George Aar

Oh, and I meant to mention, isn't it odd that virtually ALL of the supposed attributes of great men of the Bible were already used (MANY times) in the mythologies of the "pagans"? Virgin births, superhuman strength, healing powers, divine insight, and then the (required?) rejection by the heathen hordes and even - quite often - a terrible, painful, humiliating death. Then, naturally, there's some sort of divine "gotcha" after all that, as the superhero's legacy deals a final, fatal blow to the rabble and despotic leaders. It's been written countless times before, but somehow, when it got transposed into the Bible, well, then it became the undisputed, UNCHALLENGEABLE, truth. Whatever...

I always find it interesting that Bible fundies have little problem discounting mythologies of Greeks or Romans or Hindus, but when it comes to the stories of THE BIBLE, well, they're beyond doubt, aren't they? To which I can only ask,...WHY? What makes The Bible so irrefutable in your mind? Why are the (obvious) legends of Noah, Joshua, Job, Moses, et al, beyond question? Even though to believe in them, you would have to believe that all the known laws of physics would have to be overridden for them to have actually happened? How did we ever become convinced that "God said it, I believe it, That settles it"? And what's more, how did we accept that THE BIBLE was what that aforementioned God "said"? We ridicule the Muslim extremists for their belief that they'll be rewarded for their acts of courage for blowing themselves up in the name of Allah, but have no problem thinking that we'll have wonderful heavenly rewards for all eternity ('cause God MADE us worthy, afterall, and who are you to argue with GOD? Huh, punk?) while all those who didn't share our beliefs we'll have to make do with something less (that is, if they're not frying for eternity in HELL). Jeezus, it's all a farking joke peepul. Wake up and smell the century...

When it comes to pondering any line of thought that may have the word "spiritual" in it, I have developed two basics rules to guide my actions: 1. It's all bull$hit. 2. When you come to the place where that particular line of reasoning or philosophy is making REAL sense to you and giving you great insight, refer to rule #1.

Paw, What about the Cubbies? God really blew his chances with me last season. All it would have taken was a Red Sox - Cubs world series and I'd have turned from my sinful ways. But NOOOOOO! Now I'm not just an agnostic, I'm an agnostic with an attitude...

"Anyone still into the Law of Believing and Receiving stuff?" Surely you jest (I'm sorry, I shouldn't call you Shirley). I've long since thrown ALL of such nonsense out. Baby, bathwater, soap, sponge, bathtub. It all went. And you know what's really remarkable? My life hasn't changed in any dramatic way whatsoever. Still the same sort of problems, "blessings", and all the in-between stuff. Life goes on despite my utter rejection of any Holy Thunderer or Celestial Micro Manager or "principles" that such like may espouse. Makes me wonder why anyone else still plays the game. Any con needs some sort of reward, ocaissionally, to keep the "mark" interested. I guess imagined rewards - plus the veiled threats of what will happen if you don't continue to play - are enough for some to keep playing. I've long since had my share, though...

G from O At the risk of following Galen into the land of TMI, the "room" is only necessary when one is seated on the appliance. Personally, I don't care for bumping into the rim of the toilet seat. But, then, that's just me...

Something else I should have noted, you should be sure to get a toilet with an "elongated front" rather than a round front. It gives the men in the house a little more "equipment" room. Unless space is really limited, it's the only kind of unit I'll put in a bath anymore. Round fronts are icky.

And don't forget all the kissing. Yes, we were to greet one another with an holy kiss! (those of the opposite sex, anyway, we weren't THAT into biblical accuracy). Every "twig" you went to, every "do", there were always lots of cute girls running up to you and giving you a big kiss. That might not sound like such a big deal, but for a homely, dumpy, less-than-popular, adolescent boy, it was a helluva sales technique. Wow! They like me! They really like me! (said in my best Sally Fields voice)

If you just want a toilet that works well (EVERY time), get a "pressure assist" toilet. Since the low flush (1.6 gallon) code went into effect 8 or 10 years ago there's been some VAST improvements in toilet design. I remodel kitchens and baths for a living (along with just about any other part of the house, but baths are sort of my mainstay) and have used just about every design out there, and the pressure-assist models are still my favorite. They have a small pressure tank inside of the porcelain tank of the toilet. The water for the flush cycle is pressurized by the incoming water, and when you trip the lever SHWOOOSH!, things happen. They're a little noisy, but damn, they work. Still only 1.6 gallons, but they work better than anything you've used previously, I promise. American Standard makes one called "The Water Miser" that I usually use, but that's only because I have an account with their local wholesaler. Kohler, Crane, Elger all have a pressure-assist model and all the brands use the same pressure tank (made by Sloan). Briggs also has a model called the "Vacuity" that works a little differently, but is still very effective. Whatever you do, don't buy a cheap toilet. The $70. or $80. models that are always on sale at the chain stores aren't worth the time to install them. They are junk. Plan on spending $200. - $250. and you'll get a pretty good unit. Add a Toto "Washlet" toilet seat bidet (about $450. - $600.) and your wife will love you even more.

Refiner, Just about everybody that was around WayWorld for more than a few months owned all sorts of research materials. Interlinears, lexicons, concordances, and naturally all the Way crap. And we DID use them quite frequently. The problem was, whenever we came to a "difficult" verse of scripture (i.e., one that did not line up with Way dogma), we were instructed to "hold it in abeyance" (those questions regarding the discrepences) until we "got" it (accepted the Way's spin). I had literally volumes of questions "held in abeyance" when I finally realized that the Vicster had been blowing smoke up my a$$ (for YEARS). Amazing how long it takes for the light to come on sometimes...

Oh, and about the salemanship thingy (what I really meant to post about before I got all nostalgic about Duluth), I remember very early in my TWI-daze hearing DocVic talking about how important it was to have professionally trained salespeople to promote PFAL. That always struck me as odd. I mean, if it was truly GOD'S WORD, why should it need a salespitch to sell it? Just one more of those things that I "held in obeyance" waiting for the day when it would all become clear. Well, that day has finally arrived. Not quite the way I'd envisioned it, somehow...

Dave, Yeah, a long strange trip indeed. Life picks up so much speed as you get older. I can hardly believe it was 25 YEARS ago I first went W.O.W.! I don't think you were doing the insurance bit when I was there. In fact, I don't remember what you were doing then, except playing at Sir Bens (or "Sir-Something-or-other's"). But that wasn't a paying gig, was it? Gawd, I'd love to see the North Shore again. Maybe spend a few days flyfishing on the French or the Sucker? Or, better yet, portage into one of the BWCA lakes for a weekend! Ooo, all I'd haveta do is pack up a few gallons of DEET and my flyrod. I wonder if wifey would wanna go? Sorry for the derail. And yes Oddone, we're MUCH smarter now. I'm sure of it. Much, much smarter. I mean, REALLY. Yes, smarter...

Refiner, Mr.Odd, Goey, et al, I know where you're "coming from" but I think there was still something else going on. To begin with I didn't have any respect for Mr. Wierwille. I grudgingly went along with taking "The Class" because I was smitten with the girl who "witnessed" to me (yeah, there's a unique story, eh?). Slowly through the tedious sessions (most of which I slept through), I began to side with Wierwille. I thought the "Four Crucified" was the coolest. By the time I "spoke in tongues" I was hooked. After that I had an investment of time, emotion, and self-interest in TWI dogma, and it was more difficult to see it for what it really was. But how did Wierwille make the transition? That's the real key. I think def is on the right track, but then that brings up another question, HOW does one go about "brainwashing"? How is one's innate skepticism broken down? How do you get one to abandon logic and accept bizarre doctrines without ANY proof? I think there are techniques utilized in PFAL that we haven't really caught onto yet. Or, maybe I'd just like to think it was more sophisticated than it really was?

The thing I STILL have not figured out, lo these many years later, is how the Vicster managed to convince me of the rightness of his doctrine, even though I couldn't follow his logic. I remember many times going to another running of "The Class", tormented by doubts about VPW's teaching on "pistis" ("believing or faith") or the teaching about I Cor. 12, or a dozen or so other basic tenets of Wierwilleism and having no idea how he could make the distinctions that he did regarding certain words or passages. I'd sit there listening to the tapes CONSCIOUSLY FORCING MYSELF to try to understand what he was saying. And, in spite of the fact that I couldn't follow his logic, I'd still stick to my a-priori assumption that Wierwille was telling the God's honest truth and I just needed to "work" it more so that - one magical day - I too would understand. Cheezus, how did he get me (us?) to that point to begin with? That was the real hook that got us all involved, and I still don't know what it was...

Their language and choice of Bible verses certainly have a Wayferish ring to them. So they wanna teach kids in Belize? I guess there's worse goals in the world. Makes me kinda wonder what else may be on the agenda though. I know "Bonefishing" would be pretty high on my list of things to teach, were I going...

All the major tenets of Wierwillianism were propounded very energetically, but seldom were given any detailed explanation. The cornerstone of TWI-faith "THE LAW OF BELIEVING" was stated in very simplistic terms, but HOW it actually worked was never given a moment of time. The basic idea of "believing equals receiving" was about all that was promoted. If we believed something it WAS going to come to pass. Period, end of story. Funny that we never delved into how that was suppposed to happen, but we didn't. Like so much of TWI crap, we simply accepted it at face value. We were stupid kids, what can I say?

Oh, and BTW, SHOGUN was HORRIBLE! (not just me, but all my Japanese friends think so as well) Imagine, if you will, what it would be like to see a movie entitled PRESIDENT and supposedly about the first president of the United States. Unfortunately, according to the movie, the president's name is George Jefferson. He's a gay architect from San Francisco, and he's terribly conflicted about whether he should free the slaves, or allow Benjamin Madison to buy Alaska from Poncho Villa. In the end he decides to let Sitting Bull implement Manifest Destiny. That's about how Japanese history is handled. I never read the book, so I don't know if Clavell did that bad of job of his research, or if the T.V. miniseries screenwriters completely trashed his work. Anyway, to get back on topic, "The Last Samurai": Cinematography, blood, guts, gore, and swordplay - **** four stars Storyline and substance. *1/2 one and a half.

I finally saw the movie two days ago on pay-per-view. It was O.K., I guess. A pretty typical Hollywood epic. But I was disappointed with how fast and loose they played with the facts. Why isn't the REAL story ever good enough? A few glaring errors - to those that know a little about Saigo Takamori (Katsumoto in the movie)- he and his men did NOT dress in traditional samurai armor (most of which was PARADE armor anyway, but why labor the point?). They were dressed in western-style military uniforms. There were NO American soldiers or advisors involved in ANY of the fighting. There had been German and French military in Japan, but no Americans. The fight was strictly between Japanese. Takamori and his men also had cannons and rifles, though not as modern as the Emperor's Army. And when they were finally defeated, they had run out of ammunition. And Takamori's reason to fight against the Emperor had nothing to do with rejecting the evil western influences, but a reluctance to see the old stratified class system (where samurais were conveniently located close to the top) be abolished, and lose their life of privilege and elite status. Takamori also was eager to invade Korea, which the Government forces - though not opposed to conquering it- felt was a little premature. Takamori and several of his men did commit seppuku on the battlefield rather than be killed by their enemies but there was no converted Samurai gaijin present to share the experience. Anyway, it was a good "spectacle" movie. But, I thought, rather lacking in substance, especially the silly bit about the widow of the samurai Algren killed supposedly falling in love with him. Yeah, that seemed real likely. I might have enjoyed it more, had I not known the real story.

Yeah, it might not be as exciting as the new phone books coming out, but it's still an awesome work.

Refiner, Yeah, there was "public" castigation (though, outside of "Corps training" it didn't happen real often). One incident in particular that I remember was at PFAL '77 the film crew wasn't paying enough attention to Herr Vierville for his liking so he stops his "teaching" midstream and takes off on a tirade against Joe C., the poor S.O.B. in charge of videotaping the event. I don't remember his exact words but it was something to the effect of "get your head out of your a$$, Joe!", but it went on for a GREAT deal of time. Funny thing was, that "reproof" session was left in the taping, so anyone viewing the class, years later, could still be a party to Joe's supposed misdeeds. Another time I remember LCM tearing into another "Way Productions" person. A (I'm told) nice lady who had just recently released a music album of Wayferish tunes. LoyBoy spent the better part of an hour playing sections of her album and screaming and yelling and decrying how "off the Wurd" her lyrics were, and how could she do such a thing, she must be under the influence of devil spirits, etc. Also, it was almost routine to have somebody or other "roasted" at lunchtime announcements. They would be singled out for their particular transgression and made to stand up while the leader (whoever it was, often it was LCM) would tear into them for some (often trivial - or nonexistant) breach of WayWorld protocol. This was always done under the pretext of "keeping people sharp", usually employing the "iron sharpeneth iron" verse of scripture. The net result of such practices was to make most everyone "gun shy" and making sure they were always CYAing. Yeah, WayWorld got to be a real barrel of fun after you got fully initiated...

From what I gathered when I sold off what little Way crap I had left (the bulk of it ending up in a landfill), memorabilia didn't really sell too well. It was supposed "research" materials that went for good dough. I know I had a couple of those paper-bound aramaic interlinears - they were only a few pages - and they sold for 30 or 40 dollars EACH! (can you say "maroon"? Sure, I knew you could) I've recently stumbled upon a couple of those leather bound RTHST books, in their original little red carboard boxes. I think I've got another one or two of them around as well, someplace. Are they worth anymore (on eBay) than the regular-bound ones? Seems like it's the content that drives the price more than anything else (isn't that a sad thought?).

hiar, No, I never heard about the cabin burning down. Maybe that happened after my departure. I do know that the family commons was set on fire (twice!) during it's construction. The sprinkler system didn't work for some reason or other. Naturally it was that pesky adversary trying to stop "the move of The Wurd" again. The place would have probably burned real good save my mentioning to one of the godly-inspired architects that the light fixtures we were putting in were labeled (quite clearly) "do not install near combustible materials". Seeing as how we were attaching them DIRECTLY to aspen planking in the ceiling I thought maybe somebody ought to say something before they were ALL installed (there were about half of them already in place). There was a big pow-wow with the high mucky-mucks of Way Builders, and the decision was made that maybe we shouldn't install the fixtures after all. And maybe we ought to check with the manufacturer as to whether their fixtures were appropriate for the installation. Gosh, those guys were so detail-oriented! So we ended up cutting out all the fixtures we had just installed and putting in fire-safe ones in their place. What with all the "tapped-in" spiritual folks around dealing with those issues, isn't it amazing that some worker-geek in the carpentry crew had to be the one who actually read the freaking label? I wonder how they'd have explained the place burning down had they not been made aware of the obvious? Oh, yeah, that damned ADVERSARY!

Whenever I see a list of names like this (and I still recognize a few), I wonder. What are these poor ba$tards gonna do when they wake up one morning and (finally) realize they've wasted their life promoting nonsense? That can't be pretty...

hiar, "Sikkens" was the product you're referring to, I think. It's a European wood finish/preservative. They slather it on the "Corps Chalet" by the barrel full, to little avail (Ohio is just too humid for those Colorado logs). Yeah, I think the basic construction of the tower sounds the same as when I was there last (winter of '88-'89). The ice damming always happened at the rear of the commons where the meeting hall met the main rotunda. I saw the damage it did once. Several hundred pounds of ice smashing down on the roof, deck and railing, turning it all into splinters. Not pretty (or safe!). Maybe they resolved the issue somehow. I know there was talk of heating elements to melt the ice, etc., but I don't think they had a final "cure" figured out by the time I left Hq. (March, '89). Never having gone to a single meeting there (oh, maybe one), Gunnison was always a place for me to screw around and have a good time. Hence I don't have any "baggage" connected to the place that some do. I have mostly great memories of it. Fishing, drinking, bar-be-queing (almost burning down cabin #4 - oops!), and great times with good people, and no Way-flavored religious crap to taint it. I know lots of others who didn't fare as well there, but for me, it was GOOD!

Refiner, Amazing the similarities between such seemingly diverse cults. You seem to have a pretty good grasp of what life was like in WayWorld, without ever having been there. Re:"I guess you all just weren’t holy enough to receive the reward. You weren’t able to keep your mind believing clearly enough, for long enough, to make it happen." The common refrain heard amongst Wayfers was "Where am I missing it?" Yes, the idiotic doctrine was never questioned. If things didn't happen the way they were outlined in "The Blue Book", well, where else could the problem lie? The nebulous "believing" of the individual was always the perpetrator. Yes, we've just got to "build our believing". We've just got to study "the Word" more. So we end up spending even MORE time perusing the pages of a rather obtuse manuscript (the Bible) instead of 1. getting an education 2. getting a better job 3. spending more time with one's spouse, parent, child, friend 4. or maybe just relaxing for an afternoon (GOD FORBID!). Such a waste of time it all was. A pathetic waste...