Eyesopen

Sounds a bit schizophrenic to me - the whole thing does. One minute he is one person, walking with the renewed mind and In Christ, the next he is raping someone.

Someone posted that they had known VP and they related a story about him. Something about them sitting and have a normal conversation, talking, laughing what have you...then some corps person walks past and VP gets up and screams in their face dressing them down so to speak. When the corps person leaves VP sits back down and says something to the effect of "I've got to teach these kids the right way" or something like that. Then returned to a normal conversation. The person that related this story got the impression that it was all just an act. VP's "spiritual" walk in Christ, his love for the believers...all of it just an act. (Sorry for my fragmented memory here...just cant remember which thread it was on, hope I got the gist right)

I didn't know him well enough to make such a determination. Neither am I a phychiatrist or phycotherapist (sp?) But could a schizo do this? Or is this a sign of schizo? It almost, and I do mean almost sounds like multiple personality disorder, but...I've never met one of those that could switch so smoothly, take that back, I did HEAR one once but the two personalities sounded different. So I am reluctant to attribute that to VP. He displayed two personalities that were such polar opposites...?

Mind you I am NOT trying to make excuses for his behavior...just trying to figure out WTF. It just keeps running in my head, on one side he is the loving, caring man that loved the household, and on the other side is the motocoach. Then there is Mrs. W saying "He was a mean mean man"

Are there any psych majors in the house? Isn't there a disorder that has something to do with sadistic behavior?

OR...Was he just a really good Used car salesman?

Things that make you go...Hmmmm?

Just thinking.

love ya'll

p.s. Sorry Rocky, why is it that I am always asking questions that would potentially derail your thead? Hmmm? I love you!!

This is some really interesting and helpful information. Thanks for taking the time to post it all.

Hahahahahahahaha

That was sweet WD!

Let him spend hours on hard seats enduring his own tirades while the spittle lands on him in the first row.

You actually sat in the first row? Wow! I bow before your superior tolerance!

I think he should come back as a sexy svelt guy that gets imprisoned for life without on a charge he didn't commit and his roommate "Bubba" REALLY likes him.

Over and over again, God told Israel not to intermarry with "strangers".

Yet, if you trace the lineage of Jesus, you will find that there were a number of "strangers" in his geneology.

Is there a lesson to be learned from that?

I'm certain that there are several good reasons why God did this, or why it was "allowed" to happen (depending on you school of thought) and consequently there is probably a "lesson" in the mix.

My first thought inclination is that this mixed blood line makes that half of Jesus that was human more human. I mean if his bloodline had been pure as the driven snow all the way back to Abraham then perhaps the fact that although he was tempted in all things like as we are and yet did not sin, might not have had as much significance. His human half was flawed on a blood level and yet he still did not sin. It's kind of akin to an American heinze 57 mutt gutter kid being elected President. No body thought he should be there, no one thought he was good enough, but yet there he was...and he sinned not.

Another thought, by having the blood of so many strangers in his veins doesn't that kind of make him a personal real live representative of all those nations? Perhaps redeming them? An Ammonite and a Moabite is forever exluded from Isreal but not the family of God? A subtle message perhaps?

Just thinking.

love ya

I have not heard that particular story, but I have heard many like it. But it is autism, not Downs syndrome, that you are referring to. Downs syndrome is a genetic disorder, it is one that can be predicted in the womb. Autism MAY also be a genetic disorder, but that is still a theory. Another theory is that the mercury used as a preservative in the vaccinations causes autism. I don't think that theory has been proven either.

Your right! I knew something wasn't quite right about that part. But I was hoping that I would see it again. If nothing else the court case will be interesting. I mean how do you prove something like that? It's not like you can take 100 kids, inject them and see what happens. Somehow I don't think a test done with rats will sway the Judge.

Thanks for the correction Abi.

love ya sis

Any thoughts?

Ooooo you are soooo bad! Bad little squirrel! Here's a nut...get out of the kitchen and let me think a minute. This requires some intense thought, after all I wouldn't want to wish him on any other species, even slugs deserve better than that.

Ya'll have now brought up a current issue and I am going to risk derailing this thread yet again to ask if anyone else has seen this news report.

I think it was last monday I was watching an early morning news show, around 0530 am. There was a short blurb (that I have not heard again) about a new class action law suit that is to hit the courts sometime in June. Some parents and scientists have found a correlation between your basic childhood innoculations and Downs syndome and/or Add (did I get that right?) Attention Deficite Disorder.

Apparently some parents claim that they took their baby who was a "perfectly normal intelligent child" to get innoculated and walked out with a downs baby. After that came out other parents have come forward with similar stories.

So now it's all going to court. You're comments concerning medication caused me to remember this little news article. Anyone else hear it?

BTW John I agree with most of what you said about Social Workers. I truly understand what they must do and how they must do it. So I can empathize (been there done that won't do it again) with their attitudes at times. But you are right in saying that some are given more power (authority?) than they should have. They don't know how to temper their responses because frankly they don't know how to read people. On the other side of the coin some Social Workers are some of the nicest most helpful people you will ever have the pleasure of knowing. Sometimes its just the luck of the draw. It sounds like your draw was for sh!t.

It sounds like we are beginning to have a dialog here on this thread...ahh the pleasures of a family get together. Somebody get great aunt Prudence a refill on her sherry so she'll stop screaming at the cat!

Just saying...I love you guys and gals...Oh Yea! Almost forgot. Happy Easter!! He is Risen!!

Edited 'cause I forgot my smiley face guys.

Received in an email today, and hope you have a love-ly Easter: (He arose)

Kit, Thanks.

Mostly we have food fights, so jump righ in.

OMG! I missed a food fight? Oh rats! I really hate missing things...lost my brain last week and I'm still looking for parts of it.

Hey Mr. Man! Welcome to the best place for grease spots in the world. Here it is always midnight so you are always welcome.

If you ever need anything or whatever feel free to send me a cyber jingle. I think I've figured out how to use those things? :P

BTW, I do bite but I promise you'll like it.

Hey call it what you want....lol but I don`t do no steenkin blue forms no more...lol

Hehehehehehehehehe

Eves...don`t be rediclous...of COURSE I still adore you...lol if you ever STOP contributing to these threads ...THEN I will hafta get mad...lol

Thanks girl.

Contributing? Hmmm that aint like ABS is it? Just kidding!

Great post, Eyes Open. You make a number of excellent points. You go, girl!!!!

Thanks Jean! 'Preciate that.

Hey Rascal, I am going to totally derail this thread again, sorry I have been getting some questions via email and thought that I would share the responses here, just in case others were wondering.

I absolutely believe that God helped me to be exactly where I needed to be. I still believe that God led most of us to TWI. Certainly not to be used or abused! But for some of the message that was taught, such as learning how to read the Bible, for most people that was a real eye opener. For so long the churches held the patent on Bible interpretation. But here comes some crazy hippy cult movement that teaches it to just anyone! Despite all the crap he really did help pop the bubble on the church monopoly kind of like Martin Luther did many years before. I'm not comparing them, although there are some pretty scary comparisons (not good ones either) but the sheer volume of people spouting the same thing did have an impact. Some of the interpretations were whacked but his admonition of "make it your own" was true. If he had done that perhaps none of the abuse would have happened. Perhaps he would have changed the wrong teachings, but he was not meek, he was proud. (among many other things)

Were it not for TWI I would not be where I am today. Good and Bad, I choose to focus on the good and learn from the bad. I know that God did not intend for me or anyone else to be used or abused in any way by anyone associated with TWI. It happened, perhaps it was avoidable perhaps it wasn't I just don't know. But I do know that there is more than one way to deal with pain and injury. You can let it keep hurting you or you can find a way to heal the wound and learn from it. I am still learning and I have found that some wounds aren't quite as healed as I had thought and I have found some wounds that I didn't know I had, but they will all heal.

Our experience, our cult was unique in so many ways. Only those that have been there can understand it. At my job sometimes we literally have hours to just talk. Sometimes the past comes up. When I try to explain TWI they just nod at me like some surreal bobble head. So I find myself editing, changing and skipping quite a bit. For instance the Corps becomes College or Seminary, WOW becomes Missionary or I just moved and the ROA becomes a camping trip with lots of friends. They won't understand so why try to explain?

When I posted my little adventure for everyone to read I was not looking for nor did I expect any sympathy, yet I received it. I just needed to be able to tell my story without being interrupted with questions, like what's WOW? (By the time you get done explaining it, they still don't understand and you couldn't care less about finishing the story.) Here I told the story, I didn't get interrupted, I didn't get mocked, accused, told I was possessed or mistaken, I didn't get blamed or shamed. You all listened with compassion, understanding and respect. Because of your actions and inactions I was able to work through it my own way and hence cleanse the wound so that it can now heal.

Here on this board we have a piece of a long lost household, separated by space as we are but brought together by chance or design here in cyberspace. We are still a family, just a bedraggled one. We didn't need no stinkin' Romans to persecute us heck no, we did that to ourselves! It's sad really. We have as individuals dragged our beaten and bloody carcasses to this site, not to rehash old pain, or to crucify others on a verbal cross but to share, to understand, to forgive others and ourselves so that we as individuals and as a family can heal and move forward. Then we can come together once again as a family and share with one another as we once did when we were still young and innocent.

So to you my brothers and sisters I give to you all my undying appreciation and love. I give a special thanks to Pawtucket for giving us a little cyberhouse where we may all gather once again. (This, by the way is far more comfortable than a soggy field in Ohio, or any other state for that matter.)

I throw out to you all an invitation to contact me anytime if you have any questions or concerns or just want to chat. (Please be aware that I am "old" in a manner of speaking so all of this fancy 'puter stuff confuses me sometimes, if you don't believe me just ask anyone that was in chat last night. I still don't know how to say goodnight without closing out of the internet) So don't expect me to understand any fancy shmancy terms.

Now that I am pulling myself out of my self imposed isolation perhaps I will try to see who is still alive in my fair little city.

Oh and never fear I have many more adventures lurking in my gray matter.

I think I derailed this thread rather neatly. Whatcha think Rascal? Still love me? :unsure:

I was always partial to the Old Rugged Cross.

I had always felt sorry for johniam's wife, but now I see it was totally unnecessary as he married a female version of himself. God help the rest of their family.

Thank you so much I nearly choked on my Pizza!

Eyesopen, it must be my high squeaky voice..

Between that and your absolutely adorable expression...I just want to pinch your cute little furry cheeks! :P Is that sexual harrassment? If it is how did I score?

sorry

This would be fun if we could all just have a big party, dance and celebrate in general.

All kidding aside it really would be wonderful if we all could really get together and just have a huge party. Just to celebrate our lives, life itself and most certainly our risen Lord and thank God for inviting us into His family. It really would be a hoot! As long as it wasn't in Ohio...sorry folks.

But for now I guess we'll just have to say Thanks to Paw for making and maintaining this here site that we all can meet up in cyberspace. And anyone can join me, Rainbow and Rhino for a beer (and Kathy she always shows up a bit late for these things but she gets there).

I truely am grateful for all of your lives, Have a beautiful Easter celebration!!

I dunno. I took this statement like, they have fewer marbles in their corner..

I dont know what it is but somehow that just sounds funnier when I hear it coming out of a squirrel!

I hope Everyone gets there cadbury eggs and ham and beer, or lamb feast, or whatever is their delight. I also hope this holiday is time of loving rememberances with family and friends!

God Bless You All, I Love You RG

Eye's honey, the bunny comes in a basket....and I think that someone is always checking to see whose been naughty or nice...it is probably just one more job that the wonderful Mods here do...when they are not checking for trolls and other reprobates. If I am wrong about any of this ask Satori or T-Bone...they have a really good handle on these things...they really know how to discern most myths!

The bunny comes in a basket...good to know. ;)

Family and Friends? Uh Oh, I knew I forgot something...I was at the store bought the ham and beer and eggs (had to go back twice as people looked like they needed a good egging ) But I forgot the family...hmmm...they dont come means more beer for me :D ....they dont come I gotta cook :o ...hmmm...oh ok I guess I'll let them come!

Now did I get a bunny basket? Maybe I could put T-Bone in a basket? :P Nope wouldn't want to hold up the troll or reprobate hunt.

Can I just come to the Ho down and forget all of this?

OMG!!!! The Bunny's coming!! Does he come down the chiminy? (I better lock up the cats) Where's my Cadbury eggs? Who's cooking the ham? Are we allowed to have a beer? I forget.

Oh well everyone have a safe and happy Easter, however you celebrate it.

I love ya'll sis's and bro's alike!

Edited 'cause I forgot the jumpy guys.

Wow – is that eerie or what? I can still hear that oddball phrase “hows come” in ol’ VPW’s voice. But that’s ingredients for a whole new thread: Does the grammar of TWI need to be good? …or should I use “gooder” – oh geez – I still need deliverance!

You know I was thinking about this very thing just yesterday. Why is it that even though we are "out" and about now when we get together even here in cyberspace the old habits and words and "Way" phrases start nagging at the edge of my brain as if they are caged animals nawing on the bars trying to escape into my mouth and onto the page? :huh: Wow that was a long sentence...sorry. But does this happen to any of you? Maybe for another thread?

Edited 'cause I can't spell at this time of the morning...ah heck I can't spell worth dange!

eyes-

My heart bleeds for you. Those pieces of crap

Indeed! And that is insulting to the crap! But it's hard to get a better description.

I love you sis!

Thanks everyone! It's funny I have never told that story like that. I told a watered down one once, but I "minimized" the "event". I never told my parents who were also in TWI. They were so proud of their daughter in the Corps. Then I came home early, didn't finish and wouldn't tell them why. They knew I was angry...everyone knew I was angry. I cut all my hair off. I stopped wearing pretty girl clothes. I stopped being nice to anyone I hadn't known most of my life. I stopped being daddies little girl, because she was weak and vulnerable. I stopped being me.

I don't blame anyone for that. After all some good came of it. I left TWI. Oh I hovered close by to keep an eye on my parents and when my father fell asleep I held the eulogy. No-one from TWI came. I stopped any association with them when they kicked mom out of twig because she would not disown me. (She told me that it was all her children, but I knew it was me they wanted to isolate) When my mom fell asleep eleven years later we had Bill Schly run the eulogy. I just couldn't do this one. Lots of ex-TWI came.

After that I decided I might try to stop being so angry. So I googled, that was 2001. The year of major change in my life. I read somewhere, I think it was here or Way Dale, don't remember that LCM was out something in my heart just let go. I cried nearly as hard as when mom passed, because I was free. God had kept his promise! or Karma had caught up...whatever! It didn't matter how, or the details, it only mattered that he had lost everything he held dear, just like I thought I did that interum year out WOW. I didn't do anything to him at all, but it happened all the same.

It was not until that moment with me sitting alone in front of my computer that I realized just how angry I was at LCM for not protecting me, like he had promised as an ordained minister and final word on the Corps. He had thrown me to the wolves and I had gotten chewed up. I remember asking him to interveen, but he wouldn't. At the time I was too depressed to care what he said anymore. I never realized how angry it had made me.

But I still don't blame him. I don't blame anyone...there is no profit to God in doing so. But I had changed.

Writing this I realize that my parents raised a very intelligent naive girl. They sent her to ROA '82 to go out WOW for the first time. I had a great time with two great guys and a lovely little 12th corps girl who's boyfriend had been sent to Reno, near my parents. It made for some wonderful phone calls. Time passed...I went into the corps and when I went home in July '87 the little girl was no longer naive she was in fact quite nearly dead. How my parents must have cried to see the anger etched in my face. I wish I had told them everything.

Throughout all of this and many more "grand" adventures I have learned how to forgive others for their trespasses, and here in this thread I have learned how not to make excuses for them while I am forgiving them.

Anyway, Rascal, lady you are a doll! Once again thanks for starting this thread, sorry if I derailed it yet again.

Sunesis, Your heart is as gentle and warm as a morning sun.

Word Wolf, You always have the right knowledge for the right moment. Kinda like a big brother.

And Johniam, When I wrote that post I nearly didn't send it. I didn't know what to expect from other posters since I really did go off topic, and now I did it again. But I really didn't expect what you wrote. When crap started to fly I turned towards God as my parents had taught me. My first thought (no inference intended) was to go to Thessalonians because it was the first written and hence, in my thinking would be the epistles most likely to give comfort to the young Christian. I was not wrong. The hope is for everyday maintenance of the renewed mind. Without the hope there is no goal to aspire to attain. The hope is like a mega bright light bulb, without it you easily get lost in the dark. Anyway I don't always agree with what you say, most of the time you're pretty rude to lots of people, but sometimes you toss out a gem. God loves ya bro.

And I love all of you and everyone else who has taken the time to come to GS. Having wallowed in my anger and mistrust for so long I had forgotten that the household of God has lots of love in it, and his children love to share it.

IMHO there is something here that just doesn't feel right. I dont know if the word I'm about to use is quite right - it may be too harsh. There is a voyeuristic tone to this thread.

I don't know if that's the right word or not Dooj, but it's a good one. I'm with you something just don't smell right about this thread. It "feels" wrong, almost like its a setup.

He's not repentant, that is obvious. He calls a child "sexually aggressive" what a load of crap! Then that line about only fondling a 9 year old. WTFO? No...this is bait.

He said all he was supposed to say, again WTFO? The word I have a problem with here is the word "supposed". Like he had a script, or a list of items that needed to be checked off. Something don't smell right.

And by the way, Kathy, Ex and Abi, don't you dare not for one stinking little second feel sorry for this man! You are all beautiful wonderful women of God that have been horribly wronged, dont you have sympathy for a predator, I don't care how repentant he is, you keep your emotional distance! I will not stand by silent and let you feel anything like that for him if I can help it. I just won't! I care too much for my sisters in Christ. Even though I dont even know you very well, it doesn't matter!

Don't get me wrong, wish him well all you want. Thank God he is trying to fix himself, which by the way they dont ever fix themselves they just control the "urges". Pray for his recovery (or control) but do not sympathize, please.

I'm sorry if I over step any boundries here, but...I have known too many men just like him, and I know that just by his words, he aint right, not by a long shot. This is a set up if I ever saw one. So those of you who are emotionally vulnerable I suggest you please leave this thread.

Sunesis, my heart goes out to you. I never personally experienced any of the sexually perverted side of VP. Thank God. But unfortunately you did as well as many more others. I litterally found out about all of this sexual abuse only in the last year or so. Basically since I started reading the stuff here on GS and some of the links.

This thread is helping me put a lot of loose pieces together to make a complete picture. So far I have recognized a lot of little signs or attitudes and most importantly I realize now when I was tested to see if I would or could be part of the inner circle. I failed. They thought that they could use my sister's profession against me, (she was a prostitute) but I was raised in Nevada where it is a profession. So I had no phobias or bad feelings about it. It just wasn't for me. They did not count on that I guess. Then they tried to tempt me with a guy I once had a crush on...that too failed, because I actually meant the oath I took as a WOW.

I guess what I am trying to say is they tried to take advantage of everyone just like Rascal said. And you are so brave and strong to be able to tell your story on the net like this. They were all sick men, and will pay for what they did to you and everyone else at the hand of God.

I was drugged and raped on the WOW field during my interum year just after they had sent me the other guy as a lightbearer/temptation. The guy that did it was a member of our twig. He had been chasing me around all year and I kept telling him no. Finally one night he had been out partying to much and our apartment was close to the bar so we told him he could sleep on the couch. Sometime in the night my WOW sister unlocked our bedroom door and left to trade places with him. I do not remember much except the pain in certain areas because of tearing and the blood. It was not hard to figure out what had happened since I woke up next to him half covered in my own blood. Everyone including our LC thought that I should be happy that I had gotten a piece. After all if I was happy about it that would mean that I wasn't gay. Right? I had turned down several guys while on the field and had been trying to protect my WOW sister from getting into a rebound relationship and not only ruining her life but breaking the vow she took as a WOW. (Its silly to think of it now. But I was raised to keep my promises especially those made to God.) I was trying so hard to keep standing for God, that's what I thought I was doing by keeping my vow, because I promised Him not some man.

It was right after POP and sh!t was really hitting the fan all over the ministry. My boyfriend had been sent WOW to Florida, he left the field with Ralph D. and we have not spoken to each other since. Our elder corps the 14th were called lazy and many were dismissed. Most of the 16th either left or were dismissed me included. Because in the end they decided that I cared about my WOW sister too much and didn't enjoy my "affair" with my twigite enough so I must be gay. They didn't tell me the reason why I had been sent home until I had been there nearly 6 months. All the while I was expected to be the acting Area C. for Northern Nevada. When I finally told them to take this job and shove it half of Reno went with me.

I have never told this story to anyone, certainly not in this much detail. There is of course much more...but not now. Anyway I just wanted you to know that I really do understand how you feel...at least a little.

Rascal, maybe you see now why I say, I had to think that I didn't waste so much time, so much of my life, because I feel I paid a pretty high price for my time. It had to mean something, count for something...

Sorry, sometimes the old wounds do bleed don't they? When I get like this I read this verse:

II Thes 2:6

And if it seems a righteous thing before the presence of God, He will recompense tribulation to those who oppress you.

Knowing that He has my back in the end helps.