her crying during soap operas and she gets mad at me and says, oh you men! (sob), get back upstairs! The worst thing was when I had two tickets to an Ohio State-Michigan game and the guy going with me was in a traffic accident, so couldn't go, holed up in the hospital watching it on TV. I offered her the ticket, we went together, and she talked through the entire game asking me to describe plays, who the names were matched to the numbers on their jerseys, and asked me a few times if I thought a few guys she knew had a cute butt. When the lease was up, I was gone, joining a fraternity. Eagle

Mine comes up as Nature Boy Meathead. Terrific, it thinks I'm Mike Stivic. Eagle

Whoaa...

I have to say, I have sympathy for those women (AND MEN) who have been sexually harrassed. We count the ways it can happen. We have to count the ways it can be made up as well. I know women here have been sexually harrassed. Look at TWI. Let us count the women who were sexually molested, never mind just sexually harrassed. It is a familiar topic here. I was curious on how many guys admit to being sexually harrassed, honest to God, in the work place. Be serious. No flaming. A serious topic. Guys are harrassed, too. I made it sound funny. I can now. But then, it wasn't funny at all. Eagle

GO BUCKS this year National championship.

This happened to me in 1986. I was a supervisor for security at an insurance company (I will not name). My office was in the front of the building and my job was the day shift and supervising the second and third shifts and making their schedules, arranging days off, overtime, and such. There was an opening at the front of the building near the door and that was near my office. As I was doing my schedules, a woman walked in wearing a mini-skirt and after ten minutes of trying to get her out of my office, she asked me out for coffee. You would normally think I should take her up on this. I was 33 then and she was about 38. However, she was kind of plump and the miniskirt did not take on her. That wouldn't be all that bad except her face looked like a bulldog. I swear. She looked like a bulldog in a miniskirt walking on two legs. With heels. And she worked in Human Resources. Anyway, I finally succeeded in getting her out of my office by at least gently telling her no, I was not interested (at least in dating a miniskirted bulldog with heels and big hair.) The next morning, I saw her coming into the building again, and trailing her was the company's CEO. Her dress this time was colorful and down an inch past her knees and she had less makeup. (She still looked like a bulldog but better dressed) In order to make her feel better, I said, "Good morning. You look nice this morning. That's a nice dress." I meant that, too. (At least as opposed to the miniskirt wrapped on her huge hips). I then saw the CEO and saw he was also wearing a colorful tie (kind of like Rush Limbaugh but before Limbaugh) and I also remarked to him that I liked his tie. He lit up and thanked me as I opened the door for him. The bulldog did hear me say that to him, too. One hour later, I am approached by my boss, who then asked me if I had said "lewd comments" to any women coming through the door, sexually oriented that is. Stunned, I could think of no women that I had said "lewd" comments to. The women there at the company were constantly greeted by me in the morning telling them how nice they looked and I got little gifts from them, like cookies, muffins, stuff like that. Never had a problem until then. I asked my boss who my accuser was and he said he could not tell me because he did not want to violate the privacy of the woman. But he was going to write up a charge of sexual harrassment and have me fired or moved from the building. I slowly began to think about the woman from HR, the bulldog, and I directly asked if this was the woman he was talking about. He could have just said no, but his eyes averted mine after saying that and he said, "it doesn't matter what woman, the fact remains you harrassed her and created a hostile environment here." It was at this time I said that I would never, EVER, allow him to put anything in my file, charges or otherwise, without knowing my accuser, or having a hearing on the matter. I then told him if he did, he was facing an unavoidable lawsuit. This guy, and this woman, were messing with my life. I just came out and directly said, "It was that woman from HR wasn't it?" She asked me out yesterday after wearing some revealing clothing (I actually said this) and I turned her away from my office. To make her feel better, I told her she dressed nice today." "She says you came on to her. It was the way you said it." "Then it was her, wasn't it?" I asked? He looked shocked that he slipped on that and said, "Well do you have any witnesses?" "You mean, that I didn't harrass her? Don't you ask HER if there are witnesses that I DID harrass her? I have to prove my innocence but she doesn't have to prove my guilt? What is this? But if you must know, D**** H***** (CEO) was right behind her and witnessed the entire thing. I complemented his tie. I don't see him coming down here calling me a homo..." My boss then turned white, I mean like the Pillsbury Dough Boy, except not as fat. He did not look like a bulldog. He looked more like a ferret. He then left my office for three minutes and was back in a flash. I asked him if I could call the CEO's secretary. "THAT WON'T BE NECESSARY!" he said loudly, like as in a reaction to being inside a haunted house. It won't go into your record at all. I'll just talk to her. The next day, however, my supervisor's duties were moved to another post. True to his word, nothing went into my record, but I just had to assume that in order to appease the Bulldog, I was moved out of the building. One year later, I get a call from that same company. I had long applied for a job there doing anything, such as claims, before that incident took place. I was perplexed at why my application was still on file. But, in order to get the job, I had to go through their HR department. I decided I would show up for a job interview and let Bulldog have it in front of her friends. The job interview was my excuse to get back into the building. When I arrived, I could not find her anywhere. There was no sign of the miniskirted, high-heeled, purple lipstick, big-haired, plump and almost forty year old woman who once was staffed there. Perhaps she called in sick. Since at this time I didn't care if I got a job there or not, I asked about her, and the receptionist there plainly asked who I was talking about. So I said, "The one that has a face like a bulldog." I heard laughter break out in an adjacent office, and the receptionist, a younger girl said, "She doesn't work here anymore." I also found that my former boss did not work there anymore. "We've been looking for you," she said. I was hired by the Vice President of Human Resources himself, first to be a mail clerk and then the same day was promoted to Customer service and Claims Rep. I was now making a salary greater than I made as a security supervisor. About a month into my job, I again asked about the woman in HR, whom everyone knew by now was referred to by me as the "Bulldog". A supervisor in claims then pulled me aside and told me what happened. "That woman you talk about was fired. She stalked the HR director, (a married guy) for months before he had to call the police on her near his home. She was always dressed like a streetwalker, but a real ugly one." I had always wondered if the HR director, now the VP of HR, remembered what happened to me and began to believe my story only after his own experience. They never got the CEO involved. I wonder, in order to make amends, had pulled my file on to his desk, saw the application, and feeling bad about it, called me in to get a job. I remember the laugh from the adjacent office when I said the "Bulldog." Later, a film called "Disclosure" came out with Michael Douglas and Demi Moore. I couldn't hack watching that movie more than once. At least Michael Douglas's character had a looker. I got stuck with a plump, miniskirted, purple lip-stick, high heeled horror who in childhood was probably called "Buster". Eagle

I agree about William on the Kennedy conspiracy, but somehow doubt that Ford thought he was covering up something. The Commission was chaired and thereby run by Allan Dulles, a CIA director fired by Kennedy, appointed by Lyndon Johnson. Quite the conflict of interest. Information kept out of the Commission had to go through Dulles. The rest of the Commission is led from there. All of them could not possibly conspire against Kennedy. Dulles? His getting the blame for the Bay of Pigs by Kennedy though Kennedy took "responsibility?" Was there a Mafia, union, CIA and Secret Servcie connection and how much control did Dulles have before being fired? As much as perhaps J. Edgar Hoover did with the FBI before he died? I'll give Jerry Ford the benefit of the doubt. My eyes are on Dulles as one possible conspirator. SORRY. God bless President Ford. Eagle

They canceled Family Camp? I never knew that. LEAD...cancelled...LEAD property...sold. Way College...cancelled, Emporia...sold, Rome City...sold...ROA...cancelled...WOW...ended...Family Camp...cancelled... I'm waiting for Gunnison to go on the block and TWI assets split up...with the BOD leaving the country with the money. Too much work? All this stuff kept people coming. They then needed to hire more staff there at TWI and Gunnison and less in other states. Management at TWI sucked. Look at the result.

Thanks, cman. That was good of you to say that. I wasn't expecting it. Abigail, Thanks for the guidance. I admit not reading those posts and promise I will. It may be the enlightenment I asked for. God's best... Eagle

Thanks, Potato I am updating the book, anyway. Don't buy it yet. I'll post it here when it is ready again. The book criticizes Wierwille's conclusions on many docrinal issues. I try not to blast anyone personally or even TWI. Just debate the doctrine. The doctrine is not debated without giving alternatives. The book is actually aimed at building belief in Christ again. But for those who want information on those issues, this is the book. I noticed that one person has found a lot of information on the Four Crucified theory which also was contained in my book. (Not that he got it from my book, it is just that anyone here, with enough interest could do the same thing, as this person did.) God's Best to you and your family! Eagle (Steve)

Wow. The blasting on John is rather incredible. I don't know what to say. I've bought some of their tapes and books and liked them all. I have only recently heard of "personal prophecy" and I saw someone victimized by that...not as CES but at a church fellowship. Personal prophecy is possible, but unlikely in most cases. Note the example of the man who confronted paul for not listening to the Holy Spirit. Momentus didn't sound good to me, a major reason I kept my distance from CES in those years. But i have always liked John A. Lynn and trusted him. I also have spoken to John Schoenheit and had good conversations with him. I completely trust him. This was back in the mid to late 80s. I have emailed Mark Graeser and remember he was excited about CES/STF starting a Bible College. I still agree with that. I admit not knowing inside information. I agree the BOD of the organization should be above division among themselves. I wish I could be more enlightened, honestly, about what is so bad about these people. I wish them all the best in the resolution of their situation. Eagle

My two step kids have...for the last eleven years, blown every holiday between Thanksgiving and New Years. They were in trouble, one or the other, or both at this time. We told them both to knock it off before we disowned them entirely. They both did it again this year, but in milder terms. One son had a fender bender earlier this month raising the insurance premium we pay for him (he is disabled). We told him HE pays the increase. The other also had an accident and possibly passed a stopped school bus and faces a $500.00 fine. He is on his own. My wife and I this year looked past all that and said, "The hell with it" and celebrated Christmas anyway! Merriest of Christmases and a Happy New Year! Eagle

Wow. They just can't think this one thought... Kids will be kids... ....especially at five years old. Oh, horse poopie to you, too who don't believe me. I wish that little girl hadn't said "bagina". I need therapy for life now. Someone sue the parents. Put that girl in juvy... Eagle

I kind of feel bad for CK. I know where he was at...sort of. The list of four, though, with God at the bottom and not mentioning Jesus kind is of...misplaced I guess. I am hoping he did not write that list in order of importance. I suppose he didn't. I don't know. But bless you anyway, CK. Eagle

My "Christian Heritage Online" website will be changing shortly to a new site. Before it does, I wanted to mention that some now former members of TWI that mentioned Raf's Blue Book problems and blasted him for them are now confessing he is probably correct. This is an indication some more are leaving TWI. We may find them soon on Greasespot as I referred them here. One apologized to me and mentioned he probably should apologize to Rafael. I guess it takes time to just let some people let off steam, hate you for a while, until something happens down at TWI that changes their minds and they cool off, and I guess after a few months, think for themselves. I don't see Raf around here too much anymore most likely too busy with his paper. I don't post emails due to privacy but wanted to pass the message on. At least one. More may be coming, he says.

According to Wierwille, the word apostle meant to "bring new light" to a generation. It meant nothing like that. It meant "to send out (from one point out to another)". Anyone sent to a town to witness and spread the gospel of Jesus Christ was an apostle. The first twelve were the twelve, then eleven, then twelve again apostles. They were sent to the twelve tribes of Israel first, then to the Gentiles. At least that was the plan. WOWs are good examples of apostles today, or at least WOWs in the old days of TWI. There are many ministries in the church of Christ and one of them is "apostles". Anyone can be one. It is not restricted to just the original twelve, nor was its meaning to bring new light to a new generation, though that is what the original apostles were doing, as well as current missionaries today. Only Jesus or His Father, God can be called Lord. Wierwille in my opinion twisted scripture too much, so I cannot consider him Lord or apostle, though in technical terms, since he himself went out from his farm throughout the country spreading the gospel (according to him), I suppose he can be called an "apostle". He was an apostle of error sometimes, though, IMHO. He was quite good when he first started, though, not trying to be controversial but just spread God's Word. There was a time he was very good at what he professed to be. God Bless him for those times he did actually, bring people to the Lord. I can't take that away from him. Eagle

Well, might as well say that the "Four Crucified Theory" along with the "Six Denials of Peter" and the original sin being masturbation are all debated in my book, mentioned on another thread. It is being updated as I speak and when updates are complete, can get it from Amazon.com. I even pretty much say the Eve lesbian theory is not credible and give the origin for that. A lot of stuff is being debated in the book. It is advised not to buy the book yet because editing errors got through the first time around, so I'll have to announce when the book is ready. While it can be bought now, I feel that it is not complete. There are two major updates in it. The book is titled "The Genesis Pursuit: The Lost History of Jesus Christ" and does take on most of these issues. I'll announce it on a special thread later when it is done. It is a big read. Over 560 pages but that includes scriptural and subject indexes, as well as notes and references. (My publisher does not do footnotes so it was harder to have readers see them right on the page. They are superscripted numerically and the reader goes to the back to find sources and information on some topics.) I'll explain details on this site later. I have pretty much already been banned from one ex-Way fellowship because of it. I don't care anymore. Eagle

I doubt if I would list Bullinger or Pillai on the fringe. I respect them both, though I have some differences with Bullinger. But I still like them both. Hardly fringe teachings. The Law of Believing thing is debatable, I question tithing as a principle though most churches including my own teach it. I think those that are on the fringe now are those who must separate ways from those of us who do not necessarily believe all that Wierwille taught. Eagle