George Aar

I hate to be the wet blanket, but hey, somebody's got to do it. Like the person who won the Lotto twice in the same year, "miraculous" seems pretty dependant on one's perspective. Personally I've seen enough of the times where there wasn't any magical intervention by the unseen forces of holiness to sort of doubt the existence of any. But if there really is a God, rather than being some wonderful, all-loving entity, anxiously anticipating the next opportunity to perform the miraculous, I'd tend to think that He's one capricious mutha f$%^er, with a downright warped sense of humor as well. But then, I would...

P-mosh, Sono toirei wa totomo takai desu ne? (sorry, just taking the opportunity to keep in practice...)

OHMYGOD, Hope, Just when I think I've heard it all, a story like yours comes along. PLEASE tell me that the bonehead who voluntarily ....ed his pants has been properly committed to some remote and very secure institution. Damn! That's beyond bizarre and nigh unto Twilight Zone...

Am I being entirely too conspiratorial to think that the Vickster initiated the kissing ritual to limber up his potential motorcoach guests? The overall effect does seem to me to have been a lowering of inhibitions and a redirection towards the sensual. Be that as it may, I always found the habit awkward and embarassing. But then, I would...

"I thought of this when Shaz mentioned TWI's spiritualization of 'reproof.' That's how they made us listen - they moved it from the physical domain to the spiritual, where they claimed dominion." And not only did they then have "dominion" over us, but they also had conveniently moved the debate into an arena where nothing could be examined. Remember? Physical things can be examined, spiritual things can be "ascertained" - or some such crap. Anyway, the long and short of it was, once the matter was moved into the "spiritual" category, the debate was over. The MOG was right, and that was that. Who were we to question GOD?

I've drawn jury duty twice. Both times I sat on one case that lasted a day or so, then went and pleaded with somebody that I was the sole breadwinner and it was a burden on my family, yada, yada,... They let me go early both times. The experience is great, but starving kinda sucks, so I had to strike a balance...

But Raf, in order for money to be an incentive, I'd probably have to have some first. Yeah, like that's going to happen... :P-->

Tzaia, Thanks for the insights. It's not often you get to hear the inside story. I can't say as I'm much surprised though. Seems like religions have a tendancy towards all sorts of ills. One week it's cookies and coffee in the church basement, and a few weeks later it's off to the crusades, and a month or so after that, it's time for the inquisition. I guess that's why I enjoy the company of rank unbelievers anymore. They don't have anything that important to kill you over...

Gawddam, Oldies. I'm incredulous. Faaaawk no! I wouldn't go to a farking "fellowshiip". What the hell for? I made an incredibly naive and immature decision to allow a bogus outfit to micromanage my life for 15+ years. I finally snapped out of it. Now I should think, "Well, why not go back and try it again?" Duh, I think not...

Yes, I guess you would find that amazing, Oldies.

And if I might add, when determining the "goodness" of TWI, it can't be two ways. Either it was a B.S. organization or it wasn't. One's perception of it, or how any particular person made out in their ministry years doesn't determine that. It's the foundation, it's the raison d'etre, and how it routinely treated the majority of it's people that does. And in WayWorld's case, I think it's lacking on all counts. To make an analogy (that some will probably find offensive in itself) the Nazis were pretty popular in pre-war Germany. If Hitler had died prior to "Krystalnaucht", he would probably still be rated as at least one of Germany's greatest Chancellors ever. He brought new pride and industry to a devastated country. It must have been a wonderful movement then before it all went wrong, wasn't it? I think not. I think it was a warped and demented philosophy right from it's inception. No matter that the genocide hadn't been committed yet. It's foundation was horribly flawed. Likewise with Wierwille and his "ministry". It didn't become evil and get off track with Craig's ascension to the throne. It was whacked all along. It was designed as a cult of personality where Wierwille got his first and everybody else could wait in line (despite his numerous teachings to the contrary, that's how it worked out in real life). And so when you come along and claim that there was a lot of good that still came about by TWI, you nullify the experiences of those who got ....ed on. Your ox didn't get gored, so, by God, there musta been something worthwhile there. I don't buy it. The fact that you heard some teachings that made you feel good, or learned the books of the Bible or some supposed "principle" that you think helped you through life is wholely immaterial if others (I would maintain - a majority) were used and abused and discarded as a matter of course. Just look at how this accident occurred. There's not an organization I know of that would allow participants in it's curriculum to be subject to the needless danger and lack of trained personnel that seemed to be prevalent there. Yet the BOT isn't responsible for any of it? Unbelievable...

Oh gawd, we've even got different churches with regard to food at The Rock. Personally, I never cared for "W.O.W." burgers, but was terribly fond of "Colonel" Grumalot's fried chicken...

HCW, "Positive words about twi principles are met with a sunami wave of contempt" And well they should, IMHO. The entire organization was a twisted, manipulative, hurtful POS. Talk about the wonderful "good" that it did, to me, is as disingenuous as discussing the good done by "Heaven's Gate", or the "Peoples' Temple", or - if you want to get a little more extreme - the "Third Reich". Anyone around today who was connected with those organizations probably isn't going to spend a lot of time telling about the virtues of same. (oh, it's "tsunami", BTW) "TWI, never was, is not now, nor will ever be good in any way shape or form." Yeah, that's pretty close, I'd say.

I'm not much of a sports fan, but I did haveta tune in for a few minutes of the game (I saw most of the second half). I thought the game was O.K. Not entirely a yawner, but not a whole lot of "Wow! Didju see that!" moments either. My big question is, though, what the hey were the Eagles thinking in the last few minutes of the game? Damn, they needed to answer for 10 points and they were just draggin' a$$ around the field. No "hurry-up" offence, no running out of bounds to stop the clock, just sorta non-chalant. I know the announcers were saying the same thing, but, gawd, it was evident long before they brought it up. Is that the way the Eagles normally play? Oh, and, yeah, except for the "butchered cat", the commercials were yawners too. Why is everybody playing so safe all of a sudden?

OM, Re:"But I am curious, aren't you?" WHAT?(!) Gawd, I think therein is the defining difference between you and a whole lot of the rest of us here. No, I'm not even vaguely curious as to how WayWorld is operating today. I wouldn't darken their doorway if you put a gun to my head. What for?

HCM, O.K., I've tried to stay uninvolved on this thread since I played the smarta$$ with you, but this statement just rubs me all kinda wrong: "You simply cannot connect the crash to VPW/LCM or anything that was wrong w/TWI." What?(!) How about if they had simply provided a proper vehicle for transporting the participants in their farking program? A simple schoolbus, or possibly a four-wheel-drive bus, would have been all that was necessary. Instead they chose to have the participants transported like bales of hay. I think that alone says more about what they really thought of their people than any tripe they served up at SNS or a lunchtime "sharing".

Gawd, that is a stirring endorsement. Can you imagine advertizing like that? "Drink Blertz Beer, it doesn't taste nearly as bad as it used too." "Buy a WonderWeasel Truck. They aren't nearly as undependable as they used to be!" or possibly: "Eat at the Greasespot Cafe. Now with far fewer cases of botulism!" Anybody left at WayWorld, at this late date, has got to have some serious freaking issues...

"Put a little extra oxygen in some holy water, stir until you can see the face of Jesus and you have the answer to long life and health." No, no, no. Everybody knows you can only see the face of Jesus in a tortilla, well, sometimes in a grilled chees sandwich, but you really have to be believing. O.K., after that, I think I'll be leaving...

"He drove 75 mph in Manhattan in a big truck in the snow and ignored all traffic safety indicators" Gosh, sounds like somebody else I know (except he didn't drive that slow)... :D-->

Well, I'm kinda envious of Josie. A life well-lived for ninety years! I somehow doubt that I'll get anywhere near that mark. At any rate, I don't envy you your job, Plots. You ever read any "Death Haiku"? There was a tradition of sorts in Japan, indulged in primarily by the Samurai class, of composing an Haiku to be read at their funeral, I guess. Of such like: Kaisho (the author) Futokoro e Suzuki shimasu ya Yuzakura "Evening Cherry Blossoms I slip the inkstone back into my kimono This one last time." Minteisengan Ka no aru o Omoide ni dange Koboreume "Fall, plum petals Fall... and leave behind the memory Of their scent." Or, for the more pragmatic: Toko Ji sei to wa Sunawachi mayoi Tada shinan "Death poems are mere delusion Death is death." Probably not the most comforting of the three. Maybe you'd want to leave that one out...

If I remember the quote correctly (I can't believe this trivial crap stays stuck in my brain) Mr. Wierwille said something like: "I know that there's F.B.I. agents in the crowd here. Why do you act so surprised? I work for the Man upstairs!" Yeah, sure you did, Vick...

O.K., everybody probably knows this, but I'll give it a try: Humphrey Bogart's infamous lisp and funny way of twitching his mouth was due to a WWI injury. I guess he took a bullet through his upper lip. Oops, I had it almost right. I guess it was actually a shrapnel wound from when the ship he was aboard (The "Leviathan") got shelled...

"The script for Rocky was written in three days" Wow! What took so long?

I obviously don't take a lot of effort to conceal my identity, but if it was me that sent the letter, I'd be on the phone to Pitney-Bowes to let them know about a potential comprimising of their security codes. I'd bet they'd be pretty anxious to know about the incident.

Fine, but leave out the parts that start "It was a dark and stormy night!" or "There I was, flat on my back!", O.K.?