Eyesopen

Hehehehehehehehehe

Contributing? Hmmm that aint like ABS is it? Just kidding!

Thanks Jean! 'Preciate that.

Hey Rascal, I am going to totally derail this thread again, sorry I have been getting some questions via email and thought that I would share the responses here, just in case others were wondering. I absolutely believe that God helped me to be exactly where I needed to be. I still believe that God led most of us to TWI. Certainly not to be used or abused! But for some of the message that was taught, such as learning how to read the Bible, for most people that was a real eye opener. For so long the churches held the patent on Bible interpretation. But here comes some crazy hippy cult movement that teaches it to just anyone! Despite all the crap he really did help pop the bubble on the church monopoly kind of like Martin Luther did many years before. I'm not comparing them, although there are some pretty scary comparisons (not good ones either) but the sheer volume of people spouting the same thing did have an impact. Some of the interpretations were whacked but his admonition of "make it your own" was true. If he had done that perhaps none of the abuse would have happened. Perhaps he would have changed the wrong teachings, but he was not meek, he was proud. (among many other things) Were it not for TWI I would not be where I am today. Good and Bad, I choose to focus on the good and learn from the bad. I know that God did not intend for me or anyone else to be used or abused in any way by anyone associated with TWI. It happened, perhaps it was avoidable perhaps it wasn't I just don't know. But I do know that there is more than one way to deal with pain and injury. You can let it keep hurting you or you can find a way to heal the wound and learn from it. I am still learning and I have found that some wounds aren't quite as healed as I had thought and I have found some wounds that I didn't know I had, but they will all heal. Our experience, our cult was unique in so many ways. Only those that have been there can understand it. At my job sometimes we literally have hours to just talk. Sometimes the past comes up. When I try to explain TWI they just nod at me like some surreal bobble head. So I find myself editing, changing and skipping quite a bit. For instance the Corps becomes College or Seminary, WOW becomes Missionary or I just moved and the ROA becomes a camping trip with lots of friends. They won't understand so why try to explain? When I posted my little adventure for everyone to read I was not looking for nor did I expect any sympathy, yet I received it. I just needed to be able to tell my story without being interrupted with questions, like what's WOW? (By the time you get done explaining it, they still don't understand and you couldn't care less about finishing the story.) Here I told the story, I didn't get interrupted, I didn't get mocked, accused, told I was possessed or mistaken, I didn't get blamed or shamed. You all listened with compassion, understanding and respect. Because of your actions and inactions I was able to work through it my own way and hence cleanse the wound so that it can now heal. Here on this board we have a piece of a long lost household, separated by space as we are but brought together by chance or design here in cyberspace. We are still a family, just a bedraggled one. We didn't need no stinkin' Romans to persecute us heck no, we did that to ourselves! It's sad really. We have as individuals dragged our beaten and bloody carcasses to this site, not to rehash old pain, or to crucify others on a verbal cross but to share, to understand, to forgive others and ourselves so that we as individuals and as a family can heal and move forward. Then we can come together once again as a family and share with one another as we once did when we were still young and innocent. So to you my brothers and sisters I give to you all my undying appreciation and love. I give a special thanks to Pawtucket for giving us a little cyberhouse where we may all gather once again. (This, by the way is far more comfortable than a soggy field in Ohio, or any other state for that matter.) I throw out to you all an invitation to contact me anytime if you have any questions or concerns or just want to chat. (Please be aware that I am "old" in a manner of speaking so all of this fancy 'puter stuff confuses me sometimes, if you don't believe me just ask anyone that was in chat last night. I still don't know how to say goodnight without closing out of the internet) So don't expect me to understand any fancy shmancy terms. Now that I am pulling myself out of my self imposed isolation perhaps I will try to see who is still alive in my fair little city. Oh and never fear I have many more adventures lurking in my gray matter. I think I derailed this thread rather neatly. Whatcha think Rascal? Still love me? :unsure:

I was always partial to the Old Rugged Cross.

Thank you so much I nearly choked on my Pizza! Between that and your absolutely adorable expression...I just want to pinch your cute little furry cheeks! :P Is that sexual harrassment? If it is how did I score? sorry

All kidding aside it really would be wonderful if we all could really get together and just have a huge party. Just to celebrate our lives, life itself and most certainly our risen Lord and thank God for inviting us into His family. It really would be a hoot! As long as it wasn't in Ohio...sorry folks. But for now I guess we'll just have to say Thanks to Paw for making and maintaining this here site that we all can meet up in cyberspace. And anyone can join me, Rainbow and Rhino for a beer (and Kathy she always shows up a bit late for these things but she gets there). I truely am grateful for all of your lives, Have a beautiful Easter celebration!!

I dont know what it is but somehow that just sounds funnier when I hear it coming out of a squirrel!

The bunny comes in a basket...good to know. ;) Family and Friends? Uh Oh, I knew I forgot something...I was at the store bought the ham and beer and eggs (had to go back twice as people looked like they needed a good egging ) But I forgot the family...hmmm...they dont come means more beer for me :D ....they dont come I gotta cook :o ...hmmm...oh ok I guess I'll let them come! Now did I get a bunny basket? Maybe I could put T-Bone in a basket? :P Nope wouldn't want to hold up the troll or reprobate hunt. Can I just come to the Ho down and forget all of this?

OMG!!!! The Bunny's coming!! Does he come down the chiminy? (I better lock up the cats) Where's my Cadbury eggs? Who's cooking the ham? Are we allowed to have a beer? I forget. Oh well everyone have a safe and happy Easter, however you celebrate it. I love ya'll sis's and bro's alike! Edited 'cause I forgot the jumpy guys.

You know I was thinking about this very thing just yesterday. Why is it that even though we are "out" and about now when we get together even here in cyberspace the old habits and words and "Way" phrases start nagging at the edge of my brain as if they are caged animals nawing on the bars trying to escape into my mouth and onto the page? :huh: Wow that was a long sentence...sorry. But does this happen to any of you? Maybe for another thread? Edited 'cause I can't spell at this time of the morning...ah heck I can't spell worth dange!

Indeed! And that is insulting to the crap! But it's hard to get a better description. I love you sis!

Thanks everyone! It's funny I have never told that story like that. I told a watered down one once, but I "minimized" the "event". I never told my parents who were also in TWI. They were so proud of their daughter in the Corps. Then I came home early, didn't finish and wouldn't tell them why. They knew I was angry...everyone knew I was angry. I cut all my hair off. I stopped wearing pretty girl clothes. I stopped being nice to anyone I hadn't known most of my life. I stopped being daddies little girl, because she was weak and vulnerable. I stopped being me. I don't blame anyone for that. After all some good came of it. I left TWI. Oh I hovered close by to keep an eye on my parents and when my father fell asleep I held the eulogy. No-one from TWI came. I stopped any association with them when they kicked mom out of twig because she would not disown me. (She told me that it was all her children, but I knew it was me they wanted to isolate) When my mom fell asleep eleven years later we had Bill Schly run the eulogy. I just couldn't do this one. Lots of ex-TWI came. After that I decided I might try to stop being so angry. So I googled, that was 2001. The year of major change in my life. I read somewhere, I think it was here or Way Dale, don't remember that LCM was out something in my heart just let go. I cried nearly as hard as when mom passed, because I was free. God had kept his promise! or Karma had caught up...whatever! It didn't matter how, or the details, it only mattered that he had lost everything he held dear, just like I thought I did that interum year out WOW. I didn't do anything to him at all, but it happened all the same. It was not until that moment with me sitting alone in front of my computer that I realized just how angry I was at LCM for not protecting me, like he had promised as an ordained minister and final word on the Corps. He had thrown me to the wolves and I had gotten chewed up. I remember asking him to interveen, but he wouldn't. At the time I was too depressed to care what he said anymore. I never realized how angry it had made me. But I still don't blame him. I don't blame anyone...there is no profit to God in doing so. But I had changed. Writing this I realize that my parents raised a very intelligent naive girl. They sent her to ROA '82 to go out WOW for the first time. I had a great time with two great guys and a lovely little 12th corps girl who's boyfriend had been sent to Reno, near my parents. It made for some wonderful phone calls. Time passed...I went into the corps and when I went home in July '87 the little girl was no longer naive she was in fact quite nearly dead. How my parents must have cried to see the anger etched in my face. I wish I had told them everything. Throughout all of this and many more "grand" adventures I have learned how to forgive others for their trespasses, and here in this thread I have learned how not to make excuses for them while I am forgiving them. Anyway, Rascal, lady you are a doll! Once again thanks for starting this thread, sorry if I derailed it yet again. Sunesis, Your heart is as gentle and warm as a morning sun. Word Wolf, You always have the right knowledge for the right moment. Kinda like a big brother. And Johniam, When I wrote that post I nearly didn't send it. I didn't know what to expect from other posters since I really did go off topic, and now I did it again. But I really didn't expect what you wrote. When crap started to fly I turned towards God as my parents had taught me. My first thought (no inference intended) was to go to Thessalonians because it was the first written and hence, in my thinking would be the epistles most likely to give comfort to the young Christian. I was not wrong. The hope is for everyday maintenance of the renewed mind. Without the hope there is no goal to aspire to attain. The hope is like a mega bright light bulb, without it you easily get lost in the dark. Anyway I don't always agree with what you say, most of the time you're pretty rude to lots of people, but sometimes you toss out a gem. God loves ya bro. And I love all of you and everyone else who has taken the time to come to GS. Having wallowed in my anger and mistrust for so long I had forgotten that the household of God has lots of love in it, and his children love to share it.

I don't know if that's the right word or not Dooj, but it's a good one. I'm with you something just don't smell right about this thread. It "feels" wrong, almost like its a setup. He's not repentant, that is obvious. He calls a child "sexually aggressive" what a load of crap! Then that line about only fondling a 9 year old. WTFO? No...this is bait. He said all he was supposed to say, again WTFO? The word I have a problem with here is the word "supposed". Like he had a script, or a list of items that needed to be checked off. Something don't smell right. And by the way, Kathy, Ex and Abi, don't you dare not for one stinking little second feel sorry for this man! You are all beautiful wonderful women of God that have been horribly wronged, dont you have sympathy for a predator, I don't care how repentant he is, you keep your emotional distance! I will not stand by silent and let you feel anything like that for him if I can help it. I just won't! I care too much for my sisters in Christ. Even though I dont even know you very well, it doesn't matter! Don't get me wrong, wish him well all you want. Thank God he is trying to fix himself, which by the way they dont ever fix themselves they just control the "urges". Pray for his recovery (or control) but do not sympathize, please. I'm sorry if I over step any boundries here, but...I have known too many men just like him, and I know that just by his words, he aint right, not by a long shot. This is a set up if I ever saw one. So those of you who are emotionally vulnerable I suggest you please leave this thread.

Sunesis, my heart goes out to you. I never personally experienced any of the sexually perverted side of VP. Thank God. But unfortunately you did as well as many more others. I litterally found out about all of this sexual abuse only in the last year or so. Basically since I started reading the stuff here on GS and some of the links. This thread is helping me put a lot of loose pieces together to make a complete picture. So far I have recognized a lot of little signs or attitudes and most importantly I realize now when I was tested to see if I would or could be part of the inner circle. I failed. They thought that they could use my sister's profession against me, (she was a prostitute) but I was raised in Nevada where it is a profession. So I had no phobias or bad feelings about it. It just wasn't for me. They did not count on that I guess. Then they tried to tempt me with a guy I once had a crush on...that too failed, because I actually meant the oath I took as a WOW. I guess what I am trying to say is they tried to take advantage of everyone just like Rascal said. And you are so brave and strong to be able to tell your story on the net like this. They were all sick men, and will pay for what they did to you and everyone else at the hand of God. I was drugged and raped on the WOW field during my interum year just after they had sent me the other guy as a lightbearer/temptation. The guy that did it was a member of our twig. He had been chasing me around all year and I kept telling him no. Finally one night he had been out partying to much and our apartment was close to the bar so we told him he could sleep on the couch. Sometime in the night my WOW sister unlocked our bedroom door and left to trade places with him. I do not remember much except the pain in certain areas because of tearing and the blood. It was not hard to figure out what had happened since I woke up next to him half covered in my own blood. Everyone including our LC thought that I should be happy that I had gotten a piece. After all if I was happy about it that would mean that I wasn't gay. Right? I had turned down several guys while on the field and had been trying to protect my WOW sister from getting into a rebound relationship and not only ruining her life but breaking the vow she took as a WOW. (Its silly to think of it now. But I was raised to keep my promises especially those made to God.) I was trying so hard to keep standing for God, that's what I thought I was doing by keeping my vow, because I promised Him not some man. It was right after POP and sh!t was really hitting the fan all over the ministry. My boyfriend had been sent WOW to Florida, he left the field with Ralph D. and we have not spoken to each other since. Our elder corps the 14th were called lazy and many were dismissed. Most of the 16th either left or were dismissed me included. Because in the end they decided that I cared about my WOW sister too much and didn't enjoy my "affair" with my twigite enough so I must be gay. They didn't tell me the reason why I had been sent home until I had been there nearly 6 months. All the while I was expected to be the acting Area C. for Northern Nevada. When I finally told them to take this job and shove it half of Reno went with me. I have never told this story to anyone, certainly not in this much detail. There is of course much more...but not now. Anyway I just wanted you to know that I really do understand how you feel...at least a little. Rascal, maybe you see now why I say, I had to think that I didn't waste so much time, so much of my life, because I feel I paid a pretty high price for my time. It had to mean something, count for something... Sorry, sometimes the old wounds do bleed don't they? When I get like this I read this verse: II Thes 2:6 And if it seems a righteous thing before the presence of God, He will recompense tribulation to those who oppress you. Knowing that He has my back in the end helps.

I do not doubt that some people were saved by the Word of God that was held forth. But, I believe that, correct me if I'm wrong you originally accredited those savings to VP and his ministry. Right? Not to the Word or God. Are you switching tracks or just trying to confuse me? Yup! There it is... I agree mstar1, some people still believe in the "holiness" of Charlie Manson too. That doesn't make them right.

Pretty scary when you think about what was lost or almost lost with TWI. As I recall it was near blasphemy to even say "Jesus" in certain situations. I remember one time in Res. something wonderful had happened (wonderful things were in short supply when I was in res) and someone said "Praise Jesus". They got hauled of for counselling with Rev. Fart.

Full Circle, you hang in there babe. I like your posts. You often come up with some tantelizing tid bit that I can chew on. As far as the mighty "Doc defenders" I can relate to ya'll and your arguments in favor of ole Vic. Up until a couple of days ago I would have probably joined you or at least remained neutral. But I have seen the light! No really I have. I don't know who posted this quote on another thread but I liked it so much I printed it: "...I have tired to keep memory alive; I have tried to fight those who would forget. Because if we forget, we are guilty, we are accomplices...I swore never to be silent whenever, wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation...Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." Elie Wiesel, Nobel Peace Prize Acceptance Speech, December 10, 1986. I have sworn my life to defending the weak and oppressed, both in my job and personal life and yet when it came to VP and his crimes I had continued to make excuses for his behavior...never again. He has been relegated to the same catagory that I place all sexual predators, scum of the earth. This decision was not based solely upon the stories that I have heard or even on the personal experiences that I could add to that pot of knowledge. The decision was cemented when I realized that ole Vic never repented, never asked forgiveness, in short...he didn't care about his victims nor even his own "soul" until the very end. Even then his concern was not for their pain or their forgiveness (so far as we have been told by CG). Ole Vic was concerned that his legacy wasn't being carried out as he would have it. This behavior, based upon my experience (which is considerable) comes from a hardened heart. I am beginning to think that ole Vic was a textbook narcisistic sociopath, among other things.

I was beginning to wonder where he had gotten off to as well. It's not nice to open a can of worms and run away. Thank you Dot, for making me want to puke! Hmmm... yes?

I don't recall any questionaires in CFS. That doesn't mean that there weren't any I just don't remember it. I remember being VERY uncomfortable in the class. Both when I took it (every time I took it) and when I instructed it. In my mind the ministry (or most of the people in it) really didn't have the proper credentials or education to be teaching such a class in the manner that they taught it. Of course I felt the same way about the biblical counselling class. Now I know where my LC and his wife got their "permission" to show Lesbian Porn to the TC and BC wives. So glad I walked out on that one... Edited to correct poor spelling.

I was kind of hoping that it was God to whom she was referring. But I wasn't entirely certain, given the many times that the idea that VP was dead now and could not speak for himself idea had been repeated. I am glad that you cleared up that misunderstanding up for me.

Hmm...hadn't thought of that. I lived a Norman Rockwell childhood. Nothing sinister to report. Hmmm...more pieces fall into place. May I assume that the person you refer to here as the "only One" is VP? If so you should know that he was not the only one alive nor involved in TWI 20 to 30 years ago. Other people were there, living in the same place as him, eating the same food, breathing the same air. They also would know what happened. Would it not be prudent to listen to them? If you do not think so then please explain why their accounts are worth so little and his so much. I...just can't believe you said that. <_<

Rascal, thanks for replying. He was an amazingly insiduous man wasnt he?! He was good at what he did, steal, kill and destroy. I believe that this particular verse is refering to the "false ministers" and not the Devil himself. Perhaps Sunesis is correct, VP may never have been born again. That certainly would put a new twist on everything and expain a few things as well. It is hard to imagine our brother in Christ being so horrible and evil. But then I remember that it was Judas who betrayed Christ himself. Then it is not quite so "hard" to imagine. Just thinking out loud. Please continue the discussion. As I have heard the truth (and actually digested it this time) I have changed my mind. Does this make me wise? Maybe a little. :P