Rejoice

Just remember...they put their pants on the same way we all do. And...you are *their* employer, not the other way around. The best way to find a professional is through a referral. Sometimes Yahoo or Google has reviews written about the individual.

In line with memories of how Craig was installed, I found this online and had to share. Craig's dedication to the cult is in print for all to see. It is an article about how others viewed all of TWI and it's machinations; On Sunday, Jan. 25, 1981 The President's Newsletter outlines Wierwille's planned retirement for Oct. 3, 1982 with the Rev. L. Craig Martindale as president-elect. In his acceptance address, Martindale said, "I was Associate Pastor and Youth Minister at one of the great Southern Baptist churches in the Southwest and was definitely one of the bright and rising stars of the denomination ... yet deep in my heart, it wasn't just being someone with a position and prestige that motivated me. I wanted to do something for God." It is amazing all that he accomplished for God...! http://www.timbullard.com/TheWay.htm

JAL was trained by TWI---and very well! He uses the same phrases to discredit any honest question. He likes you as long as you 'high-five' his opinion. JS was trained by TWI too. His mode is to get huffy and defensive with a superior aire... I like your plan of action!

Well said Geisha! Thanks!

Ham, it is odd that people think in such a vacuum when they say that someone has been nice 'to them'---therefore they are nice people! Everyone is nice at times to a few for gosh sakes! Well, we had Rosie the Riverter---why not Rosie the Sanitizer. She can carry a plunger!

This is also CES/STF John S style---once he's "researched" and taught it, it is not open for question. He is a second-generation Wierwillian, just like Rosie and Donna... must come with the territory.

WOW...I've never been able to put my gut feelings into such clear statments. So, so TRUE!!

I have had first hand conversations with the man, questioning what he's teaching/writing for clarification. He refuses to consider any discussion beyond stating he is absolutley correct. When questioned, one can see his eyes glaze over, and his body stiffen in a defensive posture. A researching ministry must be an open one. He can make mistakes like anyone, but he bristles at the thought. Wishing him well, is one thing, but you should wish everyone well. Don't swap out VPW adulation for JS adulation---it is the same trap. NO ONE is above reproach. That organization has turned into just that...and "Organization"

Through the whole two weeks of the A.C.---I kept waiting for it to START! It was nothing more than a platform for egomaniacs to have a dedicated audience.

This bears REPEATING!!

If TWI was a little puddle, what does that make all the offshoots? A small drip?

John Schoenheit

Do you know if he completed a full course of study, a.k.a. Bachelor's degree, or did he just take a few courses?

I checked the FB link. Today, so much of these kinds of postings become so tedious to read and re-read anymore. There seems to be no natural, ordinary conversation; rather just 'religious' pious statements to make people sound spiritually connected. "It's not what you say...it is what you do."

"Talking to a wall"---you probably were because his agenda is to recreate TWI by 'keeping the good but spit out the bones'! If they want a 501-c3 non profit organization, start a children's home in the example of George Mueller and trust God for resources rather than ask supporters for money. Or individually go serve the poor right in your own neighborhood by adopting a needy family and provide whatever help they need for a year at a time; then do the same for another. Oh yeah...and don't tell anyone...just do. Ah...I forgot...there is no outward, shout-from-the-rooftops praise in that.

Socks; To my knowledge, everything you said is true. JS is relied upon as the ‘premier’ in-resident scholar, and none of them have acquired any formal seminary training. If they did, they would have first-hand understanding [at the very least] of that which they criticize as being wrong. They say they follow and live Jesus’ example, but as I read and understand...Jesus came to end 'organized' religion. It got in the way of a personal walk with God because people looked to the elders for insight. God wants a personal familial relationship with each of us. Beyond teaching people that "God is Love, have faith and trust in Him, believe in Jesus and his teachings", the rest should be a spiritual, individual journey. I don't remember Jesus worrying about figures of speech in the Tablets, nor did he teach to go out and build formal groups. He just said to fellowship with the brethren---not create something with classes and camps and whatever. But here they are with a CEO, a President, and a Board of Directors for gosh sakes! Is that the example of a personal family?? As I watch, STF has become extremely impersonal with their pontificating videos on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter...etc. It is very easy to say, “Thus saith the Lord when you are a self-appointed group with no accountability beyond themselves. They also have no limited tenure, just like TWI. They say they live Jesus' example; well he was only required for three years. By example, it seems their time in 'office' is long overdrawn. They run STFI exactly like a worldly corporation, with lifetime leadership, monetary benefits, and a corporate structure where the top people are totally protected from the everyday supporter.

Taking something out of context is also a tactic of manipulators who don't really care to understand. They just like to confront... It sure gets old...

When they were CES, they had an open forums discussion page. When the questions became too pointed, they shut it down. John S is the only original person left in the group, and he continues this 'pick-and-choose' mentality. I think it is called CENSURESHIP, which is part of all damaging organizations; especially cults! I have a close family member who is with them, and their blindness is 'blinding'!

In 2009, LifeVantage was sued by Utah-based Zrii LLC, a marketer of nutritional fruit drinks endorsed by Deepak Chopra, based on allegations that LifeVantage had conspired with former Zrii executives My friends became Zrii distributors. They invited me to a meeting to learn about purchasing and/or becoming a distributor. However, the only way to purchase the product was to sign up to be a distributor---at the $250, $500, $1000, or $1500 level. They teach that the higher level you sign up, the more commission you make when you get others under your sales force. I couldn't believe how many people signed up!! When I told them I couldn't possibly do so until I tried the product, they said they don't actually keep inventory to sell, but by becoming a distributor, I would get it at a discount. Bunch of mumbo-jumbo! I have yet to see an MLM company turn back to biblical principles. If you are considering the Protandim product Kit, I just want you to be VERY careful...wise as serpents...harmless as doves.

It is one of many multi-level marketing companies. MLM does not use biblical principles in the business setup and truly 'muzzles the ox' in the broad picture. On September 15, 2011, LifeVantage entered into an agreement with entertainer Donny Osmond to act as a spokesperson for the company’s products. The 2-year contract stipulates that the company will pay Osmond for various promotional appearances and video recordings and commissions for sales of LifeVantage products.[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protandim

Pretty much; VPW told us that he had a direct connection to God...inferring that we did not, because God would teach 'him' what had not been known since the first century.

You joined [like the rest of us] to serve our God, and TWI determined this was enough to throw you out? Those doing so were taught this by VP, so I'm curious why you so vigorously defend him still?

WW---in reading your linked page, I saw this statement by LCM: "Temperance is self-control. That's the ninth one--finality, complete completeness, 3 x 3. The result of all this is self-control in all phases of life. The body holds the same relationship to reason as reason does to the spirit. That's what it means to go in and 'possess the land'--manage it, control it, utilize it for what it's there for. The ninth fruit of the spirit--makes tremendous depth of sense here." The underlined phrase---that's how he defines Temperance?? Temperance is to 'possess the land'?? He sounds completely insane...

does anyone know WHAT drugs were used, and where did he get them??? Or from whom???