George Aar

Broken1, I gotta take issue with this statement: "I'd ask for a REFUND but I prefer to remember that giving to God is my responsibility, how people choose that money be spent is between them and GOD." I know that this has been the company line at WayWorld for decades - probably since the Vickster started selling "The Class" - but it is nonsense. Anytime we give money to anyone or anything we are giving power and resources. We have a moral obligation to make sure that that power is not misused. And if we feel it IS being misused, to then cut off our support. Unfortunately Almighty God never has gotten around to getting Himself a P.O. Box, so the proper address to send our offerings has always been a little vague. Anyone claiming to collect funds for His work then, of necessity, should be subject to VERY close scrutiny. Lots of folks have claimed divine sanction over the years, and lots of us have given them the wherewithall to commit all manner of acts, from the sublime to the unspeakable. Your local church, Billy Graham, David Koresh, Garner "Ted" Armstrong, Charles Manson, Hitler, or pick a charasamatic leader of your choice, all have had their hand out shamelessly asking - or demanding - our support. We damned well ought to know who we're giving to and what they're going to do with those resources...

"Thanks for expressing your intelligent views. Now I can make a more mature, sound decision concerning PFAL." There ya go...

Pulled pork? Can we say that in polite company?

I think what might cause a lot of us to look at the fans of PFAL with a jaundiced eye is that, after leaving the cult atmosphere and maybe gaining a little bit of maturity, in retrospect we find the teaching so farking LAME. Lord have mercy, "THE LAW OF BELIEVING"? What a crock. It has far more to do with 1950's pop-psychology than anything biblical. Likewise with the "LAW" of "giving and receiving". Not much biblical there either, just a cool way to fleece the unsuspecting flock. Or all the lesser (and mistaken) things like "thoroughly" vs. "throughly" (UTTER nonsense), the "four crucified with Christ", "the cry of triumph" and so on. It made for a lot of "gee whiz" moments to the uninitiated, but the end result of which was - not much. So do I think less of folks who STILL hang onto the odd, eclectic mix of Bible trivia and religious pablum that was PFAL? Yeah, you bet I do. It's our seventh year into the new millenium, grow up fer gawdsake...

I don't know squat about the Seahawks (nor do I much care), but it always peeved me that they wouldn't name the cheerleaders "The Seahags", I thought it woulda been kinda cute. Instead they went with the tepid "Seagals". Dopey. Secretly I hope they lose to the Bears. I get so tired of the hype - and having to turn down the volume whenever some ad comes on about the "Hawks". Yeah, I'm boring. So sue me...

Well, hush my mouth wide open! I guess I've always combined the two speeches. I didn't even realize they were seperate events. Thanks for straightening me out!

Being a wise guy again, sorry...

I've always loved the pickled octopus appetizer that they serve at a local Greek restaurant. I've also heard that the Greeks do a great job of bar-be-queing same. Anybody know how to cook it? The lady that ran the local Greek restaurant in my town said she wouldn't fix it for me - it was too much work. I can't imagine how. But then, whaddu I know?

I dunno, I've always thought of meatloaf (and assorted other culinary delights like "hamburger helper", "rice-a-roni", and anything made in an electric saucepan with noodles of some sort) as "white-trash chow". Is it really worth preserving this stuff with a recipe?

Jonny, Re:"And for me to donate is to leave open a crack in my resolve." Well, for your sakes, I hope that reality never intrudes on your rather active fantasy life. I can only imagine how ugly it would be if it ever does. Fortunately for my sister-in-law and a few million others in the world, not everybody shares your incredibly selfish and myopic mindset. They've had their real-world lives extended by - and the quality of same immeasurably improved - by total strangers who had a little bit of care and concern for their fellow man...

Well, not faulting your sentiments or anything, But.... that speech was originally given in 1963, some five years before he was assassinated...

Oh Lordy! PL, IMNSHO all of the offshoots are run by guys who apparently can't get(or don't want) a REAL job. They're so used to to having somebody else pull their weight that to transition to a "real" life would have been more than they care to bear. Soooo, they've either deluded themselves into thinking that they have some sort of special ministry, OR, they're cynically keeping themselves in a job where the demands are few and there's no heavy lifting. Either way, they're a group I wouldn't care to spend any time with. Why they still have some popularity defies all logic in my mind. If you're still of the mindset that there's some sort of loving entity watching over us all (and apparently not really doing much else) I'd say, go to a nearby church where the demands on your time and resources are few, but you can still get the religious "high" that the spiritually-minded seem to seek.

Yeah, I've had the "donor" thingy checked on my driver's license for years now, but, as a few have already stated, I'm not sure just what they'll even want at this point. I've heard that after age 50 or so, they don't harvest any of the large organs as it just isn't worth the bother. Who's going to want to go through all the risk and expense of a transplant to get an organ that's pretty well beat up already? I guess tissues and corneas and stuff like that hold up a little better, and they're welcome to 'em, once I'm done with them. For that matter they could use me for an anchor, doorstop, or dartboard, whaddu I care?

Never eat anything bigger than your head. Make sure your cigarettes are organic. Save string...

I'm not quite sure I follow your reasoning WW. I've always heard the whole text, whenever I've heard it quoted. And, even at that, I'm not all that sure that using the first line or two would necessarily be taking it out of context. But, whaddu I know? Oh, and re: sports and the money and accolades thrown at it, et al. I found out the other day what the highest paid government job is in the State of Washington. Governor maybe? Nope. Attorney General? Some cabinet secretary maybe? The mayor of Seatte? No, not even close. The highest paid government position in the state ( by quite a margin, I understand) is the head coaching job for the U of W Huskies Football Team. Yeah, that makes sense...

I was perusing the "Skeptic's Dictionary" site and found this little blurb, I found it refreshing, YMMV: http://skepdic.com/refuge/funk54.html Of particular note was this line: "Born into a religion and being fed irrationality gradually, in small doses, leads billions of normal people to take for granted baskets full of absurd notions. They can attest to the Trinity and transubstantiation as easily as to the rising of the sun. But cram the inanities of other religions into a few weeks of lessons and even a child will see that one's own religion isn't any different."

I have zero expertise in the field, but I did read some interesting stuff a few years back that sorta relates. One was a translation of a French physician's journal about the infamous "L'Enfant Sauvage" in the late 18th-early 19th century. The other was a short artilce about a girl, "Genie", who was kept confined to her room for the bulk of her childhood and never given any exposure to real life. I think "Frontline" did a program about the girl as well. There's a good bit of information about "feral" children that gives some insight into how the brain works (or doesn't) in relationship to environment. Maybe that would be helpful? I dunno, I just found it interesting - as well as heartbreaking...

Yeah, gosh, SGAL, I've just been going crazy with such intricate arguments being put forth First cman, maybe you could explain how you know that there IS a God, a devil, spirit, or any compelling reason to search for one?

Yeah, you had me till the NASCAR thing too. "Wow! LOOK! He's making a left turn! And he is too! And so is he!" I don't get it...

I love this stuff, hearing what women claim they're looking for in a guy. Uh huh. "I want a guy who likes long romantic stolls on the beach at midnight, pillow fights, and snuggling up by the fire and eating 'Frangos'. Oh, and he has to have clean fingernails too!" In reality, the guy she really goes for doesn't necessarily meet any of those criteria, if my experience is normative. I tend to be a little more pragmatic these days in my expectations, like "Does she weigh less than my truck?" and (equally important) "Does she have a pulse?"...

Cman and Oldies, Uh, the way a discourse like this is 'sposed to go, as best I know, is that, somebody makes a point, then maybe I counter with different point. Then, if you want to play, you make your point. That's how I thought it was supposed to work, anyway. Maybe I've been horribly mistaken...

Cman, I don't think you're on the same page as some of the rest of us. Re:"If one comes to the point of casting religion aside, I believe this to be a good start in actually evaluating one's beliefs. Assuming that this person still seeks this God." And just why is it you assume that seeking God would be a "good" thing? How about just taking what ones got and trying to make sense of it, without any preconceived notions?

Did someone mention my name? Yeah, I thought about that stuff. I can't say as it was real tough to come to the point where I just didn't buy the whole pie-in-the-sky theology anymore though. I mean, if you step back from it all and just take a dispassionate look at what's being preached, well, it's just silly. And utimately (and ironically) selfish and self centered. "Oh please God, make sure that I live forever!" (after all, I deserve it right? I mean, I've been good, I've gone to church, I've prayed, I've given you money, now you do your part right?) Yeah, I know, THAT"S not MY religion! Regardless, the whole Bible scenario just stuck me more and more as simply superstition run amok. And you don't have to DO anything different, just BELIEVE and God will take care of you. And all those poor bastards who don't believe? F'em! What good are they to God anyway? That's how I perceive it, anyway. Childish, illogical, unverifiable, and ultimately it's all about what WE can get out of it. We get to live forever! Not the dogs or cats, or the mushrooms, or rotifers, but us HUMANS. Why humans? Cause we're so perfect? Of course not! We're TERRIBLE! Just AWFUL! But God loves us so much that He'll save us, IF we just jump through the right hoops! Jump through the wrong hoops (even though you THINK they're the right hoops?) NO SOUP FOR YOU! Yeah, I've skewed what "real" religion is all about I'm sure. But - so be it. I can't go around living a lie, just to be sure that I'll get my slice of pie, sorry...

cman, Re:"God loves a good riddle and a good riddle solved that leads to another." I would submit that this is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. Spinmeistering to get God off the hook. What does that tell anyone? "God's beyond figuring out?" "There's no rhyme or reason to any of it?""It's all some ethereal guessing game?" Or maybe, "Yeah, it doesn't make any sense, but it's fun to try to connect the loose ends into a tapestry of our own making!" And I guess you're not even aware of doing it?

Last I knew they were living in Shreveport, LA. and doing just fine. That's been a few years, but they seemed like they were pretty settled in there...