George Aar

Yeah, give it a little time, this stuff sorta fades away after awhile. I had weird dreams about WayWorld occasionally just after we left staff, but it wasn't long before that stuff was all history. After 15 years out, it hardly seems possible that I could've been involved with such a jerk-off organization. I can't imagine that I actually believed the tripe that they served up as "gospel". It musta been somebody else using my name... geo.

"Touched by an Angel" absolutely the most evil insidious program ever devised, "Oprah" is a close second... geo.

If I remember the book correctly, it basically espouses the idea of beating the hell out of your dog whenever he misbehaves and throwing him a tidbit when he responds in EXACTLY the manner that you desire. I guess it works for dogs... geo.

Uh, Liar, "I hear earballs being knocked together. The king of kings and the lord of lords won't be spit on next time, will he now?" If I may, lose the "earballs" terminology ASAP. Your bias becomes a little too apparent too quickly (outside of a certain corn-fed huckster from Ohio, I know of no one on earth who has - or would ever - use the term. Sheesh, gave me the creeps just seeing it in print). We may not know much about Kings and Lords and whatnot, but being the dedicated Wayfers that we were, we know a thing or two about spit. I thought it was something that loving men of God did all the time, no? geo.

Zixar, http://skepdic.com/ Since when did you start going to MY church? geo.

WTH, Puhleaze! Mr. Wierwille's "accomplishments" will be forgotten sooner than Billy Sunday's, Jim Bakker's, or Peter Popoff's. He wasn't even that good of a conman. His one great skill was that he could pick his audience well. It took him a while to perfect the ability, but once he did, idealistic, young, vulnerable, inexperienced kids were his target audience. Garner their attention by attacking evil, strawman, "establishment" enemies of his own making (the churches, religion, society in general), and setting up an "us and them" mentality so as to draw his audience into his fold ("if nobody in the world loves you, you will know that I have died"). That's why folks with a little academic training or just life experience were usually not easy prey for Wierwille's schtick. It was too easy to see through for all but the truly naive and needy. And if someone still clings to the Vicster's B.S. after having finally gotten a little experience and maybe some education, I dunno, but personally I think there must be some larger mental issues going on. He was just too transparent of a huckster and egomaniac... geo.

The biggest parallel, We had the power to "go home" with us all the time, only the spin from Oz's inhabitants kept us in limbo... (spending a humid, cricket-filled evening in Sihanoukville) geo.

Ex10th, I remember something about the "flammable" snow story. It's pretty shaky now, but didn't Mr. Wierwille posit that in the final days earth would be consumed by fire and that fire would be fueled by snow? Something about how water contains hydrogen and oxygen, and in snow it's very aireated so there was obviously something very explosive about it. Well, that's what passed for "science" in WayWorld. A scintilla of truth and a whopping dose of B.S. The sad part is - we bought it! I'm gonna go soak my head now... geo.

I can rub my stomach and pat my head at the same time... geo.

Or just click here: http://205.143.139.58/ipac20/ipac.jsp?sess...&index=TL#focus You're welcome, geo.

St.John, The "Red Thread" teaching was a rip-off of a sermon Oral Roberts did called "The Fourth Man". Might check with ORU for a copy? geo.

"If the Bible is in error anywhere you can't trust it everywhere and you might as well just chuck the whole thing" My people that's a tremendous truth. THAT'S RIIIIGHT!... geo.

Mike, Re:"The science that went into all that technology came in many bundles, extending back 400 years. Experimental believing was involved in every bundle." Again on the contrary, there was no shortage of religious belief during the dark ages, yet there was zero advancement in science. It wasn't until man finally started to shake off the over-bearing religious/superstitious mindset that real science and technological advancements started to take place. It wasn't monks locked away in cloisters, praying their lives away (or speaking in tongues) that made any headway in improving man's lot in life. It was the cold, unemotional - often godless - "scientist" who was incredibly concerned with undeniable, verifiable, REPEATABLE proof that paved the way for man to creep out of the shadows of ignorance, pestilence, poverty, and superstition and live the life of comparative comfort,health, ease, and rich culture that we enjoy today (at least in the western world). Superstition is a waste of time, life, and resources. And if you can't prove it, it's likely that's all that it is... geo.

Mike, "Can you name one thing that?s been proved beyond a shadow of a doubt to you?" And who said anything about a "shadow of a doubt"? There's all sorts of things that I accept as true that may well be erroneous - in fact it's almost a dead certainty. I THINK that the earth's about 23,000 miles in circumference, that it's core is molten nickle, and that it's the third planet from the sun. I don't have any proof for any of that. But it's what I learned in school and there's been no credible person to ever refute it AND it doesn't have any profound effect in how I live my life anyway, so the ramifications of believing falsely are pretty minor. And if someone has better data regarding any of it and can set me straight where I'm misinformed - no problem, I'll listen. That's not what we're talking about though. We're talking about a belief system that has very substantial effects on how I handle my life. What I do for a living, who I deal with, who I marry, how I raise my children, what I do with my money, my own and my family's healthcare, ad infinitum. The effects in one's life of their religious beliefs are VERY profound. So if those beliefs are based on something as squishy as SIT and other charasmatic goings on, it's only logical (and responsible) to check into it a little deeper, no? But no, that's not what the true believer usually does. All too often he adopts the idea that his beliefs - despite the dearth of any proof - are the (only) true ones, and wants to stop his ears and hum if anyone questions his reasoning. That's not skepticism. That's blatant credulousness. geo.

"Being eager with skepticism leads nowhere." On the contrary, I think the case could easily be made that a strong skeptical mindset is what made it possible to walk on the moon or send rovers to Mars. You don't do that kind of science without a strong attachment to reality. Rockets don't travel to the moon because you believe they will. They make it because someone took the time to PROVE it was possible. geo.

But Mike, you HAVE no data. At least you've yet to share any. Just suppositions, statements, anecdotes but no data. If there were real, verifiable, repeatable evidence of any spiritual matters, then skeptics would believe in them as well. There is not. The fact that some people have convinced themselves (over many years, maybe) to believe in the veracity of crop circles, Bigfoot, UFOs, astrology, or perpetual motion machines does not make it so. It only shows that they have a penchant for believing in the paranormal. Its not proof of anything else. geo.

I'm sorry Mike, but believing things without any verifiable proof is hard-core, undeniable, major-league gullibility. It's nowhere near skepticism, sorry... geo.

Mike, Re:"I know that God operates in such a way as to elude 5-senses researchers and skeptics. God protects their free will believing (or NONbelieving) by leaving few unambiguous traces of His interventions." So would you say then that God has a soft-spot in his heart for the gullible? geo.

Quite some time ago a Dr. William T. Samarin spent several years studying SIT practitioners. Here's a quote from his subsequent book: "It is extremely doubtful that the alleged cases of xenoglossia (miraculous speech in real languages) are real. Anytime one attempts to verify them, he finds that the stories have been greatly distorted or that the 'witness' turns out to be incompetent or unreliable from a linguistic point of view" (Tongues of Men and Angels, MacMillan, 1972, pp.112-115). Anyone read the book? geo.

"Actually George, I've not noticed any connection between intellect or eloquence and fluency in speaking in tongues." I would suggest then, that your experiences and mine differ greatly in that regard. I noticed it CONSTANTLY, and it bothered me no end. I could never figure out why the retarded guy in twig only had about three "words" in his vocabulary or the 3 and 4 year-olds repeated the exact same thing over and over. Wasn't it God giving the utterance? Didn't seem like it to me... And with regards to the "benefits", again our experiences are markedly disparate. Yes, at first it SEEMED like a big deal. WOW! Here was PROOF that God was real. But after a few months, and eventually years, of doing it, was it really all that profound anymore? Think about it. Almighty God concocts a bizarre way of talking to Himself to tell Himself how great He is. This doesn't seem a little odd to you? The actual good that this act performs still escapes me. You're sitting in your house, privately making incomprehensible noises to an invisible being, because He supposedly likes you to. And just what good does that do? No, I don't want a rundown of the reasons given in PFAL, just a common sense explanation of what is going on that could possibly be beneficial to the creator of the universe. You make noise. O.K. fine. What does that noise-making accomplish? Do the sounds infuriate the Devil? Maybe make him weak? How does that work? And if this noise-making is SOOOO powerful (as I'm led to believe) why is it that the effects of doing it - or NOT doing it (as I have NOT been for many years) are virtually impossible to measure? Personally, I know I've seen ZERO difference in my life since I ceased noise-making 15 or so years ago. geo.

I didn't vote either. None of choices really reflect my take on my WayWorld tenure. I do echo some of the other posters points though. I'm ashamed of my time "in" only because of how it highlights how gullible and naive I was. Sort of like having not only bought a "Pocket Fisherman", but then proclaiming to the world (for YEARS) what a wonderful device it truly was. VPW and Ron Popeil - seperated at birth? geo.

Ever notice that those folks in your "twig" who were a little slow or had an obvious mental handicap were ALWAYS very inept at the supposed "worship manifestations"? And those that were bright, articulate, or multi-lingual already were just as likely to be very adept at it? Almost makes you think that maybe it has something to do with "natural" abilities rather than spiritual ones. And what the hey does Almighty God want with us speaking in gibberish anyway? Just how is making unintelligible sounds - in private - supposed to bring some sort of great benefits to Him or to our lives? That never made any sense to me. But then His ways are so much higher than mine, who am I to question, right? "Just go along with the program George! Geeze Pete, why do you haveta question stuff anyway?" Yeah, yeah, shuah, shuah,... geo.

Why don't they get it? Because they care more about their sacred "doctrine" than they do about people. Same thing goes for hard-core communists, environmentalists, or "whole food" nazis. Idealism is the real problem. When that flourishes, common sense and empathy go out the window... geo.

Planning new threads? Be still my heart! geo.

FA, If you really want this crap, take a look here: http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?author=W...sic&st=sr&ac=qr Most all of the basic B.S. of PFAL is there, some reasonably priced, some not so. You honestly want to pass this on to your posterity, eh? I'd sooner pass on a nice social disease 'er somthin, but, what do I know? geo.