George Aar

Uh, speaking in tongues is only "miraculous" if you believe the nonsense it's practitioners sell with it. If one believes, as I do, that SIT is simply an innate, natural ability, peculiar to those with the neccessary mental and physical equipment for language, all that's needed for a person to "manifest" is to lower their inhibitions to the point where they will do it. Speaking gibberish is really NOT all that spectacular to someone who is not predisposed to accepting belief in the supernatural. What is it evidence of? One can't understand any of it, therefore the only convincing is done when we buy into the explanation given with it. For an alternate explanation might I suggest: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0...9252010-7513635 Great (neccessary?) reading for all those with a penchant for cleaving to the paranormal. Of course, that's MY opinion... geo.

Sorry, I meant "your MILEAGE may vary"... geo.

Goey, I think you take me too seriously. What with one bad shoulder and the beginnings of arthritis in all my knuckles I doubt I physically have it in me anymore. Sure fun to talk tough though... geo.

The thing I always notice about "miracle" stories, is that they're always in the past tense. People LOVE to talk about the time they prayed for so-and-so's headache or cold and then it IMMEDIATELY went away! What they're not so eager to do is DEMONSTRATE that healing ability in the here and now. Repeatability would go a long ways towards convincing me of the supernatural. Unfortunately, I can't think of anybody who can do repeat performances of miracles. The best they seem to be able to do is tell you "about the time..." Certainly a big part of the draw of WayWorld - especially to the young and inexperienced (which we were) - was the promise of miraculous benefits abounding. All we had to do was have a need, BELIEVE, and voila!, instant deliverance! Problem is, it never happened that way. The Cosmic Vending Machine of God seems to be one tempermental piece of equipment. Every now and then it seems to work for someone, somewhere, but never for you in particular. Somehow there's always something you didn't do quite right. You need to "build your believing", the "temperature of believing" in the surrounding community isn't hot enough, or some goddam thing. And then, of course, there's always the possibility that you haven't been "abundantly sharing" enough. Gawd, what a crock. We were lied to people. There's no Santa Claus, there's no all-loving man with a long white beard floating around in space waiting on our every need, and the laws of physics are not overridden for our convenience. Gravity, aging, disease, and utimately death are all things we have to learn to deal with. Praying, believing, or waving a magic wand has never shown itself to be an effectual way of handling any of it - to me, anyway. I guess YMMV, but I don't think so... geo.

Hell, I think you should go back and kick his a$$ anyway. Just for sport. Farking jerkoffs. I still regret not giving a certain corps gimp a good dusting. Maybe we'll still cross paths someday... geo.

Alfakat, Re: "perhaps there is more to it than your analysis would deduce" No, actually I'm pretty sure that there was a whole lot LESS to it. Talk is cheap, and that's about all I'd ever gotten outa WayWorld - or church, for that matter. Speaking in tongues made me think they were on to something, but when I realized what a scam that was, well the party was over... geo.

Another great quote from that site: "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." (Charles Darwin) geo.

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." (Aldous Huxley) For more pithy witticisms and arguments somewhat contrary to Roy's, check out this site: http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/default.htm geo.

I never knew Dixie before her "healing", but had a little contact with her after. I was very excited about her story - the way it had been relayed to me, anyway - and asked her about the great "miracle of healing" she'd experienced. She was rather lackadaisical about it and sort of gave me a brush-off. Maybe she'd told the story once too often and was getting weary of it - or maybe there was less to it than we had been told? I do know that her eyes, though sorta blue, still weren't altogether "normal" looking, at least to me, and she wore glasses. Whatsamatter, God couldn't figure out how to heal her properly? And I noticed too,... she was still an albino. Maybe I shouldn't have? And Alfakat, as far as God working in me, don't bet any serious money on it, pal. There's never been ANY evidence of that in my life, at all. Of course for the faithful, reality needn't intrude on a good story, eh? geo.

I made a blind man lame once. geo.

Why not just call it what it is? "TWI Lite" - "NOW WITH 20% LESS CONEDEMNATION!" geo.

A link to this site is already here at GS, but take a look: http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/cultsthe.htm The owner of the site definitely has his agenda, but lots of worthwhile info. geo.

In the late 80's my wife and I were sort of dazed and confused living a way out west. We thought the best thing we could do to "Move the Word" (gawd, THAT was actually important to me at one time, sheesh) was to go on staff and "help rebuild the ministry". About a year and a half of that crap (working on staff) had pretty much thoroughly disillusioned us. We finally started to see the organization for what it always was - a cheap conjob. When Loyboy made his infamous lunchtime anouncement "It's either him (Geer) or me, and don't give me any of that 'God' crap", well the decision was pretty easy. We were packing the next day. Years later, after I had pretty much written off my WayWorld years, I stumbled upon Waydale. What a catharsis! I had no idea of the amount of bitterness and anger towards TWI that I had bottled up inside me. I posted veraciously, daily, adamantly, with great vitriol and bile and invective (and maybe a little humor now and then). God knows how much money I would have spent with some shrink to get the same amount of therapy, but I'm sure it would have been many thousands. Once I got that out of my system, I post here occasionally, but am now just the sweet, cuddly, little stud-muffin that everyone has grown to know and love... geo.

Of course then there's also "Black Pietre", but I think he and Santa had a falling out a few years ago... geo.

The only thing I can add to the mix is that the three bags of gold that St. Nicholas gave for the girls' doweries, somehow came to be used as the symbol for a pawn shop. Traditionally (and I think there's still one or two in Seattle that do) pawnshops would always have a group of three spheres hanging from their sign. These spheres were supposedly to represent the three bags of gold of St. Nicholas. Now can anybody tell me, What the hay does Santa Claus have to do with pawnshops? I haven't a clue, though I often wondered... geo.

This is what makes Thanksgiving the one great holiday of the year - and lightyears above Christmas - no gifts, no endless merchandising, no extensive decorations, and, NO music. After fifty or so of these "most wonderful times of the year", it's gets a little old, no? I swear if I hear "Little Drummer Boy" ONE MORE TIME, somebody's going down... geo.

Zix, Yeah, I got that, I was just trying to point out that when it comes to aberrant sexual behaviors and desires, Japan needed NO help from the west. They can concoct debauchery with the best of them. Always could... geo.

Oh, now you've gone and done it. Broached my favorite topic in the world - Japanese prints. Yes, numerous prints made during Edo-era Japan were of an erotic nature. These were referred to as "Shun ga" prints (literally "spring pictures). I heard estimates that as much as 40%of all Japanese prints were originally shunga. Books of shunga (called "pillow" books) were customarily given to young girls approaching marriageable age. I guess these were supposed to be a sort of primer for what to expect on their wedding night. As for Japanese society prior to contact with the west, well, it wasn't exactly heaven on earth. It was a very strictly stratified society, where the Shoguns, daimyo, and their Samurai ran everything with an iron (and usually brutal) hand. If you happened to have been born into the upper classes of society, life was good. But if you were in the worker or merchant class, it was a bit less refined. Deference to those of higher class wasn't just a social amenity, it was enforced quite physically. A notable case being in the late 18th century a merchant was caught standing by the roadside wearing clothes that were a little too flashy for the liking of the passing Daimyo. The merchant was summarily decapitated. (the samurai had the unquestioned right of "kirisute", meaning they could kill whoever they wanted, no questions asked). And with regards to sexual improprieties, the Japanese needed no help from the west. In the early 17th century the Kabuki theatre originally was performed by an all-woman cast. In actuality, it was simply a live-action avertisement for the services of the prostitute-actresses. The Japanese government put a stop to that by requiring all the actors in Kabuki to be male. So then they started using young boys for the actors, and STILL indulged in the after-hours sexual trade, only with boys instead of women for the sex providers. The government again stepped in and demanded that all the actors be grown men, and further, that actors portraying women's roles (called "onnagata" - "in the manner of a woman") must shave the forelock of their hair - so as to make them sexually unattractive (hey, it's a Japanese thing, I don't get it either). To cover this bald spot the onnagata would wear a purple cloth over their forehead ( a "murasaki boshi"). The theatre still had quite a reputation for sexual goings on, even with all the government restraints. The onnagata were routinely transvestites in real life anyway, and had somewhat odd habits, to put it mildly. And yes, all this happened all on their own, without any corrupting influences from the west. On the other hand, MUCH of Japanese culture and life is absolutely sublime. They have a handle on certain aspects of life that the west will probably never know. But, to get back to the movie. I'm confused. I heard the review by the critic on NPR, and he panned it pretty severely. Then I listened to Leonard Malton, and he said it was the greatest thing since "Gone With the Wind". I guess I'll haveta see it myself... geo.

I dunno, maybe it's just me... Whenever I tell anyone that I was in a cult for 15 years or so, they shrug, maybe grunt out some sort of affirmation (uhuh), and promptly disregard it. People just don't care much about what you DID. They're much more interested in who you ARE... geo.

I don't really think of "alternative medicine" as being an alternative. Looky, if there was some sort of all-natural, herbal remedy that actually worked, and successfully completed a competent testing regimen and was proven effecacious, it would be published in the peer-reviewed journals of the medical community. After additional testing - with similar results - by other professionals, if the treatment still showed itself to be an effective one, it would become part of the "normal" medical protocols. Nothing "alternative" about it anymore. So if you're want to try the "all natural" "alternative" approach to your health care FIRST, just be aware that you're simply gambling on an unknown quantity. You're - by definition - playing around with treatments that are unproven. Maybe you'll get lucky and get some good result, maybe not. Maybe you'll only think you do, and the underlying problem will grow worse. But the bottom line is, you're just shooting in the dark. No, I don't think that our mainstream medical professionals walk on water, or always follow their own procedures properly. And they are sometimes frauds, crooks, and charlatans in their own right. But at least we have a system in place that tries to address problems and records and quantifies the successes and failures. To work outside of that system, despite it's flaws, is an exercise in foolishness and wishful thinking... geo.

I can't say that the trailers are even much of an incentive. Could the costumes be anymore repellent? Seriously creepy looking stuff. geo.

Oh my, Kit, I could write a book about this. Don't have the heart for it, though. "If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candied nuts, then we'd all have a Merry Christmas." or how about, "Of all the words of voice or pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'" Yes, indeed, as the decoupaged plague in my Aunt's kitchen always reminded me, "We're too soon old, And too late smart". From another one late to school, oh, well... geo.

I'm sorta looking forward to THE LAST SAMURAI, but I do have some apprehensions. Being somewhat aquainted with Japanese history, I hope they pull off something better than that old TV miniseries "Shogun", which was positively dreadful... geo.

Sudo, Too easy, Claude Reins, CASABLANCA... How about another classic Bogey flick, "Badges? We don need no stinkin' BADGES!" geo.

M&A, Ha! That confirms a long-held suspicion of mine. I always thought that the only reason E.H. made it to the top of the leadership pig-pile was because his wife was a looker (with a nice rack IIRC) and LoyBoy wanted a whack at her. Gawd, can it get ANY more perverse? geo.