Bolshevik

Got a letter a close dear relative was dying. I felt mopey. Got screamed at for an hour for not being a good witness and that I'll $--t when I'm told to $--t. Never got to say goodbye to that relative. Also, I once didn't clean that little area under the sink faucet nobody ever sees anyway. Dang spurts hide everywhere.

That makes a lot sense, thanks Waysider. In your opening post, "Too many of us patterned our lives after his "machismo" example." We're talking strictly about marriages here? And as it pertains to the husband alone?

Government easily regulates issues more precious than religion. Regulating religion, not heavily, not having fingers in doctrine, but perhaps not tax benefits and a little more openness. Religion affects things more important than the religion itself, IMO.

I certainly care. If we're tracing much of our bad behavior to imitating people who imitated VPW, is he really the source?

Thanks for your input Broken Arrow. Dictating who worships what is not at all something I'd want to see. But I do believe laws can be drafted and enforced that protect individuals (especially children) and society. No I don't know what those are yet. A non-draconian effort in that area, that'd be huge. And yes, nothing we do is a secret.

When dating and girl . . . (We later married and divorced) . . . we had issues . . . and I still see those issues today. We of course would seek counsel . . . repeatedly . . . multiple counselors (All Way Corps of course) . . . They could not help us because we were not married . . . we were told that repeatedly . . . There's no was no real courtship in The Way. I think that's wrong. Yes, there were men I looked up to to imitate. She looked up to the women. Both of us pointing fingers on how the other is to behave. But that's how everyone treated everyone in The Way. Marriage was nothing . . . unique. No different from the other types of relationships, if you can call those things relationships. Marriage counseling. HA! We both went in with pens and notepaper. I don't think anything was written down. Not that I can remember. You looked up to those men and women your whole life. If you didn't, they made sure you did.

Maybe YOU don't need to. You can block out my posts can't you? I don't think there's any learning between us.

That's awful JJ. Whenever go look for help I get more Bible. Everyone's a damned priest. They seem to enjoy watching me hemorrhage inside. What's a cult? Nobody knows.

You can try education. But groups can gather to fight that too. What education would have helped someone like me? Knowledge is not enough. There's got to be some teeth. GSC is a history book. Some background helps, yes. There has to be more Law. Someone who knows how would have my vote. The carnage affects society as a whole. I don't expect much . . . just throwing this out . . . If anyone knows more about that

Okay, the whole point of marriage is to Move the Word. The Word, The Bible, is violent. Is it not?

Religion vs cult, might be better to say religion vs organization. I think Law can, and is responsible to, protect its citizens. A healthy society surely can do without groups like The Way (corporate). Individuals can carry their beliefs, why do you need HQ?

I like the distinction you made here. TWI rarely did these sorts of things for the community at large, in my experience, only at times for appearances and for the "faithful". Other church-groups can do things differently.

Hi Twinky, There's always innocent bystanders that get caught up. Can you rely on churches to self-govern? Perhaps, Remove tax-exempt statuses across the board, would that remove incentive for evil?

(with apologies to Waysider for any wrong direction here) Twi lead people to a lot bad behavior. Behavior I remember to be considered normal. So how do you stop it? Prevent it? Why else would it be brought up? The government would recognize alcohol as a problem. That could be a focus for change. VPW was an ...., add alcohol, a really big ..... Would things have been different without the drinking? Toxic behavior prevented? . . . Unless this thread is just to make lists. I like lists, that's fine. Sure I can help with a list.

Are you saying you've gone down that road?

Toxic behavior . . . alcohol . . . yes it's a relevant aside.

Thanks Waysider, I don't know if you read Mrs Owens book, I seem to remember her driving some point home about "no drugs" for the hippies and how vpw was so strict about it. I've wondered why that was written. I assume for appearances. It is an un-regulated industry. Some order is not a bad thing I don't think.

Hi Allan, how's it going? No, if followers of TWI thought TWI was just leadership, just corporate, why have fervour? Make it's like a sport team. Anyone keeping score?

TWI was started by an alcoholic gathering up a bunch of hippies. Hippies on drugs, no? Altered minds get things going. Of course modern TWI takes a stance against those things. Things conveniently change. So perhaps firm enforcement against drugs and alcohol will prevent more cults from popping up? If the above is bunk, could Law prevent groups like TWI from forming? (If TWI is corporate alone, wouldn't it be Law that needs to help?)

I do seem to remember some "WE ARE THE MINISTRY" rallying back in the day. Sort of like U-S-A! U-S-A!. This was after 1999.

That is true. A lot of jobs work that way everywhere. And a new position/responsibility can change a person too.

A time period defined as before 100 A.D., or something like that, I assume ;)

Hi JJ, always appreciate your input. Dividing groups up into and distinguishing between leaders and followers is another aspect of things. A leadership position could have been filled by a number of people? No? Is it the position, within an awful system, or the person, that was to blame? I tend not to distinguish between the two. What would anyone drilled to the doctrine and practice have done given enough (apparent) power?

TWI is TWI. Hard to argue with that. On the off chance, anyone care to elaborate? A corporate entity seems to be a dominate view among the threads here. Is that all it is? Was it always? Has it morphed a number of times over the years? Easy to define or not?

Well, no, not exactly. They are TWI. Are they not?