Bolshevik

I know, as a child even, I was shunned or attacked or held at a certain distance at times for being what I am: FROM A CULT. I know outsiders do not care about your history or if you were victimized. They don't care VPW and others had agendas. They don't care about what choices you did or didn't make. You're from a cult. That means you're a yucky person. Don't allow your cult-nonsense on them. If the view or goal is to fix problems, stop cycles, understand and end the nonsense . . . maybe enabler, facilitator, perpetrator is the best view?

You're minimizing what TWI did, does, and is. Minimizing is a type of denial. It is now my understanding that this is a form of abusive language. HERE. (see EXAMPLES) Someone, correct me if I'm wrong. That's just what I'm seeing now.

Remember those? Go out witnessing and come back and be like, "Hey met some sticks . . . they're out in left field" Made them sound like mystical creatures. Never met any hobbits or elves out witnessing. But plenty of sticks. Maybe, um, The Way Tree analogy was taken Way Too seriously?

You left and open door. We're to LOOK for open doors to witness The Word. The Word is The Written Bible without ERROR. If you don't want to be witnessed to, don't LOOK like you want to be witnessed to. See how it all fits? Like a hand in a Blender.

I think that's a good point. I've generally thought of a Twig/HHF as self-destructive in nature. With leadership or with no leadership, it doesn't matter. To practice the teachings of VPW is to eventually attack each other.

I would think "yes, not all, but yes" to all your questions. Involvement with a cult at any level is a poor decision.

Maybe break this point down a bit. Maybe it won't look so absurd after further investigation. Our minds by nature look for patterns and irregularities. Biologically, that's their job. It's a tool to be aware of and learn to master it's use. In The Way, IMO, we were taught, conditioned, shown by example, to immediately and aggressively jump to conclusions and defend that position whenever our minds notice something like what you've pointed out in your post. edited for grammar

I'm trying to understand the subliminal part better. I would think it starts there. I don't think people immediately fall for outrageous ideas like "inventor of the hook shot", but are prepared to do so in small steps. In the example with Rosie there were previously built habits and assumptions, like where to look, which I assumed was The Word. (The Word, The Word, Nothing but The Word.) Rosie becomes the "source" and is able to deny taking credit. I noticed similar items in the STS, after LCM was disposed of, where non-Word references were mentioned. Maybe to give TWI credibility as knowledgeable, or keep Wayfers thinking they don't need to look outside The Way for information.

Here

Corps (and really not just Corps) were part of a system. One person can be influenced and manipulated by numerous Corps, each acting independently. An individual can be abused "by a thousand cuts" so to speak. (not counting VPW), Can any one person be responsible for that? An individual Corps can be held responsible for choosing to part of the system, accepting and applying VPW-doctrine. Perpetuating wrong, day after day. At some point I think a victim is fooled too many times to honestly be the victim anymore. That's something that can't be applied equally across the board, IMO.

A similar tactic is the corn field analogy. The rows of corn in the middle of a field are more protected from the elements by the outer rows and therefore grow taller and stronger with better yield, (that's just the analogy, if that's a fact I don't know). So the idea is that moving closer to the center of more believers, such as a root locale or going Way D, shields you from "the world" and gives you a better environment to grow. Instead of leadership, the larger group of believers was the draw. (And pointing at leader as bogus is easy, pointing a group of people that changes individuals out over time is much more difficult.) And you, do want to be a better person, don't you?

(off topic) In essence, I think so. My folks were not corps. They are obedient lifers. They did often preach that "if it's good for the corps it's good for their kids". I don't know where that idea came from. To please your parents meant to do anything Way-related. The wooden spoon is symbolic of that unconcerned attitude, or whatever it is. At one point I spoke with leadership about going corps. I decided I wanted to go to school, first. My ex-wife was also raised by VPW-worshippers. When my first son was born, it finally dawned on me The Way was the source of a lot of problems, and a threat to my children's well-being. Way-related arguments and schisms among family began before I was born. A person's choice to be involved with The Way affects everyone. Edited to add: I enjoy reading your posts, DWBH.

Yes . . . there's potential for "fan fiction" of VPW's view of The Bible and life. Rivenbark provided a topic. Her position as President implied that the topic was important to note. In the effort to understand it, my source was The Word, which is what The Way International claims to be about. There's a temptation there to force the two, the topic and The Word, together. I believe I was conditioned to do that by having to listen to LCM every week for all of my teenage years. Knowing the true source, helps prevent all sorts of horsecrap at it's source.

Rosalie Fox Rivenbark, to my knowledge, President of The Way International. AKA, Her Holy Q-Tip. One time maybe ten years ago or more, during the noon meal, Rosie spoke at the lectern. Her topic was written, and she read her thoughts to us all. I remember it because she spoke about a subject, a philosophical point I won't go in to. I remember looking for that topic in The Word. We were there to learn and do The Word, The President spoke about a topic, so I went to study and understand it for myself. To me, that was a logical, sensible, thing to do. I never found that topic in The Word. I asked around a little, nobody else cared, I had to drop it. I probably would have asked Rosie herself, but that never happened, for one reason or another. Recently, I heard the topic again. It didn't come from The Word. It came from Aristotle, I believe. I will never really know Rosie's source, she never told me. My thoughts were, upon hearing this topic again, "OH . . . THAT'S where Rosie got this idea . . . so why didn't she just say that? It would have made things so much easier . . . oh . . . crap . . . . that F'king B'ch." I thought about the time and energy I wasted searching for something that wasn't there. I thought about the recent Why Plagiarism Matters? and Wierwilleism's threads on GSC. I think part of the point of those threads is that Wierwille wanted all sources of information to go through him. He would mention his sources later, but not until his followers identified that information with the name Wierwille and not someone else. I will probably always think of Rosie when a certain topic, or word, is mentioned, because not only did I hear it from her first, but I put effort into trying to understand what SHE was talking about. A wasted endeavor, but an unintended lesson learned years later. Victor Paul Wierwille was many folks' "Father in The Word" because he made sure information went through him. He made Himself the source. A lot of people associate a lot of information with Victor Paul Wierwille. I think a lot of those people guard the image of Victor Paul Wierwille because they associate so much of their thinking process with him. I imagine removing him from that pedestal comes at a great mental cost to those folks. That process is likely painful, if they choose to follow through with that. Also, Rosie is a f'ching b'th. The internet needs to know.

We have no Facebook friends when it comes to The Word. Then again, nobody can go beyond what they've been taught conditioned to believe. SIT, lame dog, SIT. That would require considering other views, which can be uncomfortable, and fear is sand in the machinery of life. So how to we remedy this? Wouldn't want to be caught dead lion. And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip VPW that he would come up and sit with him. Acts 8:31, Over-spiritualized Version According to Convenient Usage.

Waysider, that deserves a thread all it's own. Reading your post I was thinking, "I wasn't part of fellowlaborers, only know about it because of Waysider's posts . . . but as I read them the feeling is familiar" Fellowlaborers is like Corps is like Way Disciple is like Staff is like Wow is like Twig/HHF four days a week plus witnessing nights is like following the demanding schedule required of folks taking PFAL for the first time . . . etc. I've transitioned between a number of those. People treated me different when moving up the ladder. But I wasn't different, not in a good way. At some point I realized there was nothing more to gain pushing forward.

If speaking in tongues were proven to be true: It would demonstrate that God is genuinely not worth worshiping. Why not speak through telepathy? Pray in your closet, like Jesus or somebody suggested. And if communicating to a group, what is said I think would be more important than how. When has prophecy/interpretation ever blown your mind? Yea, my little children, I hold in the palm of my hand. We've gone over this before. Thought you needed to hear that again, accompanied by some gibberish, which makes it more real or something. Now study to be stewards, put on the Word, and go forth and be a witness to vain and profane babbling. Lo shanta alle hanta lo meesh elephanta. Lo bromo nomo gommo flo nood sing soggo. Actual Translation: We just wanted to see if you'd actually take this foolishness seriously. The angels enjoy a good laugh.

Ah! . . . so we're tilting at Wierwilles?

Superior Orders, relevant?

I frequently remind myself that I am more than a super-conqueror through Christ Jesus. If anyone tries to point out that I'm not better than everyone else, I tell them "Get thee behind me Satan". I put on the breastplate of self-righteousness and deflect the fiery darts of The Adversary. Take on the whole armor. And stand. Ignore the laughter. Gird a pork-loin or something. Just stand there.

These "corps" were mostly children, folks in their early 20s? Nobody else wanted them apparently. So there was a large market available, just sitting there. It says Wierwille was an opportunist. What he gathered, was his.

10,000 followers X $25,000 annual net income X 15% ABS = $37.5 million per year, TAX FREE They could have hired better people to build a sustainable organization. Sustainability wasn't the goal, was it?

I'm sure there's a thread on the topic here somewhere. Might be worth looking into. I wouldn't say fear is never healthy.

No, fear can be very healthy. Probably ignorance is better. Or a good imagination crossed with delusion. Not important. We now have "fear and loathing" the overlords. Anyone from a Las Vegas Limb? This is important. . .

Bang on a stranger's door during dinner time tell them about God's word. Ignore the silent stares and disgust from society. Can't stand up to a twig leader. Why? Social pressure.