Bolshevik

This incredibly important IMO. Growing up I would make the effort to learn about other religions, the Trinity among other topics . . but TWI would literally stop me with direct confrontation. (Happened multiple times . . . I was just curious, sheesh) When I was finally able distance myself enough to start learning about the Trinity in particular . . . it was the first time I saw how opposing viewpoints had been grossly misrepresented by TWI. (Without going into every detail) TWI was and is not making a case about doctrine and is not simply stating their view on the Trinity. They have access to knowledge and are not sharing it freely and honestly. The Way International was and is lying to and misinforming its followers about its research and beliefs. The Way International's belief system, about God, Jesus, The Bible itself, is dishonest at its foundation. It would be interesting to know when VPW started this anti-trinity campaign. I'm bet it coincides with something.

VPW siphoned off followers from other groups, (at least that's my understanding from reading at GSC), and changed his doctrine for selfish reasons. Was it the groups of people with their own ideas that influenced what VPW would teach? . . . Did he adapt to preach to the choir and win favor?

Listening to all the adults in fellowships . . . most folks never "believed in the trinity", it never made sense and so it was clear JC was not God . . . VPW taught what most folks already believed . . . or so that what was a common thing to hear.

I think there was a spiritual hunger to feed. How do you know if the Adversary is being defeated or not if nobody is cast before the crowd?

good points . . . I'm wondering if there was a trend to reduce vocabulary . . . simplify communication and expression? Did anyone think that?

Not really referring to child abuse alone . . . but how it's likely a symptom of something else. I've seen those phrases, or similar enough ones, used on adults and kids alike. These things were often done in front of audiences.

I was thinking of how "believing" was a word used everywhere . . . to the point that it had no real meaning (I'm believingly believing to believe believing bigger.) . . . I think there's another thread on it. Terms like "The Word" and "spiritual" were also used in a similar manner. What other words were used? Was there and aim to reduce vocabulary?

Business may act the part for business. When mom says a child can't play at another child's house because their friend is with "them" . . . true feelings are revealed.

The Way Disciple Program (analog to WOW program), if that's what it still is called is that still done? (I'm assuming it is). TWI hasn't grown in decades. Yet it still does witnessing events and activities. Why? Is it really to get more people in or is it just for show? Is there some legal reason to avoid taxes? To entertain the thinking of the old-timers (which is most everyone involved)?

Just remember folks, I'm screaming at you and calling you names, because I love you. Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That would have been a great thing to do if you'd checked with me first. No condemnation, but you should be ashamed. Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus oh, that may seem like a good idea in light of all this new information, but stay the course. Carefully consider the path for your feet, and all your ways will be established

This needed an honorable mention, ha ha ha. Who were the true bullies in twi? Were the true bullies even IN twi? Point at leadership. Point at followers. Blame a three-year-old, the Bible says you should.

Young Kirby salespeople, at least those I've encountered, look like they just escaped juvy. Play along with them . . . they're not really listening to their surroundings. . . or at least conditioned to ignore information their minds should be receiving . . . sound familiar? When their manager comes by, they're not much different . . . just a little more pressed for time. The routine is what matters, and there's and underling to blame. Put your hands in your pockets, nod, act excited, change your mind thirteen times. They will get angry. The won't say so . . . not to your face. What I saw in twig fellowships . . . what they really where, IMO . . . was venting sessions for failure. VPW would have got it right . . . that was always the conclusion is some way.

No, Don't know where the topic will go . . . It's a question based on observation. I think it's interesting. If he hijacked other ministries (did he truly establish one?) . . . perhaps many from those other groups he gathered assumed things about him based on experiences with other ministers. Were his abilities only implied? Did he just appeared to many one day and everyone happened to be marching his way? Did women find him charming? Or was it the power they believed him to possess? What is truth?

I took VPW's PFAL and intermediate class, on VHS. I've listened to numerous tapes by him housed a HQ. His voice was annoying and he made comments that were insulting. It was a stretch to ever find a point in his messages, and then I think those were previously conditioned to be looked for. Yet the hundreds maybe thousands of rank and file I came into contact with praise him. Some drew tears for a guy they only saw on stage, if that. Victor Paul Wierwille was a bore, IMO. Is there any current evidence that VPW had any charisma?

I'm sure you're aware of the phenomenon where someone is getting beat up on the street, and the people on the street just keep walking, don't call for help, just keep walking. Is part of denial?

In post #2 I was pointing out how much The Way sits in stark contrast to the surrounding area. A discussion on culture immediately brought The Way to the local "native's" mind. The instructor dismissed the idea it was a culture or subculture and redirected the discussion. I don't know why. Here's an article FWIW, Cult/Culture. Maybe it will make things more interesting.

VPW wasn't the first minister to have a huge influence in the sports arena. Did you know that Cotton Mather invented the wrecking ball?

I was possessed with devil spirits. So yes, I would remember things.

Dude, do you even cult? Cult followers are creepy people. If you don't know anything bad is going on behind the scenes, you're free behave as wayfers do? This mental tie to leadership's behavior. I understand it's a let down, since it's someone you look up too.

The 1970s and probably 60s/early 80s were always fresh topics, and loomed over fellowships going forward. It was/is folks from those days that are the bulk of TWI. That is the time TWI is always trying to bring people's minds back too? I don't think this separation of time periods is quite so simple.

You're right. They were outright celebrated. I assume to further shield their stand with TWI. Most of the folks in fellowships got involved in the 1970s.

I see we disagree strongly somewhere, but I do not see clearly where. I have watched many times, ever since I was a child, followers be told to their face what is going on. Matters and accusations would come up in fellowships and then laughed off. There's that delete button in their minds where memories are just not recalled. I do not believe there are any secrets. Just positions that get more difficult and ridiculous to defend.

80s, 90s, 00s, depending on how you define it. I still have family involved.

What exactly was ever a secret about The Way? Any wrong-doings The Way did, the followers everywhere knew about. At least since before I was born. Not acknowledging them as wrong was a choice by the followers in every fellowship. Does that make it a Culture of turning a blind eye?

Some movies are cult classics. The Way was not hidden. At least during the time I was there. Witnessing door to door in numerous states on the East Coast told me that. Later in Ohio, it was much more apparent the activities of the The Way were known.