Bolshevik

So did Wierwille dupe Rosie or visa-versa? I'm confused. Someone beat him at his own game? (Which makes you wonder how many tried and failed . . . how common was this?) You knew Donna's motives? (How is that known?) You don't care whether anyone connects the dots? (Which dots exactly? The secret puzzle a secret to YOU, is all YOU can say. Remember, I couldn't have been part of his cabal, but you could have been.) Why should someone a fraction your age take the blame for this? That doesn't bother you? *I* am not responsible for the actions of Victor Paul Wierwille and company, despite what the Internet implies to those never affiliated with The Way International. I also don't care. That's why I wrote this. *snort*

Sure. But these levels . . . can we say they exist today? I don't think they do. When I was a kid . . . I heard a lot of "this sort of thing used to be for the Corps only", "WOW outreach was a cakewalk compared to Way D". The shells of The Way washed away in the 80s. (Didn't many cults expire back then?) Honestly, "moving up the ladder" in TWI, I saw little to no difference than the field. (Life was easier in places like HQ, in some ways, because conflict from "the world" was removed. The Living Hell caused by Waydale's "in your face" attitude and whatever else could be ignored and some sense of peace could be found . . . if for a moment. You could argue Waydale worked in TWI's favor, by increasing isolation. The world's hatred raining down via some website, as if TWI itself wasn't twisted enough?) Point at leadership. Everyone knows the accusations. Nobody will go to jail. So what if there's an inner sanctum? Society gave people to VPW/LCM/Rosie et al for some reason.

What was the term? "You're not Spiritually mature enough to handle it"? Translation: "We need to set up a few more conflicts before we think you'll See it the way we want you to See it"?

(as an aside) This reminds me of how we were told we serve because we are thankful for The Word that was given to us. We're Thankful because The Word says we are to Be Thankful. We were given The Word, and we are to now share The Word to others. We share The Word to others by serving. Or something . . . I was still mentally working that out when someone handed me a weed-wacker and pointed a long fence along some field in Ohio.

I was thinking of the larger culture, the "hippie culture", the atmosphere of the United States, of which The Way itself was within. Times change and previously accepted behaviors are later demonized. I'm not sure what the candy-coated version was. The Way International I remember could scream at you in front of groups, rough you up a bit, and there would be no witnesses. Because everyone had that "delete button". The Eyes see, the Mind forgets, or does quite a bit of editing. Hard to stand on a moving surface. This "inner sanctum", I read often. I don't deny there was a favored upper class, 0.01 % (not that I witnessed it, wait, yes I did, their offspring). It's relevance, so what? Things were bad on the bottom, and they always were.

From above: Interesting. Or was his behavior simply consistent with the culture and simply ignored?

Yes it is. I had intention with this thread. Followers of The Way are often stuck in a time warp. I think someone mentioned that may have began very early on. It's like VPW just grabbed people where they were . . . and just held them. After his death . . . nobody did that right. (Although many theories about his death and leadership fallout are probably good ones.) How early on was this seen? Today we compare TWI with decades ago. But maybe this outdated look could be seen as early as the 70s? Anyone know?

The things that never happened are some of the biggest victories. What could have been is something I take a lot of pride in. (Not that everyone fully appreciates that, but I persist in telling the story of what wasn't.)

The fall of the Soviet Union. The concept for McDonald's The hook shot.

Start Here. And report back.

Is this where "the hippies" came from? Was drug use (among "followers") an aid at all to VPW's launching of The Way. I wouldn't argue that with the judge ;)/>/>

Don't know yet. From what I've read drugs were more prevalent in the culture in those days, and an influence for cults. What you've said is consistent with my experience, decades later. (I was brought before leadership by my own parents, I had tried nicotine *gasp*. Parental units were very concerned about the devil spirits. Leadership had to assure them that nicotine wouldn't open the door to devil spirits).

Mrs. Owen wrote in "Just the Way It Was" (I think that's the name, I tossed my copy out years ago) about how VPW never allowed drugs among the hippies. This was mentioned a couple times I remember. I found the emphasis on that point odd. Maybe it begged the question. So . . . . . . did drugs help move The Word?

I've been working on a question that goes in the other direction. There seemed to be a lot of groups similar in nature to The Way, from the same time period. I wasn't there . . . but it appears "the world" caused the cults (the kind we here have in common).

From Wikipedia

Sleep Link: Here Just a reminder this study likely did not included factors such as SIT, Believing, and God's Hand of Protection.

Everyone wants to be the next VPW. Isn't that the common thread to it all?

Yes, in Way Disciple I was told I would .... when I was told to ...., among other things. I'm pointing out that TWI followers are not ignorant of these practices or of these arguments. (and to say working people are sleep deprived, AND that's self-inflicted . . . I think that ignores quite a bit how the world (the real world) works. That's another topic.)

(A number of times I was made to stand for entire fellowships. Maybe I was sleep deprived. Maybe that crap was boring. Maybe both.)

In twig fellowships, this argument was typically dismissed because it is not unique to cults. Most working people are sleep deprived.

The question is how to communicate "with the dead". But some turns have been taken . . . that never happens here. The internet cut off the "escape route" for some of us, by killing new relationships outside of TWI. (Make a new friend . . they read God-knows-what on waydale, they're gone). That is not enlightenment. That is prison. Waydale was a greater enemy than VPW/LCM et al. So, how to speak to walking dead?

TWI was a product of the times. A product of The United States of America. Yes, TWI will die. Not soon. Cult is family.

Yes, it isolates young people in TWI. That is one effect of the internet. Children are born to twi, and because of the internet, "worldy people" can know to avoid these children, those evil evil children, extending their time in twi? For that I hate "the internet", Waydale in particular, a site I never visited. Why not go after leadership instead? There is no fire, that's imagination, at best. The internet was never an extinguisher. LCM did the extinguishing.

The internet had nothing to do with TWIs fall. Waydale/GSC are just part story. What metric is there to show those websites didn't cause as much damage to people's lives the Way Corps? We grew up with the internet. It brought its own evil. LCM didn't speak the language well enough. How do you reach a wayfer?