wrdsandwrks

Good point here Linda. God didn't hate Esau in the sense of even not loving him, it was in the sense of rejecting him from the inheritance of the birthright. Rms 9:11 for the children not yet being born, not having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls. God knew in His foreknowledge that Esau would sell his birthright. Hebs 12:17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected... Linda, Looking forward to the more later... BTW Your dissertation sounds very interesting. I very interested in the Jewish festivals and their prophetic significance. Like to hear more about what you're learning. Dan, I think this line of reasoning applies to the prayer question as well. Esau hadn't been born yet and he was rejected before birth. Did that mean he didn't have the freedom of will to choose to sell his birthright. No, it just means that God knew beforehand that he was going to do it and could pronounce his rejection and Jacob's election before the twins were born. Similar to prayer, if as Calvinists believe, a person is predestined to be saved, no amount of prayer will change that destiny. Don't believe it works like that. Intercession changes hearts. God knows beforehand what's going to happen, doesn't mean that we shouldn't pray because our fate or those we love can't be changed.

Sounds like fun, as long as it's not on a cornfield in Ohio.

Great stuff, Shifra. It made me cry. So glad your're out there doing what you do. I really wanted to have home births for my two children but the insurance only the covered Dr/hospital route so I went along with it because of financial considerations.

Man, I went from not hearing anything about Mick for so many years to rejoicing that he had a book published and selling well on Amazon, to finding out that no that wasn't him it was his brother? to now this. I'm so sorry that we lost another good one. I hope one day we can have a 9th corps reunion in heaven. We'll let Dick DiN*nno and Patty Faye and Lenny and whoever else wants to share for as long as they want.

I probably would have chosen some other questions to describe my doctrinal position but here's my best shot at it: T = true F = false U = unsure Adam and Eve are historical figures, who lived 5000 - 7000 years ago. T/F/U I'll give this an equivocal T. I definitely believe they were historical. I believe they were created by God and I think the Bible indicates from the time spans in Genesis that this was at about the time you indicate. Jesus of Nazareth uniquely represented the Creator as His Son. T/F/U T The risen Jesus Christ is my Lord. T/F/U T The Book of Job is allegorical. That is, it attempts to explain human suffering using fictional characters. T/F/U F (It starts off, There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job...) The disciple John, one of "the twelve", wrote 5 Books: John, 1John, 2John, 3John, and Revelation. T/F/U T Paul wrote Hebrews. T/F/U U ( Don't think anyone really knows who wrote Hebrews) Moses wrote Genesis. T/F/U T David wrote the 23rd Psalm. T/F/U T Paul's doctrine of "by faith alone" contradicts James' doctrine, as recorded in the Book of James. T/F/U F Four were crucified with Jesus. T/F/U U I speak in tongues in my private prayer life. T/F/U T God loves homosexuals. T/F/U T Homosexuality is not a sin. T/F/U F God does not hate. T/F/U F Let's see, he hates: A proud look A lying tongue Hands that shed innocent blood A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil A false witness who speaks lies And one who sows discord among brethren (Proverbs 6:16) The perverse mouth (Proverbs 8:13) Thinking evil against a neighbor and a false oath (Zech 8:17) The deeds and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans (Rev. 2:6,15) 1 Cor. 12 says that all nine "manifestations" of the spirit are the privilege of everyone who has been "born again" by confessing Jesus as their lord, and believing God raised him from the dead. (When combined with Romans 10:9 and other scriptures.) T/F/U T (The manifestation of the Spirit is given to each for the profit of all.) The prayer of a believer can move God to do something He would not otherwise have done. T/F/U F Is this a trick question? I believe prayer does change things,otherwise why pray? But of course God knows beforehand the end from the beginning. Mormonism, Catholicism, and JW’s are perversions of Christianity. T/F/U (Have to go with T for Mormonism and JW. On Catholicism, definitely has some doctrinal things I don't agree with, but I know some good Christians who are Catholic. Some of Jesus’ teaching is impossible to carry out. T/F/U F. (If by teaching you mean his commands, with God all things are possible.) "Sin consciousness" is not in the believer’s self-interest. T/F/U I don't think these words are in the Bible. Conscience is, that's the thing that by the grace of God and with the urging of the Holy Spirit makes you aware of sin so that you can repent, confess and be cleansed from it. Confessing and repenting are definitely in the believer's self-interest so when I sin I'd better be conscious of it. The canon is closed. Another authentic letter of Paul will never surface. T/F/U T There are authentic apostles and prophets of God living and ministering today. T/F/U T Requiring narrative answers (short or long): When Jesus told Nicodemus that he "must be born again," what did he mean? He meant to be born "from above". What are your thoughts on the Fourth commandment (not to work on the sabbath)? I have a lot of thoughts about it, like why would it be the only one of the 10 commandments not still in effect? It's certainly true that man needs rest. Okay, How about I don't know? I try to make sure I have one day a week where I can rest.

Agreement here! Suda, really helps put things in perspective for me. Even 20 years out it's still confusing how something that seemed so good and that put me on a path of seeking and knowing God could have such a root of corruption. I'm thankful for your wisdom. Dot, I got goosebumps reading your prayer, I know I received from it and I'm so thankful for God's healing power being released here. I want to be your "prayer partner".

Another great testimony! Great thing is how God works through earthen vessels so He can get the glory. I know God's gifts and callings are irrevocable, so I'd say "go for it." I really feel He wants to work in you even greater than ever before.

He's a minister from Texas. I think he lives near Dallas. He has a ministry called Glory of Zion. I've heard him preach, he has a prophetic ministry, always seems to be right on to me.

Linda - LOL I read this on an internet Christian news site. Woman Survives Over 60 Foot Drop in Bridge Collapse—"When I said 'Jesus' I felt like He took over and took care of me" Here's the link: http://www.breakingchristiannews.com/artic...rt.html?ID=4280 (edited to remove double link)

Jonny, I've been thinking about this since yesterday. I want to say this in the right way. I don't know what you're doing now with the gift of working of miracles and healing but, I just feel like there are many more miracles and healings to be done by you stretching forth your hands to heal and to bless. I pray that remembering this great miracle here would be a reminder that the best is yet to come and to encourage you to stretch out your faith when there are opportunities to minister and watch the power of God work in you to bring glory to Him. He will back up your words and prayers for the sick and hurting with signs and wonders following!

Shifra, great idea. I remember some really sweet times on Bless Patrol in the 9th Corps at Emporia. It was one of the few times when you actually had time to spend quality one on one time with someone you maybe didn't know very well. There were some really great people that made an impact on me that I still remember from spending a night wandering around the grounds at the W.C. of E. more than 25 years ago. I remember spending time like that with Milagros Flores and Padraig B*tterly, both from other countries who taught me about what it was like in their country (Venezuala and Ireland). There was one 7th Corps guy that I did BP with at the ROA (and I can't remember his name) but he taught me by example to pray for every person that we saw as we walked around the grounds. It's something I still try to do today.(Not that I do bless patrol at my house but I do wake up in the middle of the night to pray sometimes). He really did take the "bless" in Bless Patrol seriously. I think this was before I went in res. so when I did BP in res. I really tried to pray all night long. Ususally I was so exhilirated after spending a whole night praying that I didn't mind so much not sleeping. Of course it wore right off during class (ZZZZZZZZ).

Happy Birthday! and Congrats on finding true love! Wishing you all the best!

Yes! I agree, with Rascal. Dot, you are one of the strongest, most faith-filled women I know. I see you fighting for those who need someone to stand up for them. We all have places where we've been hurt, but I believe that those same places are where people like you can stand up and help others be healed.

Great testimony Jonny! It really inspires me. I pray that there are many more great miracles and salvations like this in your life and those you inspire. IMO that's what life's all about, loving Jesus and doing the works He did and greater. Lord give us more of you!

How about those world-famous undefeated Sliding Firkins? I happen to know one of the star players.

Hi Roger! Nice to hear you're doing well! Karie (Tourne) Masterson here. Say hi to Darlene for me.

Nice article. Thanks Shortfuse. I've been touched by Lonnie Frisbee's story. Learning about him and TWI's historical connection to the Jesus Freak movement is just one more of the many things I've gained here at the GS cafe. This may be off topic but, talking about contemporary Christian music, you know you're getting old when you can't understand what your son's crazy music is about but you're just glad it's Christian. Ever hear of this band, Haste the Day? It's one of my 15 year old son's favorite bands. (Not mine) If you're brave enough, click on the name below and let me know what you think. It's not exactly what the Slate article calls "saccharine" is it? Haste the Day!

Sure count me in. (((((all you guys)))))

"I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." You got pretty close for a paraphrase. It communicates well! Great stuff. I recently read Madeleine L'Engle's fiction book, "Many Waters". It communicates in fiction a vision of how the Nephilim operated in the time of Noah. If nothing else it was an entertaining read. PS (Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I also recently read George MacDonald's "Lileth". She is a character from Jewish mythology who was said to be Adam's first wife, she appears in C.S. Lewis' the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. If you remember the Witch is said to be not a daughter of Eve but of Lileth. Not sure it relates here but it's an interesting read also.)

Interesting post, I've also been interested in the subject of the Nephilim. I've listened to some teachings by Chuck Missler on the Nephilim. I ran across this quote in Appendix 25 (on Nephilim) of Bullinger's Bible: "Moreover, we have in these mighty men, the "men of renown," the explanation of the origin of the Greek mythology. That mythology was no mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, and memories, and legends of the doings of that mighty race of beings; and was gradually evolved out of the "heroes" of Gen. 6:4. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin formed an easy step to their being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks."

Again, Dot, this is a really deep thread. I think VP had a pattern of picking on those he sniffed out had been abused as children. Excie, God bless you for your courage. I pray that all the precious things that were stolen from you will be restored in a deep way within your soul and in your life. You are a precious gift, and a feisty one at that!

Wow, that is an awesome quote, gave me goosebumps, amen to that!

Dear ((((Bowtwi)))) Thanks for sharing this. I pray and believe that your children are blessed and protected by your vigilence. ((((Rascal))) too! I'm glad to know you both!

Wow. This has been a very deep thread. I tried to read through all of it yesterday, I think I got through most of it. I understand that some people think the original topic was derailed by the sexual misconduct of the "Teacher" of the class. But it just goes to show that you can't really separate the message from the messenger, especially if the messenger severely wounded you or someone you love. I think Paul talked about being "living epistles, known and read of all men", in Corinthians. People are going to read your life by how you treated others, not by how much Bible knowledge you spouted. Bottom line is VP's life didn't line up with what he taught in PFAL. There have been many Bible teachers whose ministries are derailed by the discovery of sin in their life. However, those that I've studied that were genuine ministers of the gospel, "fell" into sin and either repented of it or lost their ministries over it. VP's life doesn't seem to fit into that mold, he had a "doctrine" that he taught to his inner sanctum that was destructive, selfish, manipulative, and evil. Many were hurt, some died because of it and because of the lack of loving care for God's people in TWI. I did get born-again during PFAL, I spoke in tongues during PFAL. I had some great adventures in TWI, some not so great. I met my dear husband and some awesome friends. I still feel a connection to those who were in TWI, which is why GS is such a cool place. I'm thankful to reconnect here with some people I knew and to meet those I didn't know. I don't think God is done with any of us. I'm eternally grateful to God for reaching down to me and graciously saving me and delivering me from the kingdom of darkness into the light of His marvelous Son. I personally think that most of what was taught in PFAL is doctrinally suspect. The most important thing IMO to learn from the Bible is how have a relationship with God, the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Sprit. PFAL taught me to confess Jesus Christ as Lord but not how to make Him my Lord, Saviour and friend in day to day life. Without a relationship with Jesus Christ, I think we miss out on a huge part of the Christian life. I've learned since leaving TWI to run to Jesus for everything. When life is great I run to Him with praise and thanksgiving. I run to Him with all my questions, I run to Him for healing and emotional deliverance. I run to Him when I'm hurt or I don't understand something. The worst times in my life are those times when I've felt like I can't get a hold of God. Jesus is the Great High Priest who sympathizes with us in all our weaknesses, the one on the throne of grace where we obtain mercy and find grace to help every time we need it.

Dear Catcup, Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together for us. Your credentials plus experience plus obvious compassion and godly concern for others makes you a precious gift to this forum and to anyone you minister to.