Bolshevik

Raf, I think we're getting a little closer to understanding one another. I wasn't thinking you'd be burning anyone at the stake. From a practical standpoint, depending on our situations out here in the real world, other people judge by labels. Other people might put all atheists into one group, and call that a religion. The individual atheists might not see themselves as a cohesive group with one another, but if a vast majority of non-atheist do, it's a reality to deal with. If atheism is a religion to others it might as well be to you, as an atheist, practically speaking. "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Clause" - I was also thinking of that this morning, it is a good analogy. But maybe money is a better analogy? It's also backed by faith, is conceptual, and there are those who'd rather ignore it. (I'll try to pick it up on my grammar, thanks for the suggestion.)

Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God? This is a neat question, it covers a lot of nuances. My thought is that it is a question of how people understand each other. Is your view of reality similar to mine? I tend to think language would be an analogous example. Do Brits, Americans, and Australians speak the same language? What part of America speaks the correct American English? Can they understand each other all the time, almost effortlessly? Italian, Spanish, Romanian, and some others all evolved from Latin. Much like religion evolves into other religions and sects. If someone's spoken language is more similar in origin to another person's spoken language they might understand each other more easily, even if they can't speak exactly the same language. (And from here we could go into how your language affects how you think and see the world.) Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God? They have a common origin. So yes and no. Yes they share some of the same understanding versus other religions. No, they don't see eye to eye in other ways.

It appeared to me you'd connected past and present by bringing up Jesus, unless you're bringing up a present day Jesus, but I don't think that changes much. Maybe I'm still missing your meaning. Sorry if I do.

There are those who argue the Bible itself is plagiarized from other, earlier religions (just to point out yes, we can argue this ad infinitum ). Your are expected to cite verses that you're quoting, I believe. You can't present the Bible as your own work. A google search might clear that up. I'm also thankful many of us don't have the hardships like many who live in the middle east. If the Bible helps you navigate life, use it. But, I don't see how that dismisses what VPW did. He was fully capable to understand what he did, know it wasn't right, and did it. I think you agree. The plagiarism should raise an eyebrow and lead to more questions. Jesus flipped over the money changer tables, if I remember correctly.

Reviewing the opening post, it is typically a question for baiting, in my experience. I believe you were discussing being judged based on a label in a previous post, which was what I was hinting at. If I don't connect with your reasoning, sorry. I tried.

Does the United States exist? What makes anything exist? God exists because his believers do. But doesn't absolutely mean he exists. Is that any clearer? Um, our interaction (on GSC) is extremely brief, to my memory. We all live among those who disagree with us, and will do us harm for having a different opinion. If that is more clear.

I disagree. This is not a doctrinal or biblical website. (At least I'm not here for the purpose of arguing for or against that matter of The Bible). It's about VPW's motives and his affects on others. And that involves Victor Paul Wierwille's interpretation of it and how he used it. VPW used The Bible. He could have also used the Quran. The Talmud. The Silmarillion. Or any holy book.

SIT keeps your mind void of productive thought, critical thinking, or anything not having to do with Victor Paul Wierwille and his Ministry. Kind of prepares you for RETEMORIES. Get that Word in your mind. Interpretation of Tonuges helps a person to work through the embarrassment and shame of foolish, destructive behavior. Helps one to go witnessing. Walk up to others and speak the Word of Victor Paul Wierwille, even if it makes absolutely no sense to your own mind. Prophecy gives it all some umphff. Forget the hesitation. BUILD UP MORE FOLLOWERS WHO WILL ALSO GO WITNESS. Show some enthusiasm (from the Greek, in Theos, meaning "in the oss"). Each one win one. Confession - I confess, I don't know.

Bumping thread. The Law of Believing, I think has been compared to The Law of Attraction before. I heard critics refer to The Law of Attraction it as "ego-inflation". A google search of Law of Attraction and ego inflation brought up this LINK, as an example.

A lot of people put a lot of trust in Victor Paul Wierwille, and he betrayed them. I don't know how much farther it goes than that.

Link with update on TWI's Research Department HERE.

Tax the Churches. Freedom from religion.

It's easy I think to see plagiarism as wrong in academia, which is what most of the google searches seem to come up with. An analogous concept might be patents and copyrights, which expire. Then everyone is free to use them. There's the idea of ownership which not all cultures share. A wayfer could draw and argument there . . . we're in it for the information. Who cares the source? I thought this was a neat LINK. Why is VPW's plagiarism important? I doubt most rank and file twig/HH fellowship goer hasn't heard the sources and accusation of plagiarism. Or if they're not aware they should have figured that out on their own. A follower of TWI is NOT interested in TRUTH. Not interested in learning. Not interested accuracy. Not interested in WORK. Not interested in UNDERSTANDING. Not thorough or interested in details or the big picture. Not knowing TWI's material is plagiarized means you're incompetent. Not understanding why it's wrong means you're own words mean nothing.

Indeed. He built a ministry for those who want to know the Truth. Hebrews 11 style. Thousands and thousands of individual wayfers can't be WRONG?

Juedes' view is Trinitarian logic. Your plagiarism argument is invalid.

IMO . . TWI called everything "FEAR". As soon as they feel that emotion they block it. I've heard fear is similar to pain, in that it warns of danger. I would think that impulse to block fear is analogous to wanting to numb pain. So now there's a discomfort for having discomfort, in the mind of a wayfer. Double whammy. And BTW. It's not a RESEARCH ministry. It's a RE-, SEARCH ministry. No idea is unique, there's nothing is new under the sun. VPW simply was guided by God to find that information in other people's works, and put it all in one convenient ministry. And everything is GOD's.

( skyrider I think your inbox is full, it says you can't receive messages)

Skyrider, If you have a list of threads, particularly on dialogue with Wayfers. Your guidance would be welcome. (I've been on and off here for some years . . . and I do dig for info, but if you have some info that I can apply, you'll more than prove your point :) )

Okay. I'm here because I deal with "innies". Sorry for an omitting.

If you were referring to my statement it wasn't to argue. (I may use the word "perspective" differently.)

If you're saying this a public forum. Got it.

I'm referring to people's ideas, not the people. When it comes to wayfers, just because they don't know something doesn't mean they weren't told or didn't see anything. As one example - I've had much older generations tell me they've told wayfers a hundred times before I was born about TWI. The mind just deletes - sort of - (some things resurface occasionally)

You don't need new people for new perspectives. People change, their perspectives change. Aren't most of us in contact with wayfers anyway? I saw the effects of the internet starting 20 years ago. When I've tried to discuss it's been poo-pooed, since there's only been one true way to view it - as some sort of success story - and not something that increased confusion.

There's a lot going on here. I have numerous situations and people that require dealing with Wayfers or Way-Brained or even aggressive Anti-Wayfers. Sometimes things conflict with what I've read on GSC. So I always have questions. This IS a good place to ask some of those questions. Reading praise of GSC has helped nothing. And I have had to work around the dominant thinkings of the forums, because I come from a minority group. That takes some effort. It is what it is.

Fight Club. Totally. Edited to add: I'm not sure how "less spiritual hunger" is gauged. Maybe that goes back to the definition of spiritual, did you mean the same thing as it was used in TWI?