wrdsandwrks

I think you're exactly right. I Corinthians 6:17 "But he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit" vs 16 says, "What, know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, shall be one flesh" "But he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit. Spirit (of God, Holy Spirit) joins with spirit (of man) to become one spirit. I don't think the joining happens in the mind, it happens in the spirit, spirit to spirit. But I think I see what you're saying about being transformed by the renewing of the mind. Good point, I hadn't thought about that. VP put a lot of fear in people about the Spirit. Probably if people had really started walking by the spirit in TWI they would've flushed out the evil and sin and shut down VP's lust devils.

Another benefit, IMO, of not trying to make power come from my mind is that it frees me to use my mind for what it was meant for, thinking, reasoning, learning, growing intellectually. I’m no longer under the bondage of whatever VP said about putting away other reading materials for the next 3 months (which turned into thirteen years). I want to think deeply and to write clearly. In order to do this I need to read, and not just the Bible. I’ve put myself on a course of study of reading or re-reading the classics, and the Great Books of our Civilization (recently read Aristotle, Kant, Aeschylus, Herodotus, Thucydides, Mill , studying Latin, studying Physics, and getting back into my Greek and Hebrew studies (trying to find time to get back into reading classical Greek). My Bible study is alive, I’m studying Hebrews. My mind is being fed on great books. I started a blog. I’m not trying to brag, I just want to say that I enjoy thinking and developing my mind. Why are many Christians, especially Charismatic Christians, anti-intellectual? I for one think we need more thinkers to address our culture. I intend to use everything God has given me, including my mind, for His glory and to advance His kingdom.

Here are some of my thoughts on the subject at hand. This teaching on the born again spirit, I believe, begins to unravel the lack of power and spiritual frustration experienced by many, at least it did for me. How so? One of the most insidious doctrinal teachings, I believe is that “the renewed mind is the KEY to POWER.” There is no power in the mind. II Kings 6:14-17 …and they came by night and surrounded the city. And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with houses, and chariots. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?” So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. There is an invisible realm all around us. The spiritual realm is more real than the physical because it is eternal. All the real things in life are in the Spirit. And I cannot think my way there! I can’t believe real hard with my mind and see it. So how do I get there? My mind is powerless. (And which of you, by taking thought, can add one cubit to his stature? Luke 12:25) The real me is the spirit. (For what man knows the things of a man, if not the spirit of man in him? ) I am not my body or my mind or my emotions. The real me, the me that hungers to know God and to be intimate (spirit to spirit, I Corinthians 6:17- “But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.”) with Him is my inward man, the hidden man of the heart. My mind is like a computer that I use to process thoughts and to store memories, my emotions are to serve the real me. My body is the house I live in, not the real me (Contrary to the constant message we receive from the entertainment industry). When I forget this and focus on my body as the master, or my intellect, or let my emotions rule, then I get in trouble and am powerless. But when my body and soul are subject to the spirit man in me, under the Lordship of the Holy Spirit, then I have life, peace and power. Don’t know all there is to know about it. Can’t say exactly what happened when I was born-again. But I know that God graciously sent His Spirit and regenerated my spirit and filled it full of the Holy Spirit. And my spirit man came alive, dead to sin but alive unto God, quickened by the spirit of life in Christ Jesus. When I go to minister healing, or am led by the Spirit to prophesy, I can’t look into my mind (or memory) to find the words to speak, or speak from some emotional basis. If I’m led by my intellect the words will be cold, empty and lifeless, if by my emotions they will not be pure and will cause hurt. (CES possibly?) But the words that come from the spirit are pure words, they flow from the throne of God out of the belly and are rivers of living water that refresh and heal. When I learned this and stopped trying to make “believing” come from my mind (gee, maybe that’s where “make-believe” comes from) then when I laid hands to minister healing, sometimes I would get a picture, a vision from the Spirit, of the cause of the problem and would speak to it. ) Other times, when praying a picture would come, not to my mind but to my spirit, to give information that I don’t have access to in any other way. I’ve seen angels in this way. These are visions like the Bible talks about. We received power after that the Holy Spirit came. I for one am very thankful to God to have tasted and seen just the small bit that I have of the powers of the world to come. And I’m hungry for more… This happened when I stopped trying to make power come from my mind and realized that I really could be “strengthened with might by His spirit in the inner man” Eph 3:16.

That would describe me too, twenty years out of TWI and God is gracious and answers every question and heals every hurt. Not that I know all the answers or understand the Trinity and its ins and outs. But I figure, God knows who He is and He reveals Himself to me through His Word and the Holy Spirit. I once heard a preacher in a "real" church say that everyone he knows that spends all their time trying to understand the Trinity is unhappy. I don't know if that was true or not but it spoke to me at the time. I stopped trying to read and research systematic theology and just started reading the Bible again. I think it was somewhere in John 15-17 that I started getting it. I bow before Jesus in abject humility and say, with Thomas, "My Lord and My God." Yeah well, as long as you're not racist and wouldn't mind living in South Central LA you'll be fine...

What a cutie! Thanks for sharing this, you have every right to brag. Nice that he can put his face on something so obviously worth supporting. My daughter is enrolled in a virtual charter school. It's a great option.

Here's a "fun" little quiz I came across on the web. Anyone who can define all the terms gets a free cup of coffee at the cafe, on me. I am proud to say that I have shed most, if not all of the TWI teachings and am no longer a heretic. Are you? Before you take the quiz and to put it in perspective here's a link to the article where I found the quiz: The Point: Heretics Unite Okay, I don't want to start WW III. I realize that inquisitions have been started over such things. Try it for fun and if it leads to some useful discussion then great... Here are my results: There's a link to the quiz at the bottom of the table, try it. You don't have to know the meanings of all the words in the results to answer the questions on the quiz. You scored as Chalcedon compliant. You are Chalcedon compliant. Congratulations, you're not a heretic. You believe that Jesus is truly God and truly man and like us in every respect, apart from sin. Officially approved in 451. Chalcedon compliant 100% Pelagianism 67% Modalism 42% Monophysitism 42% Gnosticism 33% Nestorianism 17% Monarchianism 17% Apollanarian 8% Adoptionist 0% Arianism 0% Donatism 0% Albigensianism 0% Socinianism 0% Docetism 0% Are you a heretic? created with QuizFarm.com

I Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

How many dogs do you have? I'm a dog-lover too. We have four (all Jack Russell Terriers, quiet, mellow dogs -- NOT), but anyway, come to find out that the county recently passed a law that limits the number of dogs you can have to 3. We have to hide one of them. To me this is a case of over-regulation and intrusion. No one asked me nor was I aware that such a law was being passed. So anyway, something else to check on before moving to an area Where were you during the LA Riots? We were in LA then. Hubby and I were both on the UCLA campus with our then 2 year old son and started seeing people running. It was scary when we heard that mobs were moving in on Westwood.

Wow Dot! That really is cool. Thanks for sharing it. God is so great to confirm His Word with signs following.

nerdtests.com I got "Low-Rank Nerd".

Nice point, Bolshie (Can I call you that?). I pray that every one of these talented musicians get the opportunity and freedom to release their God-given talents in a godly environment.

Will be praying too! Not sure have the details but I gather you're having some health issues and I will surely be praying for you.

How depressing! I need to listen to something lively to get that somber tune out of my head.

I heard VP say that he felt that the US was on the wrong side in WWII. It was at a "Research Fellowship" at Rome City in the early 80s. He also denied that the Holocaust occurred and promoted such books at "The Myth of the 6 Million" which denies the Holocaust. All I can say is that God blesses those who bless Israel. Have you seen the book, "Jerusalem, Where Empires Die", by Lester Summerall? He shows how every empire from the Assyrians to the British have been irrestistably drawn to move against Jerusalem. "From that point in time, those empires have been judged by God and doomed to destruction." He asks the question, "Will America die at Jerusalem?" Another more recent book is very enlightening on the history of Jerusalem and America's relationship to it: It's called "The Fight for Jerusalem" by Dore Gold. God did sovereignly restore the nation of Israel, just as He promised to do. He will sovereignly fulfill every promise made to Israel. Of all the egregious sins committed by TWI leadership, I'd have to put anti-semitism right up there.

Lone Wolf, I agree with you. In fact, I was thinking about Cyrus in regard to VPW just the other day as well. It's been 20 years since I left TWI. I've thought more about it in the past week or two since joining GS cafe than I have in quite a while. (I was in for 13 years, Corps, married to clergy etc.) I feel like the passage of time and God's gracious faithfulness to heal has put a perspective on my experiences in TWI. If God can use a pagan king (BTW I believe that if you study Persian history Cyrus was just as bloodthirsty and ruthless as the rest of the Persian rulers) or Balaam's donkey, He can use anyone and anything for His purposes. I'm not trying to defend VPW here or say whether or not he was a true believer, I'll let God judge him on that score. I can and do pray for mercy. Anyway, I was genuinely born-again during PFAL. I confessed Romans 10:9, 10 and spoke in tongues during the class. I was raised Catholic, but by the time I took the class at age 16 in 1974, I was a professing atheist. I was not born again until I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Saviour in PFAL. I consider most of the rest of what was taught in that class highly suspect but I have to give it credit. My life changed and no I longer spent my time partying but genuinely started seeking God. I had a new sense of adventure. Many of the experiences I had on the WOW field and in res WC were just plain great adventures and I think I'm a better person for them. I never would have had those experiences if not for TWI. All in all I have to say that my life is better for having been in. Again, I'm not trying to minimize the bad experiences many have had and I did have some bad ones too. But I can't imagine that my life would have been better without them. Again, I'm not trying to defend the sin and deception that ran deep in TWI. When I became aware of the fact of VP's and Martindale's sexual and control habits I left. It was traumatic to find out something that you had thought was so good was not. But God is bigger than any man or organization. I do believe that God touched my life and called me serve Him. When I went into the Way Corps I made a solemn vow to God to serve Him with my life, I gave it to Him completely and I was devastated when I thought that I had made a worthless vow. Then by God's grace He showed me that He wasn't done with me and He allowed me to continue to serve Him. I'm sure there are many of my fellow TWI brothers and sisters with a similar perspective. I also met my dear husband of 25 years in the Way Corps and many lifelong friends. I feel a connection to all who were in TWI whether I knew them or not and it's great to reconnect with some old friends and acquaintances here and make some new ones. So thanks Lone Wolf for a great observation!

Happy Birthday Fellowshipper! Is it still your birthday down under? Hope you have a great day!

Hi RainbowsGirl. I don't know where Kay is now, but she was my WOW sister in Richmond, VA in 1975-76. That was a nice testimony about her. She was a really sweet, beautiful girl. If you find her, tell her hi for me. (Karie)

Though an army may encamp against me, My heart shall not fear; Though war may rise against me, In this I will be confident. One thing I have desired of the Lord All the days of my life, To behold the beauty of the Lord, And to inquire in His temple For in the time of trouble He shall hide me in His pavilion; In the secret place of His tabernacle He shall hide me; He shall set me high upon a rock. Psalm 27:3,4,5 These are words which gave me comfort while grieving for the unspeakable evil which killed so many of the best and brightest, young and old at Virginia Tech. May God grant comfort and peace to those more immediately connected to the tragedy and to a grieving nation and protection from future harm.

Wow, what a great poem! Did you write it? What a great talent! You should write! I'm sure that God will restore the years that were lost. Let Him take care of you! It's been 20 years since I left TWI and God has been so good and faithful to restore everything was lost in those 13 years and much more.

Amen to that!

No, I'm pretty sure I tossed it but then it's hard to say what's lurking in that garage of ours... Fellowshipper, you are welcome to wear your Corps nametag to our house anytime, we'd just be glad to see you!

I noticed with great pride that I shot up from being a Newbie in March to "Advanced Member". I was wondering if I get a cool nametag to wear to meetings to show that I so much more "Advanced" than the rest of the newbies??? I could strut around and think I'm better than anyone else. JK, LOL! Thanks all you really cool GS mods for providing such a great resource.

He was married to Diane then. I think they split up shortly after POP but I haven't kept in touch.

I agree. John was a good friend "back in the days" when I was involved with "reaearch" with TWI. I'm sorry to read about the troubles at CES. I remember being in Israel on a Bible Land Tour in the 80s and walking around the Old City trying to bargain with shopkeepers for souvenirs with John and his then wife. It was fun hanging out with them

It seems that there are two parts to Oakspear's query, 1. What are the circumstances of your leaving TWI and 2. Did you re-evaluate your beliefs after leaving? So I'm splitting my reply into two parts at least. First the circumstances of leaving: It started when I went on the Bible Lands Tour, I believe it was 1985 or 86. VPW had recently died and we had been reassigned from CA to Wisconsin. I was miserable in Wisconsin. I had to leave the work I was doing at UCLA on my Ph.D. and I was struggling with depression over that. On the tour in Israel, an old friend confided in me something that she told me she had never told anyone else, not even her husband, that she had had sex with VP on the motorcoach and that there were many others that had similar experiences. I would never have believed her were it not for the obvious distress that she was in over this and her need for someone to confide in. I did my best to help her with it but it overloaded my brain. Here I was, miserable in Wisconsin and this was what the “man of God” was all about. I “lockboxed” the information but it weighed heavily on my brain for months. Then came Corps Week and the Passing of the Patriarch. At that point, I was done, and left Wisconsin for California to finish my degree. I didn’t leave my husband,but we were separated while he stayed behind to tend to the “ministry” work in Wisconsin. Finally in January of 1987 we officially resigned from our position and moved back to CA. We left Wisconsin behind on New Year’s Day of 1987, with everything we owned in the world packed into a small U-haul truck.