George Aar

I've just dropped in for the first time in years, but I thought I'd add this. Has anyone seen "Religulous"? A sometimes interesting, often annoying critique of religion in general by Bill Maher, great humanitarian and smartass of our time. Anyway, there are a few minutes of video in that movie of people outside of WayWorld speaking in tongues, and it's creepy. REALLY creepy. But, as with The Way, the folks seem VERY pleased with themselves to be bringing forth this miraculous stuff into the world. It's PROOF by golly. As far as interpreting or prophesying, I'd say that I pretty much faked it. I was trying my best to do as I was told, but it never seemed like anything but just making things up extemporaneously. And I noticed over the years that the brighter, more eloquent people usually had the more eloquent interpretations as well. And those not as bright were - surprise - rather dull and dopey in whatever they "brought forth" as well. The tongues SEEMED real, though. I mean, there was something going on there, obviously. But WHAT was going on, I'm pretty sure, was nothing more than a parlor trick. Like firewalking or voodoo or tarot cards, people can be convinced that easily explainable phenomenon are the work of God or the devil, if the one doing the explaining is himself deluded or has a vested interest in continuing the delusion.

Abigail, I believe Almighty Reason is reaching out to you. Rather than making excuses for the abject failure of so many scriptural guarantees, unanswered prayers, and an apparent blatant ambivalence on the part of the other Almighty to most all of humanity's plights, maybe it's time to own up to the obvious? I think false comfort is swell, but eventually it's efficaciousness wears a little thin...

Hell, the roofs were in bad shape 30 years ago. If they haven't had a lot of significant restoration work since then, they must be awful now. I never lived there, so I don't have the affection for the place that maybe some former residents have, but I don't find much of anything worthwhile enough about the structures to warrent their saving. To me they're just old, outdated, and rundown buildings. And unless they can find a buyer who has specific needs that the place is well suited to, I think the buildings WILL come down.

http://www.gci.org/history/disappointment

Well of course then there's the other lie of religion in general - "We know something REALLY important that you don't know!"

I've always thought it was kinda funny, that if you divided the number of years Methusula, Noah, and the rest of the Genesis boys by 12, they length they lived and what they did at a given age makes sense. Could they've been talking about "months" rather than "years". Dunno. I know to Bible literalists that the mere suggestion is unthinkable, but it makes sense to me. But then, I don't hold the Bible to any higher standard than any other writ of it's day... As fer living a 100 years or more now, well, if you've got something to do - and are able to still do it, I guess that's fine. But spending 20 or 30 years couped up in a home, or laying in bed, or tethered to a phalanx of machinery doesn't appeal to me in the least. I'd just as soon check out while I'm still somewhat capable...

And this gets my nomination for "quote of the day", or possibly "understatement of the day" as well... :)

It's been a good run (uh, from my perspective anyway). There were many times when I wondered why you bothered anymore, but I'm glad you did. Thanks for all your efforts, really. Now I've gotta figure out where else I can spread strife and discord, hmmm...

I wonder where their "possibility thinking" is going to lead them now? The whole schtick of theirs always struck me as being REALLY incongruous. The over-the-top Crystal Catherdral and all the excess and the opulence dripping from everything just seemed completely disconnected from any sense of Christian charity and humility. But whuddu I know? I'm a born-again agnostic...

OMG! I had no idea this guy was still around. I had his book "Be Here Now" back in the early '70s and it gave me great spiritual enlightenment for ... oh, the whole afternoon anyway. I don't really remember much about it now, but I know it was popular grist for the counter-culture-society mill at the time. In conclusion, FAROUT man!

I was always ashamed of my WayWorld association. I kept on with it because I actually believed the B.S. that they had some special handle on the one and only TRUTH. So I felt a moral obligation to support the lameazzed outfit, I guess. But I never volunteered what I did with my time on weekends or those two weeks in August to anyone outside of the TWI community. And when the real truth about what a disgusting little cult TWI was finally came out, I was even more ashamed to have gone along with such a bunch of farking loons and against my own intuition. So, yeah, there's shame of allowing oneself to be made of fool of, and then anger at wasting all those years and money on something so goddam stupid. All in all, a real "win-win" huh?

I'm long enough out of WayWorld that the idea of "forgiveness" never even enters my mind anymore. Do I hold a grudge against the organization? I don't think so. Have I forgiven them? I don't think so there, either. It would be like holding a grudge against the dog that bit you, or the tree branch that fell on you, or maybe the rock that you stubbed your toe on. None of those things do you any good, but the idea of "forgiving" or holding a grudge against them just doesn't seem relevant. They're a group of conartists - or the victims of same - that you happened to run into. Hopefully you've recovered most of what they scammed out of you, but you'll never get "even" with 'em. Like all the money wasted on lottery tickets, the only way to really benefit from it now, is to vow to never do that again. Angst about who's to blame, or how badly you were hurt makes pretty thin soup...

In the real world (the one that doesn't go away once you quit believing in it) I think the most likely thing to happen with WayWorld HQ is for it to be sold to some corporation for it's headquarters. The graves and ash-spreading areas will likely have to be dealt with (relocated?) somehow, and I have no clue what the hell one could do with the auditorium besides a salvage/demolition treatment. Maybe a radical remodel could turn it into something useful, but it seems like it would be easier to delete the whole mess and start over (or just turn it back into cornfield). Once the current corporate heads die off, I'm betting something like that will happen. I mean, who the hell would wanna take over the piddling, twisted remains NOW?

Gosh, I read Wierwille-the-Younger's uplifting and (condescending?) positive message to us all. I haven't been so moved since I last sat through an Amway meeting...

But the most closely related story to that of the Biblical "Noah" (one that I would contend the Bible myth was derived from) "The Epic of Gilgamesh", names the hero "Ut-Napistem" (or something like that). I think the similar sounding names from the disparate cultures is simply a matter of cherry-picking on the part of the "researchers". Those with a doctrinal axe to grind are going to find evidence, even if none exists (the Kennedy Assassination is a textbook example of this phenomenon). You've got to wonder just how wonderful and loving a god can be that decides to mercilessly exterminate all the living things on earth, don't you? Yeah, I know, it was the only way. And if evidence for this dramatic event is what the faithful need in order to stay faithful, what about geological evidence? From what I understand there is ZERO evidence in the geologic record of a worldwide, cataclysmic flood of the magnitude described in The Bible. Let alone all the logistical problems (which are overwhelming in the utter, whacked-out extreme end of the scale). The fact that a wooden boat has not, and likely could not, be built in that size, the fact that with only eight people on board and MILLIONS of species to attend to, there's no farking way the animals would ever get fed (or their excrement cleaned up) on anything approaching a survivable timetable - even if the humans did NOTHING else (including sleep). And then the minor stuff like how do you keep the tigers from eating the springbucks, how do you get enough bamboo for Panda food, or how could they possibly secure enough clean water to keep everyone and everything clean and hydrated? And then how did all the fish and flora of the ocean survive the unbelievable change in salinity and pressure? How could the populations of any species survive with such a tiny reservoir of DNA? How could anything survive once leaving the ark, given that the earth has basically been sterilized and NO plants or animals (save what was on the ark) are out there to be eaten? And I've only touched on the insurmountable problems that such a feat would produce. Unless you invoke some sort of miraculous, divine intervention at every turn (at which point one would have to ask, what's the point of getting Noah and the gang involved at all?), it's utterly impossible to make the flood story work. And I haven't even mentioned the atmospheric pressure issues and a gazillion other things that simply would not have allowed such a thing to transpire. Of course, with God, all things are possible. If one really wants to believe The Bible (and for the life of me, I don't know why anyone would), wouldn't it be a lot simpler to just religate obvious fables such as this to the category of "Parable" or somesuch? I think that's what quite a few of the Jewish sects do. It seems like it would make Buhleeving a whole lot easier, without spending so much time plugging one's ears and going "la,la,la" when inconvenient facts or laws of physics are mentioned...

And I know it's quite chic amongst the religiously disposed to denigrate man's abilities, but when was the last time a holyman or holy thunderer made a photo like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot (made at the request of that evil, "senses man" - Carl Sagan. When we're not quibbling about some arcane syntax in some ancient "holy" writ - or fighting a war over same - I think mankind can - and DOES - do some amazing stuff, given half a chance...

I would contend, that's the only wisdom we've got - or ever had...

How do I see them? No earthshattering epiphanies here I'm afraid. Just the normal agnostic sorta stance. I see The Bible as simply a collection of a lot of mythology and superstitions that have been around since religions began, which I'm sure goes back to well before we even figured out how to live in caves. Imagine how a primitive, ignorant, possibly even non-verbal people would react and try to survive in a very inhospitable environment. Wouldn't they naturally gravitate towards appeasing the elements around them so they would be shown favor by the forces that be? So soon they're doing whatever they can to make the gods that they imagine are controlling their fate, happy with them. But how could they do that? Well, by buying them off of course. So they start making sacrifices of precious things to the gods, so that in return the gods will look kindly on them and allow them to live and eat, find food and shelter and clothing, and have abundant children, crops, and livestock. Eventually the crops, livestock, and even the children are sacrificed so the angry gods won't be so angry with them. And eventually a codified system of sacrifices and behaviors are drawn up, so that the people can be sure they're doing everything they can to keep on the right side of the gods. And so we get - eventually - a Bible. Lots of myths, folklore, superstitions by the boatload, and even a little hardearned wisdom interspersed with all the blather. And the basic mindset is still that humanity is all f-ed up and needs a saviour. We start out from a guilty position and our only hope is that the gods will look kindly on us if we give up something in exchange for good things in this life AND especially in the one to come. So we give up our time, things we enjoy, our assets, and try to make all of what we experience on earth to be evil or at least inferior to what the gods have in store for us in the great beyond. And we adopt really primitive, likely even prehistoric, rituals. So cannibalism and offerings and chanting are our gifts to those unseen forces to make sure life comes out right. And if the rituals were finally proven to be just a tad TOO primitive and uncivilized, well we compromise. We no longer feel comfortable offering up our own bodies - or our children's - for sacrifice to the gods. So we figure out a way that God Himself does it for us. HE offers up the PERFECT sacrifice. Isn't that just special? But you've got to ask yourself (don't you?). What the hell kinda god would want to set things up in such a way that actual human sacrifice would be what is needed to make sure that mankind can survive? Just a tad bloodthirsty, no? (I know, God had no choice in the matter, He HAD to do it that way if He was a just God, right? [long sigh]) So yeah, I've got serious issues with the very basis of Christianity. I think it's ultimately a really violent, bloodthirsty, guilt-obsessed philosophy. It plays on one's sense of guilt and fear to make people act in the holy, prescribed manner. Denial of self, trivializing of familial and fraternal relationships, obeisance to a nebulous, vague, ill-defined power that's impossible to ever comprehend, and acceptance of barbaric, primitive rituals as some sort of holy rite. Yeah, I'm not much impressed with any of it anymore. And the topper is the trumping of knowledge and the scientific method with vague scriptural admonitions and "revelations" of "holymen". The results of such religious adherence is evident in the headlines most any morning...

Ha! Well, there IS a bit of an overlap there, I'm afraid...

Oooo, I never heard the Byrd version till I Googled it. Nice, but I gotta go with the sax version over the horn. Also, Byrd's intro has to be one of the longest in history, no?

This particular tune is normally blocked by copyright laws, but here's a "daily special" from a jazz site. Mr. Newman left us early last year, but his music lives on. This is as good as it gets if you ask me:

I think because we've grown up with it and it's familiar to us, we don't often really look at just what the tenets of Christianity are all about. If one takes a step back and takes a fresh look at just what the basis for Christian belief is, it's rather startling - at least it was for me. I mean, self-denial, human sacrifice, rejection of family and friends, and ritualized cannibalism?(!) It's hardly the warm-and-fuzzy, "Kum-by-ya", "let's all just love everybody" sorta philosophy that it's pitched as. Rather, it seems a lot more primitive, judgemental, and guilt-based than the common sales-pitch. Almost like it was cobbled together by a primitive, ignorant, anal-retentive group of Iron-age control-freaks. Ya think?

I guess the magic number is .08. That's the cost per kilowatt hour that electricity has to reach before solar becomes really feasible. Until then, we're all just bumpin' our gums. Currently in my 'hood, the cost is about 5 cents/KWH, so there's still good bit of time before it will make sense to cover your roof with solar panels and start selling the juice back to the power company. I'm waiting...

Name calling? I don't think so...

I'm a rank unbeliever, so I guess I have no "skin" in this game, but doesn't it seem like the God that you've concocted (and to be fair, I did the same thing in my buhleever daze) comes across as some sort of nitpicky, anal-retentive, fault-finding dweeb? I mean, give us a book that is open to widely divergent interpretations, offer no real definitive source outside of that book, and then get all ....y if we don't get the meaning JUST right? Somehow, I'd have thought the creator of the universe to maybe be a slighty bit more magnanimous than all that. But, whuddu I know?