Eagle

Being from New England, I rooted for the Pats. I don't want to be a bad sport about it though. Congrats, Colts. Eagle

I might...buried back in my garage.

Doesn't TWI also have Homeland Security (Bless Patrol with guns), a Secretary of Defense, a Secretary of Commerce (who controls the ABS/tithing), a Secretary of Education (coordinating LCM classes) and more? Hail to the chief.

I want to go to this weenie roast because I have never been there and I want to meet Greasespotters, people who I have spoken to and have never personally met, unless of course I recognize them from TWI. I also want to introduce my wife to everyone. When and where will this weenie roast be? Eagle

I never got that far in thinking but I do believe I came close to it. I praised LCM at any chance I got and desperately wanted to go through Corps and be assigned to HQ and serve the BOT. That was my dream, more important than marriage though that was way up there, too. Somewhere I came to my senses and left to get a career so I could make a pension at least, and not be dumped from the ministry in my senior years. Later, I felt so guilty about how I treated members of my fellowship. Thank God, they all left and all forgave me like it was nothing. I was lucky. Eagle

I think I saw this in "The Exorcist" when Linda Blair was trying to use a computer...wait...no computers then...I know...it was at work...

I don't know what to say about Craig. What do we do if we find his address...harass him? Go down to that level? It's not important. But I do find it strange all that Way money going to UT.

Last night I saw a documentary on cults on the history channel and most of it detailed Jonestown and the Branch Davidians. There were some Jonestown and WACO parallels and they included the following: 1: The leader was charasmatic but very controlling over its members. 2. The leader was called "Father" or "the Father". 3. Survivalist training 4. Operating out in rural areas or distant lands. 5. Strict obedience of its members to leadership 6. Sexual abuse and rape. If the POP didn't come up and blow up the ministry, could TWI continued on this kind of path?

The Joe Woods that was in Columbus and then on staff in the 90s was the one married to Lucy. It was in fact, Joe and Lucy Woods. They are a wonderful couple. Sorry to hear they were dropped from Corps and staff. They must have done something spiritually right and got thrown out, who knows. I knew them both. Eagle

Juedes' insight into the offshoots setting themselves up very much like TWI is almost accurate. Even when an offshoot, for example, does not have a "foundational class", it has foundational tapes. Actually, I don't mind too much if CES or CFF has much of the same old format as TWI so long as they don't do a MOG worship thing or alienate its followers and actually tries looking at VPW's teachings all over again. There are still a lot of his teachings still taken for granted. Of course, even if one started his or her own church apart from TWI and even pushed the trinity again, there would be disagreement from one church to the next. Maybe someday we can focus on our agreements rather than disagreements. It was a great interview. I listened to Part I and II. They were very enjoyable and look forward to going back and listen to the rest and listen to upcoming broadcasts.

Lingo, Thanks for the post and HAP, thanks for understanding. I think the responses got confused when I said "approach" gang members when I meant "run into" (by accident) gang members. I still believe the organized legal and local trained forces should have authority to go after and root out these people. And I also believe, as Johnny Lingo does, that we have to be individually armed, whether we like it or not, in case our lives are in mortal danger, or worse, finding ourselves in a situation where a woman or child is in danger and the police are not around nor will make it on time even if calling 911 on a phone call. I also believe (though the Supreme Court disagrees) that the Constitution is addressed to the citizens or legal residents of the United States. The rest are international criminals and either international rules apply or no rules apply. You take away the "right" to the courts here in the United States, access to free medical care, drivers licenses and jobs, and the INS and Border Patrol are vastly increased and have the right to use deadly force against people coming over the border (either side), then watch the applications for legal entry rise so we can control it. IMHO (In My Horrendous Opinion!)

Anything on cult activity or experience in a cult? You could be hearing from some of us, some which may require a referral for medication...

Concerning the opposition to the founding philosophy (yes, founding philosophy of our country) that we form trained neighborhood or regional groups (militias) that have legal authority granted by the state, organized in such a fashion to recognize, spot trouble (frankly, the enemy within our borders), and when threatened, we do not first consider their rights but first consider our lives. The "blight over the border" is exactly that, an illegal blight...foreign gangs infiltrating with local gangs to form a dangerous armed force against the citizenry. You spot them, you surround them first, and if necessary, shoot them. You drive them out. Make it unprofitable to be here. No, it is not pointed specifically at Latinos, or even Arabs. It is easy to use that analogy or race card because the ones coming over are mostly this group. It could be European gangs doing the same thing. The same principle would apply. No, I don't expect this to be taken seriously ever. Look at our political leadership. I have never heard of the specific gang you spoke of until now. Frankly, I was thinking of other neighborhood gangs in this area. But, don't worry, for those siding with the gangs, they face no harm from local neighborhood watches and they know it. The only reasons gangs grow...is because we as a country let them and reservations such as displayed by P-Mosh and HAP encourages it and like fertilizer, helps it to grow. Hope that was an appropriate response.

Gangs are armed and extremely dangerous. They pay no attention to boundaries, property, or your life or any laws about gun control. They kill. Period. If one approaches a lot of gang members, you have to be armed, regardless of the laws in that area. Rather live with a police record than die obeying the law. Frankly, you now see why gun control is useless. I guess the argument for this should be on another thread. The way to control gangs coming into your neighborhood is an armed neighborhood force with legal authority to act, and shoot to kill if necessary. They used to be called auxillary police before some places said they could be that without weapons and only carry a radio. Watchdog associations do that. But the sad part is police are too busy and never get there in time. The legal authorities in charge should learn to trust the citizenry more. Oh sure, a few abuses of that here and there. But better that than this blight coming over the border.

Anyone think of how Doug McMullan was treated just visiting the area where former friends are buried or the Fountain of Living Waters? That's not different. People are still leaving, I happen to know. Frankly, the organization must get off its butt and REALLY change and forget about searching people or stopping people and just welcome people if they want them back. Act like a normal ministry or church. That's what has to stop. Mark and Avoid is still very real there and must end. No one can take them seriously. I once thought they had changed and were trying to take care of their people. Now, I'm not so sure. The actions don't represent what is considered "change".

I don't fellowship with CFF because we don't share the same views anymore. I used to fellowship with them and was even married in CFF. It depends on your beliefs. It is true they still admire and respect Wierwille. It falls short of worship of the man, however, as they have reviewed and updated, and even changed a couple of points of doctrine...case in point...the Mystery. They don't fault Wierwille for getting it wrong. No one is one hundred percent right all the time anyway. That means they do sit back and look at what they were taught. However, most Wierwille doctrine is still accepted there. You can take to the bank that John Shroyer is an excellent pastor. Regardless of one's doctrinal views, he is by far one of few, along with Wayne Clapp, who really care about people and are consistently busy, which is why the ministry has grown, as opposed to TWI which is losing out. I believe CFF has surpassed TWI in membership and has done that long ago. Granted most were ex-TWI members to start with, but they witness and bring people in. I hope this post I read about charging for classes is not true. Last I experienced, they were not. Their classes are sold on tapes to individuals because it cost money to make the tapes. Then whoever has the tapes can play it in fellowships to anyone free of charge. They also welcomed anyone to copy the tapes. They did not care so long as the Word was taught. The tapes are copyrighted, but they are not anal like TWI and go after people. They understand people can't afford a lot of things. Like any church, it draws a few wackos, I suppose. And in an ex-TWI kind of ministry, there are those still there with the old legalistic mindset. Spying on others, etc. John has spoken publically (and I was there at the time) that he wanted none of that in this ministry. Further, he realized that Wierwille was practically worshipped and part of the problem was that Wierwille taught everything the first time around. What did John do? He took the foundational teachings he had and split it among several teachers. He did not want happening to him what happened to Wierwille. John is also a faithful husband and family man. You can't say that about TWI's leaders. If anyone deserved to take over, I guess he did. John and Wayne Clapp also draw a lot of old talent from TWI. Many good research people went to his ministry and help. If there were any with bad experiences, I hope that can be put in the past. My only reason for not being a part was doctrinal pure and simple. I liked the people there, though a couple went legalistic on me. But I overlook that behavior now. My wife and I attend a local church and some legalistic behavior occurs there, too. If the organization itself turns into a TWI, then yes, leave. Wouldn't blame you. God Bless. Eagle

HCW and Out There: I'm cracking up now! Glad I can laugh about it. But I still shudder to think about what had happened if I HAD "scored". She would be saying things like... "I'm not excited yet. I need you to believe for an entire two hours for me to get in the mood..." "Do we have to do this with our clothes off?" "You're not up to the standard of the BOT." (What's that supposed to mean?) "I've had better in residence..." (I've had better anywhere...) And finally.... I see her with a whip and black lace and she says..."I must reprove you..." Time to run again....to the nearest female hillbilly. I would like to add, though...compare that to the women of GreaseSpot. The sweetest, loving and most attractive women on the planet! Just too bad I'm married! Somebody hit me! (But not the Way-Date) Eagle

Hello from Ohio! Lived in Delaware!

Fellowshipper, Sounds like you have a good one to share, too. As for after that abbreviated "date", for the next few nights I did hang around that bar. During the days, though, I walked around like I had Tourettes Syndrome. My eyes blinking hard, my head and neck jerking a little, and sentences with a blurted out string of cuss words I never used before. Why was this babe such a critic? I don't know. I found myself attracted to non-babes, because after that encounter, the non-babes became babes. I mean, I found drunk middle-aged hillbilly women attractive without even being drunk. Therapy might have helped, but I never went. I don't know. Is there such a diagnosis as PTDS? (Post-Traumatic Date Syndrome) HCW, I like your ideas. I wish I had been all together in mind and spirit to say those things and score! Unfortunately, I was possessed...

Actually, around that time I was not looking to have sex with these women but couldn't help thinking about it. I honestly was trying to "save" myself for marriage after so many years in TWI, though TWI never taught me anything like that. I was dating to see if I could have relationships. Then think about getting married. Somehow, this one blew a fuse on the way to the restaurant. Had to get out fast. I could just imagine now marrying THAT one. "Honey," she would say after our first born..."our child isn't cute enough or up to the standards of the BOT. He is possessed. We need to cast out devil spirits so he can be cuter... this is because you didn't believe for a cuter child..." I do remember later going to a hick bar not too far from Delaware, Ohio and dancing with a bunch of well..drunker women... Still didn't get laid because I didn't ask. But it was a blast! For some reason, I could talk to them about anything...and they would say stuff like..."you poor baby" and "I like those jeans..." At least somebody liked my jeans.

No, nandon, didn't get laid. Was thinking about it of course, like any horny guy. I think either I forgot about sex or changed my mind about it about the time she said I was having spiritual problems for not giving her more money. Then the possessed thing...somehow these things kind of kill the mood. Screw the mood...I wanted out...

I'm married to a wonderful woman now who never was a part of the Way but experienced legalism and fear in a small Methodist church and left. If I remember some of my Way-Dates, one in particular came to mind. She was in the Corps, I was going in later. She was also a total babe. I picked up my date to bring her to dinner one night and the following occurred: 1. She said I was not wearing a hat. (Because it was about 55 degrees and it wasn't that cold.) 2. She said there was dust on my dashboard. (Not a lot, but thanks for noticing...) 3. A lecture for not including the BOT in our Twig prayer time. (Thought the MOG was already covered) 4. My believing was down and not in alignment with God because my car had a gas-guzzling problem. 5. I complimented her appearance. She thanked me and criticized my wearing jeans. (great-looking jeans, too) 6. She asked me about my job and income. I was working for another believer getting paid very little. Kind of personal asking my income. What for? Only a future wife needs to know that. 7. She asked me to increase my sponsorship to her in the Corps to help "build my believing". She was receiving $100.00 from me every time tuition came due. She wanted $200.00. 8. I told her I doubted I could afford that much. 9. My believing was terrible. 10. I told her her believing was worse, asking someone else for money anyway. 11. I was possessed she said. 12. My head didn't spin around, but my car did, and my anger got the best of me. 13. She asked me to slow down. She was afraid. 14. Fear is of the adversary, I said. But I slowed down. 15. I dropped her off at home. No date. She said I wasn't worthy of her because I was full of so many doubts. 16. I told her she was right, one of them being I doubted I would ever ask her out again. 17. I drove off. I never did ask her out again, though I saw her at the Rock. She smiled and came my way. She was going to talk to me again. I ran. After that I never saw her again. Last I heard, she was still in TWI.

Wow, it is still that way? I thought it was trying to change. Whatever...

Have a GREAT one!

Have a great Birthday, Tom! Eagle