another spot

Chapter Six Sir Squirrel scurried down the hallway. Where to go? The ravenous, salivating wolves must surely be close behind. He spied a left turn and hurried down it. The hallway was dark, close, and ominous. The most logical place to stash the nuts was the food pantry. But where was it? Suddenly he smelled liver, a profoundly disgusting odor. With onions. It smelled like armpits flavored with sea salt. As he moved toward it, he bumped into a man. “Who are you?” he asked. The man answered, “I am Bond. James Bond. Agent 007.” Sir Squirrel was delighted and relieved. “What special weapons do you have?” James answered, “A feather duster and a jawbone of an arse equipped with sensors and special detonators. It has razor sharp edges and emblazed with "666." Also I have green cards capable of cutting through anything, including red drapes.” We need to hurry this mission as I have an appointment with SDFODAT, deep in the desert. Stealthily they moved toward the horrid smell.

Yep, Kathy, all kinds of mental hoops to jump through. All kinds of things to get your life in order, believe for whatever, and then lcm starts the thing that once you’ve done all that you have to worry about the adversary stealing it. Then more formulas…jeez. God must have been laughing his arse off… “That’s more complicated than creation!!” Took my son and his fiancée to the airport today. They are such a sweet couple. They each put the other first, and they are so compatible. I am glad my son has someone who loves him like that. Eyes: I’m glad you liked the proving thing. VP messed up the Abraham situation offering his son. God really did that to prove Abraham. To be honest with you, for the first time since I left twi I feel a real peace about it. I really do believe God was proving me to see if I would choose Him or an idol. Guess what? I chose Him. This thread brought me to that point. It really is liberating to serve God just to do it with no complicated agenda. Even greater: putting God in His proper position in my mind. He is the LORD GOD. That’s simple. After that, most things fall into place easily.

Chapter Five While the SDFODAT contemplated her reign of sand and eventual influence over the universe, Sir Squirrel and the Bird Corps. landed on the Cubicle Ship. They were greeted by the Borg Queen (Madame Rivenfart) and the ravenous, salivating wolves. Hesitantly, Sir Squirrel dismounted his camel. The wolves surrounded him. “You are SHORT” one snarled. Sir Squirrel responded, “Whether the tree fall to the north or to the south, where it falls is where it lays.” Another wolf growled out, “Your sword is RUSTY.” And Sir Squirrel barred his teeth and said, “Way up in the sky, the big birdies fly, while down in the nest, the little birds rest.” He stooped down to draw in the dust. Rising, he reached into his pocket and withdrew five smooth nuts. He also withdrew a slingshot. Aiming carefully, he shot Madame Rivenfart in the forehead. Her eyes narrowed, and then she collapsed. Sir Squirrel seized the opportunity and ran in search of the stash of nuts, deep in the abyss of the Cubicle Ship.

Chapter Three Gliding through the night, Sir Squirrel reflected on his mission and kept his legs out of the reach of camel bites. He was pensive, but confident. His rusty sword was ready. The Bird Corps. talked quietly among themselves, and recited “never give up, never give in.” They were prepared and ready. Soon the Cubicle Ship loomed in front of them, dazzling and square. A tiny Cubicle ship left the mother ship, approaching the entourage and signaled permission to join them. Sir Squirrel gave permission after a slight hesitation. As the LC approached, his smell was vile. His metal was dull and his eyes were glazed over, and he spit often. He held out a handful of cashews to Sir Squirrel. “You may have these and more if you will follow me to the mother ship.” Sir Squirrel considered. “Is this a trick? Even if it is, I need inside to find their stash of nuts.” Sir Squirrel agreed to follow the LC to the Cubicle Ship. The Bird Corps. lined up in a straight line behind him and they flew toward the ship, camels mostly cooperating, but not entirely.

Chapter 2: The Borg Queen was restless and dissatisfied. The urge to assimilate was strong. She’d heard Sir Squirrel was on his way, and that although small in stature, he was a mighty knight. She shifted her body parts, but was unable to prevent a clanging sound. After much pondering on her strange metallic doctrines, she came to a decision. It was time to implement M & A. She commanded her Licentious Chief (known as the LC) to gather together a few nuts to offer as a bribe to Sir Squirrel. Her plan was to entice him on board the ship, and surround him with salivating wolves hurling insults and accusations. She would then banish him from the sky. Her cubical would be safe. Or so she thought.

The Further Adventures of the Squirrel Patrol, The Diligent and Dutiful Order of Sand Dusters, and The Way of Feathers and Nuts. The animals ceased fighting in recognition of a new threat: Assimilation by the Borg. A meeting was called. T-bone flapped his wings and called the meeting to order. “We know they have said resistance is futile. However, now that Sir Squirrel is sober, we have a fighting chance. I suggest we send him on a flying mission to discover where exactly their stash of nuts is located. Also, we need to know how many they have.” After much discussion, they ceased saying, “don’t go to Jerusalem” and voted to send the Bird Corps. with Sir Squirrel (who was not allowed to vote, but recognized his own ability to intimidate). Knowing the purpose of the Borg is to improve the quality of life for all species with mysterious doctrines of metallic nature, he was glad to go. This ruffled some feathers. As Sir Squirrel and the Bird Corps. mounted their flying camels, the rest of the animals bid them farewell with tears in their eyes at the sheer spectacle and bravery of it all. The time had come. The camels began to run, creating great swirling clouds of sand. Finally they lifted off into the sky, and as they slowly disappeared, two feathers floated serenely to the ground, which were quickly swept up by the Sand Dusters. Then quietness fell on the desert. Meanwhile, the SDFODAT continued to teach the secrets of the desert with regard to how to deal the adversary. She unveiled the formula: turn in a circle three times, stick your fingers in your ears, and repeat fifty times “never give up, never give in.”

That’s pretty nice, Roy.

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. The context is of course idolatry. The opposite of idolatry is glorifying God. We do this by loving God and following His ways. God Himself has glory. Exd 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Exd 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, [there is] a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: Exd 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: Exd 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. Jesus’ purpose was to glorify God. He did this as he demonstrated God’s ways and carried out God’s will. Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. God provided salvation because He loved, but ultimately for His glorification (to demonstrate His glory). 2Cr 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation [be] glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 2Cr 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 2Cr 3:11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious. Loving/receiving each other glorifies God. Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God. When we walk in His ways recognizing that God is the sovereign Lord God, the result is that God is glorified. It demonstrates our love. It makes it possible to do things that are difficult, such as not recompensing evil for evil. It is serving God to serve God, not ourselves. That is where the freedom is. It is letting go of self and truly trusting God. The result of service that is really self service results in a self bondage. I think this is a real necessary part of understanding what love is.

Quite right, Danny. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good stuff!!! It is interesting so many exwayfers turn to love God love your neighbor shortly after leaving twi…almost instinctively. The one thing we should have been doing, we weren’t. We just thought we were. 2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations (logismos), and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge (gnosis) of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; Logismos is reasoning. Thayer’s gives: 2) a reasoning: such as is hostile to the Christian faith. Seems to me this is what we are doing… A theology that involves ignoring sin avoids making God’s ways our ways. It ignores that God’s ways are righteous. It ignores His sovereignty. This is the ultimate result of twi theology, an idol of knowledge that ignores both God and His ways. Deu 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, Deu 10:13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good? Deu 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens [is] the LORD'S thy God, the earth [also], with all that therein [is]. I understand this is written to Israel, but the truth of it remains. Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Whether twi doctrine agrees with this or not, the fact remains that God does prove us by way of our choices. Perhaps this is the real meaning of our twi experience.

“To reduce the Christian experience to acquiring a bunch of Bible knowledge really puts a damper on God's influence. It would be like having a photograph of God and limiting our experience of Him to only that picture. The experience is all one-sided. The picture will not respond to us, it will not answer a question or a prayer. There's no commerce between hearts, no exchange of emotions. Not much of a relationship and no interactive process is possible. My Christianity is stale and limited to only my input…How different it is as we draw near to God, as we respond to Him and He to us.”—T-bone. Exquisite.

You guys…you’re going to have me sobbing in a minute…in fact you did bring tears to my eyes. You make my heart smile. The situation where one parent uses the child to punish the other spouse is called Parental Alienation Syndrome. It is emotionally abusive to the child most of all. There is really only one way to stop it. Disengage. Whatever it takes. Don’t play victim. Don’t play. Then set a different example. ________________________________________________________________________ “I remember times (during the mid 70's) where I wished I knew less and loved more. It seemed the more I knew the less I loved people and for me that was one of the reasons why I chose to go out WOW. It was my prayer (and goal) that God would show me want I needed to love people more than I thought I was and should be. The "head-knowledge" just seemed to be getting in the way.”—Larry This is really intriguing to me. I thought yesterday about the fact that love in twi was a formula, i.e. “the love of (or for) God in the renewed mind in manifestation.” The basic idea (if memory serves) was if you poked enough verses in your brain, you’d crank out love. It was a mental exercise. It was mechanical. The renewed mind process itself was mechanical. Believing was mechanical. Clear and concerned, blah, blah, blah. DWA was mechanical. This I think is the reason twi knowledge was “head knowledge.” Since all the basics were dealt with as a mental exercise, any one could do it (no matter what their hearts were like) and think they were “doing the Word.” I went over the agape verses awhile back and basically got obedience from it. My gut feeling is I think I missed the point…I keep thinking about heart response. I remember agape was not supposed to be emotional. Why not? 1Sa 18:1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2Sa 1:26 I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women. This was after Jonathan had died. This love must have been very powerful. I even remember something about God not having emotions because He is spirit, so when the Bible says God is angry, it was a figure of speech. Mmmmm… God gave us emotions. He created us in his own image. I can think of no Biblical reason why God cannot have emotions. God so loved He gave His only begotten Son. He did this emotionlessly? How can I believe in my own heart that God loves me if I believe He has no emotions? It’s an intellectual exercise He does? Larry, you posted something about this somewhere. I am sure you can add something. I read it too fast and can't remember what you said. Or where. What’s up with this? Is it possible twi skewed who God really is?

This event in my life is deeply personal. It is also pivotal. It also goes to the core of the issue we’ve been talking about. Knowledge doesn’t provide good character or genuine love. Twi was a safe harbor for those who really didn’t care about God or the things of God. “I am righteous.” “I don’t stand approved before men.” “I’m not under law but grace.” Etc. They could hide behind the intellect. This is how people could be in twi, sexually abuse children, and teach twig on Sunday… There were others of us who really did care about God. Knowledge lets us know about the God we love. But, like T-bone said, there has to be a heart response to it. Without it, all the knowledge in the world doesn’t do a thing. It really hurt me profoundly that his dad put him in the position of choosing one parent over another. I knew someday this would really hurt my son. It really did. The good thing is he has a conscience. The good thing is he is sorry and said so. He will be OK now. He also cried and said how sorry he was for all the evil his dad did to me. He is sorry for siding with him. He gets it. He really will be OK. Now. And so will I. My son is a good looking, highly intelligent (just barely missed National Merit Scholar), and very popular in college. He is vice-president of the second largest student organization on campus. He finished two years of college while in high school. I am glad he has all these things. I am more proud and more glad he has good character. Kathy, T-bone, Cman: You are the greatest. Thanks for your love.

My youngest son is visiting me. He is 19. When he was twelve, his dad and I were m & a. Not long after I divorced his dad. His dad began a psychological campaign to convince him that he was better off with him. His dad made major money, I made minimum wage. I felt the best way to get my son back was to let him go. I absolutely do not have the vocabulary to describe the pain I went through. Tonight, after seven years, I held him in my arms while he sobbed and sobbed. He knew he made the wrong decision. The guilt is eating him alive. I held him in my arms and told him how much I loved him. I told him it was ok and he is wonderful. He didn’t believe me. I told him I understood. I told him I forgive him and he needs to forgive himself. He continued to sob and sob. He said “he promised to take me fishing, and never did.” Meaning, his dad promised love and companionship and never delivered. I knew that would happen. My son now gets it I loved him and his dad never did. He clutched me, he told me over and over how sorry he was and how much he loved me. Gut wrenching sobs. The sorrow. It was terrible. What a night. His pain to me was so greater than my own.... I have three more days with him. I want to get through to him I love him so deeply. I want him to know he can’t skew up with me so much I don’t love him. I want him to forgive himself most of all. I write all this and it doesn’t begin to describe it. Not at all. If I were a great writer, maybe I could put it across... This is love. Profoundly, deeply, I dunno. ppppmfffff.....knowledge fails here.

Interesting and not off topic at all. The Pharisees had factual knowledge, but missed the point. It is one thing to carry out sin offerings and quite another to actually be sorry for the sin and try to avoid it in the future. So, yeah, I think you’re right. I think from the context the love for God and obedience arising from that love is the “key to knowledge.” Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man. Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil. “Is it referring to gaining access into a dynamic relationship with God? Jesus did speak of gaining entrance to something...just a thought...” T-bone. That would seem to be the case. Just comparing how Jesus handled things (such as the woman caught in adultery) compared to the Pharisees (as well as the verses in Proverbs): wisdom, understanding and judgment would seem to be the result of love /respect and obedience. “This knowledge being based more on His lordship than our scholarship”. T-bone. GREAT sentence. For me the whole point of understanding what is not right is to get to the point of understanding what is…

T-bone, we talked about legalism and knowledge earlier in this thread, but oddly it really didn’t sink in until I read your last post, in light of twi. I am glad you posted that. Good points, Kathy. It is interesting to me to go back and read some of these key twi verses in context. So far, I am consisting seeing vp violating his own rules for interpretation, and regardless of whether it was deliberate, certainly the fruit of it in our lives was less than the best… Also, I looked up all occurrences of “knowledge” (irrespective of Greek word). I was looking for categories in order to define what knowledge God wants us to have. I found four: a knowledge of God, a knowledge of Christ, a knowledge of Christ’s will, and word of knowledge. I am not trying to establish theology, but to make the point that had twi taken more emphasis on the first three, probably the results would have been much different (along the lines of comments by others posted above). And really that makes sense in light of Hosea (knowledge of God and the law for their day and time). Pursuing a knowledge of God and Christ gives me a lot more peace inside than doing it to fight off the spirit realm and destruction... One verse of note to me described a knowledge of God as a savour (perfume). A bit different than poison or leaven of legalism…

Erehwon It’s an acronym: Every Real Event Has Wonderment of Nuts

We know that whatsoever things written beforetime are for our plumage, and best forgotten. The word of birds is the will of birds. Silly ostrich. Nuts are for squirrels. Sand of All Ages: Birds that flock together can overcome the squirrels. Nine feathers fanning all the time. Feathers puff up, but nuts are greater. They last longer. Feather dusters rule the sand.

mmmm….pondering. Both groups sound sufficiently featherbrained, detestable, and deplorable enough to be worthy of nonparticipation. I’m sorry T-bone, but the tape destructed before I could scratch out the details and peck it apart. Pretty flocked up, imo, and quite a debacle. Relieving, restraining, and regaining the nuts may be the solution, but unfortunately, the squirrel got drunk again and chopped them all up. He is out chasing cars and demonstrates no remorse whatsoever. He’s even confronting the neighbors’ bird feeders with so much screaming and with such an air of superiority that everyone is flocking underground until it is safe to come out. To top it all off, my sand is no longer evenly distributed and the temptation to stick my head in it is overwhelming. I will believe for a better day tomorrow.

So, I take it you’re starting a new cult…with your own Bird Corps. I think you should call it the Way of Feathers and Nuts, but that might be considered degrading by some.

Dear T-bone: I am now informed the drunken squirrel is not only chopping things, but trying to bestow knighthood on the ostriches. My phone is ringing off the hook. The widgets coming out crooked, and there are unconfirmed reports the squirrel is using them as ammunition for target practice. Sincerely, A. S.

Templelady: That's the best explanation of those verses I've heard.

Dear T-bone: It has recently come to my attention there is sand in the machinery causing the wheels to grind slowly. I further understand a squirrel has been chopping and cutting things with a rusty blade. May I remind you that this constitutes an unsafe work place, and undermines efficiency. Please get your ostriches in a row in a realistic and timely fashion. If they put up a fight, then I suggest you make them to sit through your Power For Redundant Living Class, and they should stick their heads in the sand of their own accord. Sincerely, A. S. Ostrichization Handles Sand Amalgamated

PS. This opening verse indicates general knowledge of God. Hsa 4:1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because [there is] no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. They lacked general and specific knowledge. Nonetheless, this was an extreme situation. I still think taking it out of context is a distortion that leads to false conclusions because it doesn’t consider that salvation (as opposed to destruction) comes from Jesus (and that would of course include a knowledge of him).

“Thus saith the Lord' and the mind shuts off everything else. The worst hook and poison I know of.”—Cman Good point. Hi Kathy!! Ok. I’ve been thinking……. 1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. This first verse was always taught out of context. If you consider context, and the fact there was no NT available yet, “truth” refers to the truth concerning Jesus and probably changes from the OT. As a stand alone, it sounds like THE TRUTH, some all encompassing thing. Also, a big deal was made about knowledge (epignosis), ACCURATE truth. More bait. Then there’s this: Hsa 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: This is another one taken out of context, again violating VP’s own rule as if it applied to us. As a stand alone, it is a bit frightening. It leads one to believe the result of not getting enough knowledge will result in destruction. Here is the rest of the verse: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. The context is Israel walked completely away from God and began to practice idolatry. If you read the chapter, the problem was sin. They were practicing murder, ect. The lack of knowledge was specific (the Law that defined sin), as opposed to general. That’s an important distinction, but one not made by twi. As we know, Jesus addressed the sin problem, and yes we are expected to avoid it, but to say in essence if we don’t get enough knowledge (based on this verse) that we will get destroyed is baloney. More bait… The concept of knowledge was seriously abused in twi. It was our savior. It was mysticized (sp?). It was perhaps an idol.