Rejoice

Hi Coolchef; Do you think that VP didn't have any direct cause and effect relationship with LCM?

Wow; thanks Goey! that is a wonderful article. It seems that there is no reason for formal "ordination" outside of the traditions of men, correct?

In reading this, what I catch a glimpse of is LCM as a young man, who already answered the call of the Lord in his life. He seemed to want to do the Lord's will [at least in his 20's]. It's very possible that VPW took a very willing young man and poisoned the heck out of his brain, heart, and soul. I'm not excusing what Craig became, but I don't believe he started out to be an evil man. He may have wanted to be right, not because of pride, but because he didn't want to make mistakes. That traight may have started in his own home growing up, but we'll never know.

I never learned much about the Old Testament from VP in my 18+ years with the ministry. I know that JS taught an Old Testament History class, but that was about it. Why did TWI never invest much time in unfolding all the mysteries [and the confusion] in the old testament writings?

I was talking with a friend about requirements for ordination or to be a formal leader of a congregation, and we were discussing the full spectrum of formally recognized higher education, to the mail order variety of pastors. The book of Titus states that elders and deacons must be blameless, the husband of one wife, and whose children believe and are not charged with being wild or disobedient, etc., etc. I remember that TWI ordained men who were divorced. Some had said that since the ordained person's spouse left, they were not held accountable. There were ordained clergy who were the ones who walked away from their marriages, yet they were still ordained. Is there a difference between ordination, elders and deacons? Is there a requirement of not being divorced? What about if you are widowed? :unsure:

Sorta?? Like not exactly?

Rhino asked: What was the story on Craig and Donna getting married, did VP set that up? That's correct. Dr set them up on a "date"; then told Craig he should marry her. That she was strong enough to stand with him in his ministerial life. Craig being the little puppy dog he was to VP went along with the directive. I was around them in their first year of marriage. Absolutely no indication of romance or tenderness or any of the sweet things that transpire between a newly married couple. They looked and acted like mere roommates all along.

I am seeing the HTML tags for the emoticons. Do I need to adjust my settings somehow??? Sorry, I'm coding/setting challenged!

What about rewards in heavan? Are we supposed to work for these after salvation, or is that another example of Performance based Christianity?? :unsure:

Someone recently posted a link to their site, but I can't find it now. Anyone have that link? I'd like to see all the changes.

Do you consider anyone who joins an offshoot of TWI [who continue with some or most of VP's teachings] as returning back?

I was not a drugged-up hippie kid from a bad background when I found TWI. But like Linda Z, something in PFAL grabbed my attention and showed me that God and I could have a personal relationship....with or without a church involvement. That was such an eye openener! I didn't suffer abuse from VP nor any leadership. TWI took 20 years of my life, but when I left it behind, the one thing I didn't leave was knowing that I have a personal relationship with God. As I think back, I think that I really cemented that belief because of the simple believers I met, rather than VP. I understood to keep what was good, and to give what was junk back to TWI. And I've also learned to trust my gut and to know that God is at work all around me. I will never put myself in a box ever again...nor will I do that to my Lord.

Hmm.....in my area there are three churches that I know of that each have a weekly attendance of about 7,000. TWI has about 3,000-4,000 world wide?????????????

Jesus said, "Love God first, Love your neighbor as yourself...on these two hang all the law." So dear Mike, you are free to be yourself as long as you live the law of love. I gave up being in an organization because it gets in the way of these two commands. I simply fellowship with like-hearted brethren.

YIKES, I clicked on the link that dmiller gave so that I could read all about VP's illustrious basketball career. While reading, there were no less than 7 popups advertising for swingers and porn materials!!!! GAWD, that stuff follows him even just by name!!!

I think that all these years of upheaval may have been avoided if Charles had been allowed to marry her long ago. They have been in love and committed to each other longer and HAPPY with each other longer than most couples. I think that Charles went along with all the rules and now, in his senior years he's decided it's time to follow his heart. This marriage is long overdue.

There is a very good book written about the PP Movement. It is titled, "Thus Saith the Lord? by John Bevere. Really puts it in perspective

If plastic surgery improves your appearance and well being...I say go for it! My friend's mother had a "natural" face lift to just ease the tired look and it did wonders for her esteem. Here's a list of celebrities and the treatments taken. Lauren Hutton is in here too. http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/1031/paradox.html

I'm wondering what these gals are going to look like in their 70's, with all the stretched skin??? And, how come guys like Robert Redford are still considered gorgeous and sexy?? His face is so weathered and wrinkled. It must be his self-assured attitude to not buy into the opinions of others that makes him so attractive to so many.

Court and legal fees???? I was wondering how her parents were paying for all these costs? It was stated that her husband burned up a lot of the rehab money trying to disconnect her feeding tube and let her pass. Unless this was a lot of pro-bono work, her parents must be very well off.

Wow...this must be a city tactic. I just got one for my house that I had to replace the whole sidewalk. Now, keep in mind that I don't **own** the sidewalk...the city does. Got a nasty-gram with the title "NOTICE TO REPAIR SIDEWALK WITHIN 30 DAY!" in 26 font!! Otherwise they would fix it themselves, place a lien on the property and charge we 10% plus daily interest to pay them back. I called and told them that I was dealing with it, but couldn't gurantee that I could find a cement contractor whose schedule could get it done in 30 days, but it was being handled. They said, "Ok, we can extend for up to 6 months...we wanted to get your attention and have you call back now." It did work, but it felt like total harrassment. Sounds rather gestapo-ish to me!

Sorry about the "We" statement. I was upset and it was meant to be a collective term regarding our country. The US has made so many compromises on what our forefathers fought to maintain; that life and freedom was sacred. When there is no written declaration , I believe we should err on the side of life. I have a relative who is brain damaged and lives in an institution, who responds slowly and crudely like Terri, yet he does respond. I could see her response in those tapes. The brain is an area that we humans just don't understand, regardless of all our technology and our supposed wisdom. If the parents were willing to go visit everyday for 15 years, what was it to Terri's husband?? Let them have their daughter for what remaining years they have on this earth. The hardest thing for a mother to do is to watch her baby suffer pain and hunger when she knows how to help. It's an instinctual and overwhelming drive to feed them. On the other hand, I believe that if euthanasia is going to be an option, then starvation should NOT be the method. A lot of us flippantly state we wouldn't want to live incapacitated, but when the hour comes, a lot of us would likely change our mind. It happens all the time. Christopher Reeve always said that, and initially wanted his life support removed. But then he changed his mind and fought hard for 10 years, all the while enjoying his family as best he could. He was on more life support than Mrs Schiavo.

It's over. I'm heartsick at what we have done. I guess we've become a right to kill society. Look at these videos and see if she really was "unresponsive". http://www.terrisfight.org/index2.html

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Goodness, if I was his common law wife, I'd be writing everything down NOW! But, what if this was one of his kids, and he could sue for malpractice for a large sum of money, deny their rehab, and then decide he knew what their wishes were because they shared that with daddy... What harm is there in erring on the side of life for Terri? A feeding tube, bathing her, and turning her is not such a big deal. If they want to save some government money by euthanizing someone, lets start with those who have been **sentenced** to death for crimes against mankind. AFter all, they're getting fed, housed, college degrees and law degrees for free, and endless court costs for repeated appeals because after all, they didn't do it---they were framed.