Bolshevik

Well okay. I guess that supports the idea that VPW chose a non-Trinitarian view because he was looking for certain types of minds. TWI was not for just any type of mind.

Is the suggestion here, that VPW could have survived past 1985 had he got the surgery sooner? He was so committed to his delusional belief system HE created that he died for it?

West Woods camping all the way. Not like all the losers in Tent City.

If you're saying there's facts everyone can see and the rest is inferred based on those facts, and there can be many opposing inferences, than, yes, that makes sense.

Hi Raf, I'm sure if a God existed, he would be bigger than a book. JMO. VPW chose the non-trinity; God, Jesus, holy spirit, being completely separate or Holy Spirit being a synonym with God. He could have chose to add to the Trinity. Maybe making 7 parts to a God? (The Septuanity Although more aspects would certainly make more sense for an infinite God.) The World only sees a Three-part God, we see Seven, behold our knowledge in TWI! If those beliefs (trinity vs. non-trinity) have no affect on other beliefs, or practices, it would not be that important, IMO. It's just a belief that stand alone as is not really part of a greater system.

Yeah . .

"staunch"

The topic of the Trinity comes up when talking with followers of The Way International. It also comes up on this website. I should probably begin by asking you TLC, were you at some point fellowshipping with The Way International? I prepare for arguments and conflicts that I know are coming. That is something that makes sense to me. I asked a rhetorical question. <---- See Link. Your previous comment I found condescending. So I asked a rhetorical question hoping it would help us understand each other. I, at least, had the impression you were wanting to go into doctrinal aspects in order to explain your viewpoints in a previous thread. Am I wrong?

Hi Waysider, I agree. TWI is about control. The Trinity, IMO, is one of the bigger hurdles, more so than tithing, I think. It appears to me, right now anyway, that the non-Trinitarian view in more conducive to certain types of thinking than the Trinitarian view. The types of thinking that comes from minds like VPW. In TWI, people drill their own minds to think like VPW (Or at least once did). When wayfers argue against the Trinity they may really be having another argument entirely. (That's not to support The Trinity, it is a argument against VPW's overall thought process).

Well, you do know how to break up a post. It takes the same type of thinking to believe in any type of God at all, doesn't it? Let's assume it's unavoidable. It comes up. Feel free to expound on what you mean. This IS doctrinal.

TLC, HERE

This is related to the Trinity thread in About The Way. 1) I'm not a Christian, therefore I'm not for or against or believe in The Trinity/Unitarianism/Anti-Trinity stances. 2) My main interests are understanding how a Wayfer's minds thinks (in general), how to approach them, and VPW's motives and consequences of his actions. And other topics related to those points. 3) I assume everyone here agrees a person's belief about The Trinity guarantees nothing about their character. 4) My background is being raised in TWI. I have followed no other religion/belief system. 5) VPW can be agreed with or disagreed with here. I'd prefer to refrain from blatant bashing. I'm hoping some Christians (or some who understand) can explain why The Trinity is important to many Christians, why VPW's anti-Trinity stance was significant, and how the non-Trinity view may have affected other doctrines of Christianity in TWI. (What might have been intended and unintended consequences.) What role does the Trinity play and what did VPW disrupt? Also, if you are Anti/Non Trinity. The question is the same or similar, but from your doctrinal perspective.

HA! I forgot about the lights frying his eyeball claim. This Rosal1nd R1nker? HERE

Obviously, that type of God would not have those limits. My understanding is that VPW put limits on people's thinking with many phrases, should they chose to accept them. (i.e., you can't go beyond what you are taught) I remember obscure verses like "he magnified his Word above His Name" to stress that focus of The Word over God. In TWI, The Word is something to control God with. (My guess) is the non-Trinitarian view was a more simplified, limiting, approach. Easier for VPW to control his followers with. It also helped define Wayfers between "other Christians". Non-Trinitarian is part of a Wayfer's identity. It distinguishes folks more starkly between "US" and "THEM". It is interesting that Wayfers don't typically say they're "Unitarian" or some other term. They repeatedly attack The Trinity, instead. Letting go of the anti-Trinity stance is an admission that you don't have the powers you once thought you had. The world is a big, scary, uncontrollable place.

I like to look at people's lawns. I did years of landscaping. A dozen at least. If I see one blade of grass a different length than all the others, that tells ME everything I need to know about THEM (the owner's of the grass) . . . right? I remember, people would come in from around the country just to walk down Wierwille Road and see the grand spectacle of acre after acre of grass the exact same height. I mowed a lot of it myself. Trust me, it wasn't. But, on the other hand, it was, how else would folks leave with such deep spiritual blessings after personally witnessing a running their fingers through the grass?

Technically no, I won't, as was pointed out in this thread before. I also think Hitler was a bad individual. I never met the guy, so, I could be wrong. Which means everything else I know about existence must be wrong . . . so . . . VPW constructed a doctrine and ministry for purposes that did not involve a search for truth and helping other people. The Trinity is important to discuss. I think you carry valuable insight into that matter. I don't know you, so I might be wrong.

TLC, Sometimes, just see the forest for the trees. Not just The Way Tree. Edited to fix link. . . .Details details details Bahahahahaha!

This wasn't just "kitchen table talk". Sometimes it was the population of the OSC dining room. Sometimes it was part of teachings in fellowships or parking lots. It was frequent, and it was in many locations, and many different people, 99% of them of no relation to me. Also, when I was a child, I thought that PFAL grads were good, honest-speaking, people.

Ah! . . . . Back to The Law of Not Accepting Believing. Thanks T-Bone, and Steve. Being brought up in TWI, the viewpoints of the "false Christians" were not exactly honestly represented. I think this whole Trinity thing speaks volumes. I appreciate your explanations. T-Bone, I've heard the exalted and servant position of Jesus in TWI, I think. Hearing that again from your post, Jesus being both low and high at the same time seems contradictory. I think that's amazing. And I don't think TWI taught it quite like that.

TLC, Victor Paul Wierwille was a bad human being. There's no way around that. His teachings lead people to do evil. Evil teachings came from an evil man. I've expressed to you in other threads that through that lens of understanding does the story of TWI make any sense. (Occam's razor) I was present to witness and experience enough. Whether Jesus is God or not or existed at all is beside all points. Victor Paul Wierwille had a reason for ousting The Trinity, based on his character, it was not for good. Many who've been influenced by VPW and his ministry, TWI, cling to that doctrine, and the reason is unlikely to be for the simple, knuckle-dragging reason of doctrinal purity.

ha! . . . okay we'll try and slow it down a bit. 1. Victor Paul Wierwille had a purpose for writing Jesus Christ is Not God and making it a central TWI doctrine. 2. Those reasons were for evil. 3. Ex-Wayfers can't seem to let that doctrine go. 3b. Many of those who have let the doctrine go can admit it was one of the bigger hurdles. 4. A lot of folks create excuses for clinging to that doctrine. 4b. Usually they use a lot of deflective tactics. 5. That is interesting . . .

You put the "caring" in quotes, not sure why. I remember in TWI it was said if you can SIT you are born again and that can never be taken away. So constant searching for just the right, correct doctrine is liking digging for gold in a gold rush. It's motivated by greed and a lot folks end up with less than they started with?

Hi T-Bone, I've read elsewhere on GSC, a number of posters have said something to this effect . . . my understanding being that VPW, starting with the Christian faith as his initial framework, needed to push Jesus and the role he filled aside . . . creating a void for someone VPW had in mind to conveniently fill. This was a way to sidestep compassion, empathy, and other items which certain individuals may have been lacking already. You're saying it's not an argument of identity (Trinity V. non-Trinity), that's a red herring. It's about roles to play?

I think motives in this case are more telling than reasoning. I'm atheist, so I don't care whether the Christion God is Jesus or a Lizard. You're very clear on your view that The Trinity was devised as part of some greater conspiracy theory, as opposed to maybe a joke by the ruling class on the plebes. My understanding is that this would have happened thousands of years ago. So today, who cares? That was a long time ago. It is also my understanding that VPW went against the grain in adopting a non-Trinitarian view. So, in leaving TWI, and remaining a Christian, wouldn't there be a benefit to adopting The Trinity? You'll connect easier with billions of people. Unless maybe that's not a motive to be considered?