Eyesopen

Hi Oldiesman You and I have never conversed directly but I find your posts to be quite good at getting my mind to working. I do not often agree with you but you do make me think. As in this case. I do not remember this statement (bold type) ever being made to me or having it on the application or anywhere else for that matter. I was told that the Way Corps volunteer was going into training to become adept, learned and spiritually sharp leaders and ministers to God's people. One could argue that to accomplish this task one must take orders from their superiors, and they would be correct. But I was not in training to do what my superior told me to do. I was in training to learn the Word of God so that I could do what God told me to do. Once again it can be argued that in the Bible we are told to submit to our leaders in the Word. But they are not "superior" to me, they may be more learned, but not superior. Also they are only human and they make mistakes and I am biblically bound to only accept orders from them if they line up with the Word. Most Way Corps did not go into the training program thinking that they were there to "follow their superiors orders". Most went in believing that they would be taught how to walk more spiritually so that they could hear God better and therefore follow his orders. This was the choice they made by their free will. But as someone pointed out once they got there things were not as they had been led to believe and leaving was a difficult choice for some and near impossible for others. I am not trying to nit pic here, that comment just really rubbed me the wrong way and it is possible that it was not meant in the manner that I recieved it so please do not take offence. love ya bro

Indeed! HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!! To every and all mothers out there!

I agree that this is the purpose of an inquisition, but I am not so certain that this was the purpose of the Spanish Inquisition. I think that it may have been initially introduced this way to sell the idea to the faithful but I think that the core reason was more political in nature than it was for the purity or defense of the church/faith.

Not to derail anything here but this is an awsome point! My mind automatically went to the many discussions that we have had on this board concerning folks that stayed or stay in TWI to try and change it, myself included. How fundimentally incorrect was that? (hypothetical) Hmmm...something more for me to think on.

You will be missed my dear. I enjoy reading your point of view. It is comendable that you dont want to "taint" GS with your own drama. I respect your decision although I do wish that you would stick around even if it's on the back burner. Wherever you go, whatever you do, remember that you are loved and welcome here at the Spot. love ya lots sis!

Thank you Danny, it sounds like an interesting story. I will help if I can.

I think a lot of what God says about the conscience has to do with intent. Observe the verses from Romans 14 that T-Bone just posted. In verse 6 it clearly shows a correlation between intent (ie do this for the Lord not something else) and conscience. A similar correlation occurs in the Corinthians quote in verse 30 & 31. I am not certain of the exact significance but I am fairly sure there is one or God wouldn't have put it there. That's the quote of the day to be certain! And aint it the truth! Couldn't I just be trailer trash Barbie trying to move on up?

Actually you have made quite a bit of sense here on this thread and many others. In fact everyone here is making a lot of sense, I am really loving the communication in this particular thread. So everyone keep "throwing things out there". Speaking of which...it seems that most here are in agreement that the conscience is some sort of regulator for what most call 'morals". The morals being those things that we through outside sources consisting of people, books, school, film etc., decide are good or bad, right or wrong. In other words morals=personal laws to live by. Those morals are everchanging as we grow and learn and the world around us also grows and changes. If we cross or break one of those personal laws our conscience lets us know. It becomes our choice if we will listen or not. It also seems that we all agree that the conscience can be trained to be silent, or we can train ourselves to ignore it. And some people can write laws upon their conscience that make no sense to most of the worlds population or are contrary to that same population. Then there are those that can carterize their conscience so they feel nothing at all. (I have always wondered if these would be the children of the debil? Just a thought) So now on to this question of our sin nature affecting our conscience...hmmm...I think that maybe the sin nature is the little debil that sits on one shoulder while the little angel is your learned conscience that sits on the other shoulder.

Mine just flickers a lot...

Can I be the person that says the light bulb was possessed? Oh can I Pleeeeze! Ok....The lightbulb was possessed...it was a spiritual airport and had to be changed! It just wouldn't renew its mind no matter how many times I cast them nasty little debil sprits out! Thanks Sudo, excellent bit of wit! Cathy dear I'm with you on the whole "edit" thing! It just screams "She can't spell!"

Uh Oh! Does that mean that I have to go find a brown robe at the thrift shop?? Me too...kinda uncomfortable...in a balanced sort of way... I think that maybe a little clawing and biting would have been nice upon occasion as well. Even in "normal" society we humans often supress our natural instinct to just slap the holy SH!T out of someone who is desperately asking for it. At least most of us do... :unsure:

So...humans have reasoning abilities beyond that of other animals. Humans know right from wrong again apart from other animals. But humans also have instincts like other animals. Although many humans do not use those instincts because they live in cities where life is more regulated and "sterile" and away from nature. I believe in the Druidic and Wiccan idea that man is more "balanced" when they live closer to nature. I believe that all this concrete, metal and blacktop somehow dampens mans natural instincts. Anyway...what if the conscience is merely a more highly evolved part of our instinct? We as humans can change the parameters of our conscience to a large extent where our animal cousins can only change their fight or flight responses as they learn to trust or fear. Their instincts are governed by base emotions, like fear and base stimuli, like pain. Humans have many other more subtle things that help change the outlines of our conscience and instincts. This is why while in TWI many supressed their natural "instinct" to fight or run, where an animal would not have any such inhibition when faced with such adversity. I think our conscience helps govern our abitity to discern right from wrong, but like Another Spot said it is not the source of the law, just the regulator. Just thinking... Edited 'cause I can't spell...

Hehehehehehehehehe....potty germs....hehehehehehehehe OMG I must be more tired than I thought....hehehehehehe

Maybe that is why God places such an emphasis on "intent" in the Bible.

I think that conscience is that thing in us that when we are born is just "clean", like a brand new chalk board. We write and erase things on that board our entire lives as we learn things and our "moral" values change. Everything and everyone in our lives effect us and therefore effect our conscience, even if they have not direct contact with us, (the decisions of world leaders for example do effect us even though we never come into direct contact with them). When Adam and Eve were created, they were like babies. Their brand new conscience was like a babies would be today. It hadn't been written on yet, until God talked to them and gave them some "do's and don'ts". So I guess I agree with others here that the conscience was something that Adam and Eve had before they ate of the tree. But I think that eating that fruit taught them what "wrong" was. They had never done "wrong" up until that point, so they had no way of truly comprehending what "wrong" was. It would be like offering someone a hamburger that had never even heard of one. They would have no way of knowing if it was right/wrong or good/bad. So when this other being offered them the tree and told them that it was good...well you know the story. The adding of the knowledge of good and evil made them like gods and also set them apart from other animals. So it is possible that this conscience is what is in the image of God as other animals do not have one that I am aware of...do they? Just thinking out loud...and I'm really tired today...so the thinking is a bit blah... Great thread by the way!

Construction glue. Comes with many names but it is a glue used, obviously in construction. You find it in the "Caulking" section of a hardware store. Comes in a long tube and you apply it with a caulking gun. Barring that see if they have a "Gorilla" glue that meets your specs. Their wood glue is awsome! Good luck, sounds like fun!

OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!! Brag on girl, Brag on....

That's some good advice for a lot of folks. Some folks were hurt more than others and I have noticed that the "crime" didn't have to be a "major" one (not quite sure how to say this without making anyone feel belittled) sometimes something that one person would consider 'trivial" really packed a punch to someone else. I guess what I am saying is that no-one need feel embarrassed, or think that they need to appologize for not being 'victimized'. Just have a seat, relax, you all are among family, and if not family then at least among folks that care, regardless of what cult or religion we once or now belong to. I'm here because after being in my self imposed isolation for so long I finally decided to stick my head out of my proverbial shell and Google TWI. This came up...as many testify...I got caught up on the news and met a few folks in the process. I stay because I enjoy talking to ya'll, and I am finding that some of the stuff that I had relegated to the dark and dingy shelves labeled "Never touch again!" in my mind actually need to be taken out and dusted. If some of my experiences help others...so much the better. I also find that folks in the world don't understand what I am saying when I talk about some of my time in TWI. But they don't go nuts when I tell them that I was in a cult either. I also stick around for all the wonderful stuff that Rainbow said...

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I had to think on this for a while and I am still adjusting to being a mom again. So is the Rabbi saying that Ham castrated Noah because he was jealous and did not want another brother? But why was Canaan cursed and not Ham. Ham had other children why did God choose the youngest? Am I bugging you yet? This topic has always just been like a sticker under the skin, just enough pain to bug me.

Some people find that such adversity merely fuels their motivation machine. It is almost a "I'll show him!" mentality. As for I have derailed more than one thread in my short time here. In fact that is where this one came from...another thread...so as not to derail it further. Love ya lots (((((WG)))))

WG- it is truly amazing that this woman would stay. I just have to shake my head. God Bless her and all the other tortured souls.

I made "fool' first time around. Hmmmph...

I want to say "unbelievable" but unfortunately it is all too believable.

OMG....Thanks Socks....that was pure torture!!!! I can't believe that I actually listened to the whole thing!! I couldn't watch it...But I heard the whole drawn out, thing....aaaarrrrrggggg...I think I'm gonna need resurrecting soon....is somebody here in fellowship?

I never really liked praying out loud in fellowships because as many have said here, there was an expected manner of prayer. So when I was asked to I would mouth all that was expected and then at the end throw in some stuff that came from the heart. I didn't want to short God or worse mock Him. In TWI we were as Rascal said taught to use a list, a lift list to be specific. Even went we were SITing. It was very cold and impersonal. But when I was alone, even if it was just between classes or at work, I would talk to God the way that my earthly father had taught me. My dad always told me that he didn't need a religion to tell him how to talk to his father, so then why did he need one to learn how to talk to his heavenly father? Didn't God have a son too? Doesn't He know how kids act? Of course He does...so why treat him like an idiot, or the First National Bank. Dad used to comment after fellowship that if any of his kids were to talk to him the way that these people talk to their heavenly father he would read then the riot act. So my fellowship with my heavenly father has always been more of a discussion. I often find myself thanking Him throughout the day for little things that I notice. And I never ask for specific things. I don't remember where I learned it I think it was a VP teaching, "don't ask for money to buy a car, ask for a car". I change it a bit more to "Hey dad, I don't think this car is gonna make it too much longer. I can't fix what's wrong with it so...what do you think...let me know. Thanks" My problem comes with prayer to Jesus. Between the Catholic Church's excess and TWI's ignoring...I just have a lot of trouble developing that relationship. But I am working on it.