Eyesopen

Oh I see how it is...invite me to a threesome.... Don't strain yourself waiting, I don't think the Oakie has enough Euros to be traveling anywhere. Edited cuz I stil can't speel!

Thanks Bumpy! That was a good article. I have often wondered when the Germans would acknowledge this little piece of their history. Well done.

That must have just gotten posted recently as they told me it would be another three weeks. Good to see tho.

Okay....if you say so, it certainly didn't read that way. Exactly! Now all you have to do is remember the topic. And this is where I disagree. What you claim is "clearly written" I found to be muddy. That's why I started my little quest to begin with. Contrary to what you might think I did not go into it with a preset conclusion only to work towards that same conclusion (that's not honest). I went at it as if I had no clue and perhaps I still dont. But I stand by what I have learned myself from my own study and not by what someone else has told me that it says. I am truly done with that type of lifestyle. No more "never look outside the Word for answers" No more Way brain for me. Nice chatting with you also Jen-o I'm sure you mean "lulu" since Amazon has yet to get my book on its pages. But that will be soon. If you want to hear my credentials that's fine but would you believe them if they were stated? The bottom line is that I do not simply post my entire book, not because I am trying to sell it, but because it really is far too much to post. What I find interesting is that another author also announced their book on GS recently and provided links so that those who were interested might purchase it. She then made available some exerpts from the book and lo and behold everyone was just fine with that. I do not recall hearing (or rather) reading anyone who said that she was "dodging" "copping out" or being "evasive" simply because she wanted to sell her book. Look if someone here wants to make this thread about me or my book that's fine. But understand that I am not playing with you. I stated my opinion and as requested I stated the reason behind my opinion. That is all. I'm done. Oh and...God Bless us Everyone!!!

You may have been the only one to actually "say" those things but many posts alluded to them. I am not surprised that you responded to my post, I'm surprised that you took it personally. Had I wanted to make it personal I would have done what I am doing now and directly addressing you or better yet I would have PMed you. As for the "disagreement" believe it or not this board is not the only place that these sentiments are voiced. I made a blanket statement that you very kindly quoted above. I'm simply stating my opinion just as everyone else here is doing. Dont take my word for it I got that information from the various letters and documents stored right here on GS. And as I said I was just using it for reference. If you werent coming from that "mindset" then you did a good impersonation (at least from what I remember from what I read) but I'll 'take your word for it' and apologize for the apparent misunderstanding. Actually Jen-o and Rhino I have no special information, I simply did what I was taught to do...I studied. Perhaps if you would for example take that verse in Leviticus (18:22) that everyone likes so much and simply read from the beginning of the chapter. See what the context is and then do some research on what God is referring to...yup that means that you actually have to put the Bible down and read some history. Then return to that verse with a renewed and clearer understanding. It is talking about an idolotrous ritual that was performed by both the Canaanites (where Isreal was going) and the Egyptians (where they came out of) The topic of the chapter is clearly idolotry as in verses 2, 4, 5, and 6 God has to remind them that He is their God and that they need to be doing what He says. Again in chapter 20 (where the other verse is) the topic is idolotry and the referrence is a ritual used in idol worship. He tells them not to go whoring after Molech (King idol). Really this is not rocket science...But there is much more that I have taken 40 pages in my book to clearly lay out the history and the time lines and I refuse to take up all of the space here to explain it all to you. If you don't want to read what I have already researched, if for nothing more than a different understanding then don't...I really dont care. But please stop assuming that I have no formal education in Biblical Research. Just because I dont parade my credentials under everyone's nose does not mean that I do not have them. Simply put, I have found no where in the Bible that actually addresses homosexuality as a lifestyle or an orientation. The 10 verses used to prove the sin nature of homosexuality with the exception of one do not even touch on the subject. All I did was some honest research and then I wrote it all down to share with others. It takes up a lot of space. So no I will not reproduce it here and if some think that is a cop out...well that is your opinion. So is that simple enough? And just for the record I would love for you to tell any one of my professors that they need to "briefly and succinctly" state their views on any given topic that they have spent years researching.

Thanks Rocky, I dont know about warm fuzzies but it did bring back some fond memories of good friends.

Of those that believe in God, regardless of the denomination, I think that you will find that the vast majority think that God is everywhere or everything or simply in everything. Not many religions today still hold God in a physical form and I think fewer still look to pin the tail on Him so to speak. But that is just my opinion.

Wow Jen-o! Let me see if I can address your concerns. I had already left TWI when the homo purge went on...where as I noticed in another thread that you were there at that time, {Forgive me for crossing threads folks this is only used as a reference and nothing more also for reference the homo purge started sometime in the early 90's and ended when LCM left}You (Jeno-o) may not have partook of the teaching but you were there, I was not nor did I address it in my post. I never even suggested that you or anyone else was 'ranting or raving' about anything. Neither did I extrapolate anything, nor did I even mention your post (any of them) in fact I did not address you at all. As far as labeling myself as 'narrow minded' frankly I was when I was in TWI. Anything that I was taught was gospel for quite some time. Including the 'homo' thing for a time. But eventually I woke up and began to think and study for myself. I'm sure that you would like to know how or the reasons why I disagree with the scriptures used to prove the sin nature of homosexuality but I will not do that here, for three reasons; 1 this is the "Open" forum not the "Doctrinal" forum and 2. The amount of research that was done on these scriptures would take up way too much space and last but not least, this thread is about homosexual marriage which by the way I did address in my original post. Basically Jen-o I was neither talking to you nor about you and I fail to see why you have taken my post personally.

I for one am happy that in a country that claimes to 'fight' for the freedoms of all people and where in its foundational written documents it clearly states "all men are created equal" that a certain amount of freedom is finally being afforded to a group of people to whom it has been denied. Some would say that those people still had the 'freedom' to love whomever they wished and only denied the term 'marriage'. I would catagorically disagree with this assessment. This country is the greatest country in the world of that I have no doubt. However many of the laws of this country can find their basis in the moral value system of the ruling order. Those moral values were formed by religion. And frankly I find some of their moral values just as repulsive as I find some of the Moslem moral values. On this issue of homosexuality I whole heartedly disagree with the biblical interpretation that says God hates homosexuality. Just as most of us, while in TWI I spoke out against homosexuality and used those same tired verses to justify my narrowmindedness. Then a few years ago I was once again asked to show where it says in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin. I returned to those same verses...and we all fell flat. After much study and personal growth I have changed my views. I dont know if God blesses Cali more or less or or just keeps score, but I for one give the Judges a kudos for doing their job despite public opposition. If the population of Cali wants to overturn the decision they are going to need to approach it legally, with a constitutional amendment. Until that happens I hope a million people get in there and get themselves married.

Kudos to both of you, Paw and RD! The interview was done very well and the quality is very good. The subject was of course, something that had to be said. I love your hearts! Thank you both for sharing that with us. I like many others have mixed feelings about "the rest of the story". It needs to be known but I really wish that there had been no 'story' to tell, at least of that nature. Love you both

Dot, Your words bring back so many memories for me, and with those memories come a smile and a tear. It gets easier, most of the time anyway. There are times however... You are both in my prayers.

I just have to chime in here, as I have been alone since 2001. That year was very traumatic for me, but to keep it in context I will only mention that I lost my mom and I also got a divorce. Although my breakup was not as traumatic as yours...but my marriage was... In the end my ex had found another sweetie and decided that I simply needed to go away. So I did...it was very amiable for the most part. At first I found the house to be both peaceful and empty. It was a strange mix of feelings. Like you I did not want to even attempt another relationship so that I could avoid the pain that accompanies it, not to mention the vast amounts of work necessary to keep a relationship going and healthy. I was just exhausted and wanted to rest. But while I was resting I found that I had vast amounts of time that I could now fill with whatever I wanted to do. My time was filled at first with all of the tv that I had missed, eventually I moved on to more productive and satisfying pursuits. I remembered that I had once enjoyed studying, and drawing, and making little things out of wood like jewelry boxes and such. I have found recently that doing things on the computer can also be rewarding to an extent and that I have a knack for writing. Do I want another relationship at this point? I dont know, I am no longer as opposed to it as I once was but I am also in my own groove now and rather enjoy my life as it is. Will I never have another? Once again I dont know. If it happens that will be ok, but if it doesnt that would be ok as well. I have come to realize that not everyone needs or even really wants a relationship like that at this stage of our lives. My mother was one that really needed the relationship and after daddy died she hung on for many years but when it came time to fight for her life or lose it...well she just didnt see any reason to stick around. Me on the other hand do not feel that I need any thing that resembles a perminant relationship. I can take it or leave it and I find that I enjoy the simplicity that my life has now. I hope that helps you in some small way.

Publishing with Lulu or Amazon is free. Things have come a long way in just the past year.

I published my own which is really easy and can be free. I am switching to Amazon soon but am presently at Lulu. Lulu has more publishing options and more formats and the author has more control over the book, but Amazon has a bigger marketplace and more connections. I am going to try and use both but if I cannot then I will switch to Amazon for this book and go to lulu for other books. You are right it is difficult to get picked up and if you do you lose control over your work. I did not even try. I kind of wanted to keep creative control over such a sensitive subject. If you would like some help let me know, I'm becoming quite the expert...

Hey Twinky! Sales are going along steadily. Marketing a book is tricky business. I have the pics from the BBQ that were taken by everyone. There was some great pics of everyone. Are we gonna see you this year? I already have the time off of work and am purchasing the plane tickets soon.

Your absolutely right DMIller, I have read litterally hundreds of books or parts of books that I did not agree with not to mention even more articles from various newspapers, magazines etc that I didnt agree with. And then there are the conversations that I've had...even some here on this board that I disagreed with someone...but I still learned something from each and every one of these things. Maybe I didnt learn what I wanted to or hoped to but I learned something, even if it was just that I didnt agree with the person. My father taught me that the day that we stop learning things is the day that we die. I personally like to live hence I try to learn as much as I can while I am here. So some folks wont agree with my stance on homosexuality..ok that just means that I dont agree with theirs either. So does that mean that we cannot learn something from each other? I sure hope not. You know I have always believed that Jesus was the son of God and not God himself even before twi. One of my best friends believes otherwise but we still are friends and we still learn from each other and yes we still have discussions on that subject. But we respect and love each other enough to allow the other person to have their own beliefs. I guess I just realize that I dont know everything and that everyone else does have something to teach me.

Always nice to have you here Twinky!

So does that mean I'm an artist? :blink: I dont think Donatelo has anything to worry about. Seriously, CMan thanks for your kind words and your encouragement. I would love to read what you have written...let me know when you publish it!

For some reason they showed the video footage on tv the morning after it happened. Maybe it was just really early in the morning but it was quite the site seeing that cow kind of half standing in the back seat of that car. The poor thing looked completely bewildered. I've never had a problem with cows, being the city kid that I am but the chickens on grandpa's farm and then the ones on my sister's farm...oooh how I really hate live chickens! They are much better rottiserie style or fried.

That's a big deal for me now days too! Thanks George, I appreciate it very much.

Thanks Dot! I finished that book as well (the LEAD one that is). It is going to be published early next year. I have never studied the suicide angle, but it has always made me wonder as well. Ah yes, but according to Timothy it's good for other things and as I recall God highly recommends studying to understand...

Hi Phil, Welcome to the Spot. I also wish you and your girlfriend well. TWI doctrine...hmmm....there were 4 crucified with Jesus not two...the Old Testament is not worth reading as it pertains to a different administration...ditto the last comment for Revelations. Woman are inferior spiritually and must be controlled. Children are brought up in the nurture of the Lord by belittling them and beating them when they squirm during a two hour fellowship. The word of your twig coordinator or any other coordinator is tantamount to God's holy word and must be obeyed without question. That's all I care to think about or remember right now. Why I left...I was dismissed from the Way Corps because I questioned leadership. Then I was given the stewardship of an Area (half of a state). Later I walked away because TWI was getting worse about teaching innacuracies. A couple years later my mother was kicked out because she refused to stop talking to me. She was kicked out by my brother. Those that tell you about Mark and Avoid and about being kicked out arent stretching the truth. TWI is a very controlling cult. Beware! That's the long and short of it for me anyway. I really do wish you and your girlfriend all the luck in the world.

You know it's uncanny and just a bit...no, a lot...unnerving that even though it has been over 20 years and I am reading the words on a computer screen, his voice still resonates in my head when I read them. It doesn't matter which class it is or which SNS or whatever his voice and Loy's voice seem to haunt me. :blink: I guess you never really do get that spunge clean. Oh well...

I have considered it Danny but I have two full excerpts already connected to my actual store front. I think it would be redundant a bit, but I will put the table of contents on my website. That's a good idea...I will consider puting an excerpt on my website as well. Thanks for your support and ideas! Teresa Yes it is okay. God Bless you too!

BTW for those that were having some trouble with my website...I have removed the paragraph and done some other updating. It should be clearer and less abrasive now. Thanks for the feedback.