Bolshevik

That's fine waysider. The followers we typically deal with today, are in their 50s, 60s and 70s. They respond positively to abusive language. But not just any abusive language. Abusive words about themselves, fine. About TWI and VPW, . . . those are fighting words. They seem to have a need for it too. Being to too nice of course, is not God's Will.

I had not heard the black heart white story. (VPW died when I was little). Thanks for the clarification. I also, wasn't alluding to revelation. But a frame of mind, or an altered perception, a person just . . . does, a mental "on switch", to speak like a leader in twi. (doesn't work very well when used outside twi)

I don't understand. . . Folks would come along and say they could "see" devil spirits. If they used way-language, everyone listened. If you're a child, you knew what to say to wayfers, you learned the language to save your backside.

I don't know if it's supernatural, maybe something akin to this?

I haven't known anyone to do a lot with a BS in Pysch, other than go to grad school. Although Foxy Q-Tip didn't bellow like The Forehead, she was similar. Tapes of VPW revealed he was a jerk, and he started the system, so I hear. Usually here we point at VPW as the source of all evil. Leadership aside, any "rank-and-file nobody" could learn the language. And use it to their gain. And they did, when leadership was absent.

I let a Kirby salesman in. I was curious. I let him go through his routine . . . but denied allowing him to do everything he thought he should . . . just because. He essentially accused me of hating my carpet, and all the world's troubles. But he had a deal for me, if I wasn't too cruel to him. His manager came by to add sales pressure. When the sale didn't happen . . . the manager blamed the salesman. (He didn't do 100% of the routine, because I wouldn't allow it, but that was HIS fault according to management). The company design of the sale always blamed the next guy down for any failure. Responsibility went down, not up. There was a call to a higher manager, and it was similar. Just like in TWI, blame always went downhill. MLM?

I'd heard that (what I posted, except maybe about the dogs) a number of times between 2000-2007. A culture of blame, prejudice, bigotry, greed, more blame, admitting awareness of possible consequences for practices, and more blame. And on top of that, blame. I probably missed some things, but that is clearly someone else's fault.

God Bless You in the most powerful name that is above all names since before the foundations of the world in God Almighty's foreknowledge, Jesus Christ. And also Christ Jesus, just to cover all basis. I know attrition in TWI has concerned some folks. But that is the wrong attitude, renew your mind. TWI is about quality, not quantity. Those who left were never that serious about God's Word. Those who stayed are more devout, so you are in good company, believer, forget the dead weights. The lesson learned from the 1970s and 80s was that TWI grew too big too manage. The large quantity of lower quality humans distracted from TWI's goal of The Word, The Word, Nothing But The Word. So witnessing techniques have had to change as well, we're always learning as a Ministry. We can't simply accept anyone. We have standards now. Witnessing must focus on "upper middle class", as a preference. These folks we know have money. Money is a sign of devotion. Devotion to God's Word. We're here to help THEM. I'm sure you understand. We'd witness to the very rich of course, but they have too much money, so their minds are corrupt. Everything in moderation folks. Also, they have guard dogs. Also, they can afford lawyers, the kind that are off The Word. So, go be a witness. And get a change of clothes. You need to look a little more . . . upper . . . middlish . . class. Bless.

Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups . . . from Penworks' link. Every point checks for TWI. The pre-occupation with making money . . . Foxy Q-Tip once announced making some list, the same list Scientology (Tom Cruise and Xenu and friends) had fought for, does anyone remember what that list is? Q-Tip made a big deal about tax-exempt status, really emphasized that point, professing the desire to work together with other churches (look how we're so open-minded . . . *barf*) Years earlier, Way Disciple, we were strictly instructed not to witness to people who looked like illegal immigrants (*cough* "short and brown") . . . because it somehow risks tax-exempt status. Is breast-feeding a tax-exemption?

Absolutely not. Did we sign something to become American citizens? Just remove conditions that encourage cult leaders to build cults. Income to maintain a home for family and children is taxed. Churches should be taxed.

I don't know if TWI is religious in nature or not . . . how does one define religion versus outright scam? Was TWI a movement, it just ultimately failed? I believe VPW existed. He broke no laws? Small green cards were signed and videos were made and people coerced to watch them. Yes, some line was crossed that could be articulated . . . (IMO) . . . without going into the "OMG, Freedom of Religion, My rights! blah blah blah" Maybe the green card could have some footnote about how its claims were not approved by the FDA, and is not recommended for pregnant women and children. Use at your own risk.

The defense FOR TWI usually involves saying "cult" is a ubiquitous, over-used, randomly-used, term. There's no legal way to define a cult, is there? The frustration, maybe, is looking a wayfer in the eye, knowing that they know that you know that they know that you know that they know. But nobody can be the accuser, and nobody can admit to wrong.

Call TWI a hate group. Or is that milking it?

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Remember this? Honestly I think this STARTED more conflict than resolved it. Hmmm . . . that guy looked at me funny . . . What does the Word say? . . *grabs Bible, leaves Bless Note on door to meet . . . or else* Nice to have little bashing sessions? The four of us have gathered here because Joe Believer saw you went to the store alone, not two by two. You are likely devil-spirited possessed. We're hoping our stern looks of disappointment and head nods will help you to renew you mind and come back to the Household with the rest of us mentally balanced folk. And how many stuck around once it was time to tell the Church? You burned the toast again. We've gone over this. Now we will break you to tears before the crowd. We're doing this because we love you and are saving you from you.

This is very similar to the fact, in Twig fellowships back to the 80s and 90s, groups of people would openly talk about how "we are the BEST cult out there" Ask the same people years later . . . they'll deny ever knowing the The Way is labeled as a cult by some. To know that you know that you don't know you know, . . . you know?

Make sure to distinguish between the words "research" and "research" (pronounced re-search). As a workman of the Word, the first thing you need to know is that the work has been done. He built a bridge . . . and we crossed it . . . something . . so there's no need to research. Just re-search VPW's work. Anything else is a waste of time and resources, a distraction. I personally find great pride in knowing someone else does work so I don't ever have to. One of the many benefits of being born again in The Word.

VPW was a rapist, right? Or did I read that wrong? "International Meeting Place For People Attracted to the Thinking Process and Reasoning of a Rapist and Those Under Strict Coercion of Such Types for The Movement Bowels of No Mercy" Isn't that a more accurate term for HQ? I guess the acronym is too cumbersome.

Like VPW, I also remember when my field of study became more than an academic pursuit. They were called student loans. But let's not get carried away with facts of life, I have an ego to feed. Kids too. But mostly my ego.

:o . .. There's a thread topic in every sentence . . . you've struck GSC gold . . .

The Way International page article has They are a group with issues. Multiple issues. That's an integer at least? So not partial issues. That would be less serious. You might see some of the issues. Another person might report other issues. Others yet might see new issues. In the end, you're all wrong.

look at wikipedia Scroll to the bottom:

I can't speak of any knowledge of bodyguards. VPW was dead and gone before my memory. I can speak for the system, the culture, the way of life. Everyone was involved. Everyone participated. Everyone was bullied. Everyone was a bully. In fact, I can't think of anyone NEW coming to fellowship that wasn't coerced to be there. It takes being bullied to get involved with TWI. It takes becoming a bully to stay involved with TWI.

What did you fail at? Take control of what? What job? Change what things? "Hey, stop bullying! Check up from the neck up" "Um, okay, thanks for the reproof man, I really missed the mark that time." "No condemnation"