Bolshevik

I was going to joke about "do you believe God has a right hand"? But then you mention a group of people who can only believe what their five senses tell them. I'm sure it's been gone over there are more than five senses. But are senses the only source of belief? (sounds a lot like not going beyond what we are taught) We know things from birth. That's knowledge the senses didn't bring in.

The way I understand is The Father represents law and order, The Holy Spirit, symbolized by a bird in the air, is chaos, from which creation comes (as in the first view verses of Genesis). You could also view HS as mother. That's very general. I did quick google search and there seems to be more of that thinking out there. To me it just points to the idea that there is something in common between the two that is real and true and gave rise to each concept.

I like this T-Bone. It reminds me of seeing the Trinity as an analog to Yin/Yang. The interface between them being the goal of one's walk. Focusing on Jesus being analogous to that line.

I was going to say this was maybe not on topic. But I am wondering what is meant by the Bible being a source? It doesn't produce or perceive anything. That might be a topic for another thread. I more concerned in this thread, if possible, on how the trinitarian/non-trinitarian view affects one's thought process. (or vica versa) Goldstar if I might ask. You've made it clear you are at least anti-trinitarian. So how do you think that impacts your views and decisions in life? (And I'm assuming there's more than just being against something, against the trinity. So you are for something, yes?)

The answer usually given has been cognitive dissonance. They've been lied to. They've accepted the lies. They live in a false reality. They now lie to themselves and have to protect that reality for the sake of sanity or a sense of stability. At this point, when they speak to others, constantly defending their little world, are they even able to recognize they are lying to others?

I think I'm speaking more generally. In terms of their roles that would be seen in non-christian religions as well. For your question: Renewal? Like a pheonix from its ashes. The Way is stagnant, yes? They do not accept change, not even clothing sometimes. Jesus would represent the constant change that would keep the bureaucratic structure or role of the Father from becoming too rigid and collapsing into tyranny.

If aspects of the trinity are shown to occur across time and peoples and religions I'm not sure how one can conclude it to be false. The Way focuses in and hyper emphasizes The Father aspect. Which has its role and benefits, such as order and protection, but taken to an extreme represents tyrannical nature.

Proclaiming? Like witnessing?

I originally was trying to be more general in this topic so I put it in Open. Probably a tall order on my part. Plagiarism is generally accepted and understood as wrong and yet there is likely some honest grayness there. Why is that? When it comes to VPW's "teachings" I find they don't work. Plagiarism is just part of the explanation of why. Nobody did any real work. VPW was not some apex of bringing previously thought out ideas together. Because it doesn't work. Even if we give the plagiarism a pass, and take ideas as owned by the community, belonging to nobody, (or just to God), you've still got to demonstrate they are useful.

You stated "you're babbling" I tried to understand your view and re-explained mine. You were trolling.

Your first sentence, where you add "exist as a person or not", was not abundantly clear from the opening post, which I read a serious topic. Unlike, is the Easter Bunny of the order of Lagomorpha? You initiated a flame war. I have done everything to stay on topic as I understood it. If I have gone to far off, I apologize to the one who started the topic, only.

You provided the evidence in the third post. This phenomenon, convergent evolution, of the devil happens independently in numerous cultures across time. So how can it be a trick then?

Nations exist. But don't try to study them from space. You can't see them. Individuals can choose not to believe in nations. Those individuals are unlikely to have much impact against a nation though and most likely have to work and live within one. I know in TWI the Adversary was clearly used to promote personal emotionally charged agendas, under some form of the power of positive (and negative) thinking. Those views assigned more control to the individual than they really have in some areas, and less than they really have in others. I don't remember a description of a personality beyond some bad dancing in leotards. I don't know that whether or not the devil has horns, tail and pitchfork matters. Or whether or not it is sentient matters either. But we all try to understand what causes change in life. Many of these are negative and words like devil come up in trying to understand that. Something exists. It needs to be acknowledged to be dealt with. If devil is a bad description of that, is there a better one?

I am not interested in ruining this thread with a side discussion. Start another thread on redefining terms I think is the general retort. I am going to think on your comments concerning personality.

Because one is imagination and the other is not.

Your argument is that someone invented the devil like it's part of some Zeitgeist. As opposed to a naturally occurring inescapable phenomena, described over time as "devil".

Gods arise because we are social creatures who need to work together for survival of the species. A devil would be no different. When too many individuals are unwilling to make most of the small choices, or personal sacrifices, for good, that collection of ideals as an abstraction could easily be called a devil. To say that cannot happen is certainly a trick.

Wanna know another Ohio-ism? Alcoholism.

Aren't Holy Wars theopneustos? Based on the constant path of destruction caused by PFAL, maybe Mike is right.

Does sneeze count as breathe? http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/The_Creation_of_the_Universe

https://visionsandvoices.weebly.com/altered-states-of-consciousness.html

If there were a book on VPW would it really be that compelling? He got drunk a lot and lied to a bunch of kids. (or call it plagiarism) I think that story his been written a thousand times before. The book won't be written due to a lack of uniqueness.

This topic beyond logic. This belongs in Doctrinal. We're talking about God-breathed stuff.

Not to me, no. But if I understand correctly, The Law of Believing is essentially a way of telling God what to do. So Mike likely has come to the conclusion VPW Believed through God. God-Breathed.