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I dont know Twinky, I think I would like to see what kind of emissions your car gives off now that its been cleaned out by Angel propulsion! My parents came from large families as did their parents and I am also from a large family. So when making meals when I was young mom would always have some huge pot simmering full of something on the stove. But as the years went on her large brood thinned down considerably until at last all that was left was yours truly the baby of the family. Mom adjusted her pot size to accomodate the smaller family but still we would find ourselves eating a meal several days in a row. So I asked her why she continued to make so much and her answer both surprised me and continues to stay on my mind to this day and it causes me to see things from a different point of view. She told me that her mother had taught her to always make enough food so that if you should be so blessed you may entertain Angels unaware and have enough to go around. She sited for me the verse and to this day I always make enough food for more than one meal...just in case.

That was just precious!

We sure have some wonderful stories being shared here! Jave brings up a very interesting twist to the concept of Angels. Could they appear as ghosts? Or what we define as ghosts? Throw out all the junk that VP tried to have us swallow about ghosts and such...could some of them be angels? Someone brought up the very real concept of an Angel taking on the likeness or persona of the moment. Assuming the shape of someone that would blend in and not draw undue attention and also at the same time garner trust and immediate acceptance. What if someone believed in ghosts and really needed to hear something from their mom who had passed away. Sunesis pointed out that they are here for us who are heirs to the kingdom. Socks you made some really neat comments and this is the one that I really related too, I dont know how many times I've heard a sermon where the preacher has told the congregation that they needed to get outside of themselves and stop focusing on only their lives, their is a bigger picture. I think this is why Angels only do what they do to the extent that they do it. For example; some could ask me why the Angel returned me the waiting arms of twi and all the ungodliness that went with it? And I would answer "because that is where i was going and would not accept any other destination." He worked with me where I was at in life and his appearance did change the course of my history.Angels are here to help us, among other things and I'm so glad that they bother pulling us back onto safe ground when all we want to do is catch the fish or just need to get from poing A to point B or just to watch out for us. I also think that perhaps a person who happens to be doing the 'right' thing by helping a stranger could be considered an Angel of sorts and hopefully we all have had many an experience with these people and perhaps been one from time to time.

Now that is an interesting thought.

Ya know Ham, since Lucifer was an angel and he obviously had dilusions of grandure and was just a tad narcissistic and a few other things...I do not doubt that some other Angels may be working through some strong feelings of their own. Just from the stories that are told in the Bible concerning both Angels and the fallen ones it is clear that God gave them emotions and feelings as well. It is clearly possible for them to be 'screwed up'. But I like to hope that the ones that stayed at home arent as screwed up as the ones that got cast down.

What I see from all of these beautiful stories is that God is willing and wants to help us in every aspect of our lives. The smallest of details are attended too. Like in Kit's case she didnt necessarily need to find a new church to help her through a tough time, a church pew would be more than sufficient for the job. DMiller and Sunesis simply needed to get home safely, Socks needed to get to a doctor for his finger and NiKa's dad needed some ammo. I'm sure that we dont see Angels more often than we actually see them but it is very cool when they show themselves. Another thing that I noticed in the stories is that there was never a moment of hesitation at answering them or taking their direction. No-one asked "What the heck? or Who the heck are you?" or anything like that. DMiller was told to get back in his car and drive. He did. Sunesis wandered around Brooklyn with a complete stranger leading the way. NiKa's dad crawled out of a safe spot on the words of a dead man. Both Socks and the 'mom' followed the direction of a man who was there and then wasn't and Kit found a church pew in an unlikely spot and two unknown men helped her load it in the car. No-one questioned these 'people' except to ask them if they were angels. It's really amazing how God gave us the standard five senses and an extra sixth one, as well as feelings and emotions to help us decipher and understand not only the world around us but the spiritual realm when it crosses into ours. I actually feel sorry for the folks that deny the reality that occurs all around them for whatever 'logical' reason that they use. They are really missing out on a lot of wonderful and amazing things. As for that second one of DMiller's...that's just amazing! That kind of thing is just plain biblical to me, burning bush kinda stuff! Very cool! Perhaps Mr. Ham will grace us with his story now?

Yup DWBH I remember being told that you were pozzezzed with some pretty crazy and powerful debils, but my boyfriend at the time said that he knew you and said that you weren't pozzezzed; you were right. I believed him. He was a jerk and a half but he was seldom wrong about people. I thought it was a crock when they got on the kick that everybody that disagreed with them was pozzezzed. None of it made any sense. All of their smoke screens sure made a happy playground available if the debil really did want to play, and I bet he did. Tangled web indeed! Thank God I never met Swatratra! :blink:

OKC, The incredible feeling of safety is amazing. There are no real words to describe it but it sure makes a person want to give thanks. David, let me know if you ever feel like sharing that story. I would love to hear it. CoolChef, I've never ever done acid in my life. But I understand the skepticism. Michael was there and he didnt believe it, I dont really expect you to either...after all it happened way back in 1986 and you weren't there. Hee hee George, I think we have all met some 'angels' like that in our lifetimes! I think they might be on probation or something... :blink:

My mom (and now me as well) actually use that phrase and embelish upon it by saying "Bless your little pea picking heart" She had been saying that for many many years before twi. But it usually meant "you poor thing dont you have a brain that you can borrow because the one you're using isnt working very well?"

On another thread the topic turned to debil sprits and possession and it was noted by several posters that twi made a big deal about the Debil and what he and his were doing (or not doing). But they seldom mentioned God or Jesus Christ and what they and theirs were doing. I mentioned that I believe that I have actually had a conversation with an Angel and that same Angel took the time to save my LEAD partner and I from an unknown fate. After mentioning this on the other thread I was asked if I would share the experience with all of you. I am sure that I was not the only one to have God's personal intervention in my life nor am I the only one that has spoken to an Angel. So please feel free to add your own experiences. So this is an exerpt from my own autobiography. I have edited it a bit for clarity since I am not printing the entire book here. It takes place after my rather dismal LEAD experience on the hitchhike home from New Mexico to Emporia. Michael and I were dropped off on the highway below the Chalet in Tinnie just like hundreds of other Corps had been before. There was nothing exceptional about the day in any way, it was warm. We started walking in the appropriate direction and when a vehicle would pass going our direction we would turn to face it and stick out our thumbs. Eventually we caught a ride. Each ride that we caught would take us only a small distance down the highway and we would be out on the road walking again. We spoke very little, being content with quiet contemplation of the events that we had just endured and thankful that we had both escaped physically unscathed. I know that I reveled in regaining my long lost ability to just silently talk to God as my Father. On the second day about midday Michael and I opened our eyes for what seemed like the first time since leaving the mountain and found that we had no idea where we were at. We were on a long, barren stretch of highway that was intermittingly criss-crossed with overpasses that seemed to go no-where. Quite literally there was nothing as far as the eye could see; no trees, no brush, no cars, no signs identifying the highway, no buildings…nothing…and we could see quite a ways. The road was gently rising before our feet and gently sloping away. We had not slept at all since leaving Tinnie. We had not eaten anything but compressed peanut butter bars with sesame seeds that were washed down with warm, stale water since leaving Tinnie the morning prior. Our stomachs growled and our legs felt like lead and jello alternately. We were quickly becoming discouraged. With unspoken communication Michael and I decided to sit amongst the cheat grass beneath one of the overpasses. It was just for a moment; to drop our packs and close our weary eyes, to remove our tortured skin from the unrelenting heat of the sun. There wasn’t even a breeze to caress our baking flesh. With a heavy sigh of resignation and defeat we sat in the sweltering shade. I closed my eyes and I do not know if I slept as I leaned against my backpack. I know that I sent only one silent prayer or pleading to God, “Help us” as my eyes shut. I opened them with a start, as did Michael. Suddenly we were awake, not just awake but energized and alert. We turned to look at one another from across our chosen seating areas. “What is different?” was the question on both our tongues. A gentle but insistent breeze played in my hair; it was noted on the edge of my mind. Michael and I looked first one way down the highway and then the other. We were faced with a barren landscape that was similar but different from the one that we closed our eyes too. We stood and examined our surroundings as if we had stepped from a different world. It was changed but it was not changed. Something was most definitely different but we could not decide exactly what so we shouldered our packs and began to once again walk up the highway. If we did not get a long ride soon we would most certainly be late returning to Emporia. We had walked perhaps 200 yards when suddenly a car was coming down the highway, going in our direction. It was a simple 4 door sedan of a nondescript color but it looked like a gold plated limousine to us. We stuck out our thumbs and the car pulled onto the shoulder. We rushed to the passenger side of the car and Michael opened the front door. The driver told him to stash our packs in the back seat and I suggested that Michael climb in after them and get some sleep. Somehow I was still wide awake. Michael, completely outside of character readily agreed and sleepily crawled into the back seat. He had been wide awake just scant moments previous but now suddenly he was barely able to close his door before he was sound asleep. I sat down in the front seat and for the first time took a good look at the driver. Were he standing he might reach 5’ 10”. His little tummy extended out from his body and threatened to rest on his rounding polyester encased legs. Short but not quite stubby arms protruded from his white cotton button down shirt and as he moved the “farmers” tan on them became evident. A short fleshy neck upon which a double chin rested when not jiggling, bloomed from the crisp collar. Soft brown deer eyes peered at me from behind a black pair of horned rim glasses that perched on the small bridge of his nose. Dark brown eyebrows gently arched over those eyes. Around the tall expanse of his forehead, which extended to the back of his head, grew an Olympic crown ring of slightly lighter hair. Beneath his nose was a warm smile. He was exactly what I pictured in my mind of how a traveling salesman would look. I thanked him for stopping for us and asked him where he had come from. Both Michael and I had just looked behind us and saw nothing when this car had suddenly appeared and pulled off of the highway in front of us. He asked me, “Did you not see me?” I told him that I had not. “Well no matter. I am here now am I not? And you need a ride…yes?” “Yes” we did in fact need a ride and he was here and willing to take us down this Twilight Zone highway. I wondered then what Michael would think of this unexpected boon and I turned slightly to ask. But Michael was breathing deeply and in the midst of the deepest of sleep. “Looks like your friend was tired. I don’t think that you will be able to wake him.” In fact I did halfheartedly try to rouse him; he only groaned lightly and rolled over. So I let him be. I had forgotten what it was that I wanted to ask him anyway. I turned back to the driver, from whom I never requested a name. He was smiling. I could not help but be drawn into that smile. It soothed me, comforted me and made me feel safe. This man was sent from God. I knew that as fact just as I know that at this very second I am breathing. I asked him what he did for a living, not quite certain what I was expecting to hear. He told me that he was a traveling salesman. "What do you sell?" I asked. “This and that” He said. I did not pursue the topic. The mischievous grin on my host’s face bespoke of more play with words and no real answers. My silence opened the door for him to ask me questions. He asked my name and the name of my companion. Then he asked me what we were doing on the highway hitchhiking. My answer was quite extended as you might imagine. The Way jargon that I now used as a matter of course was difficult to translate into the normal English language. Concepts such as LEAD were foreign to my new friend. As we spoke the miles sped by beneath the wheels of the sedan. The highway lay unchanged before us. Off ramps occurred often but they bore no identification at all. There were no numbers and no names assigned to any of them. There were no signs on the highway identifying it either; in truth I saw no signs at all; no speed limit signs, no destination signs…nothing. It simply droned on without any distinguishing marks or sights. Strangely enough there was occasionally another car on that stretch of road, some were going the other way and one showed up behind us for a short time and then it was gone. Perhaps it took one of the off ramps. I realized that I had forever to tell him my story…and I did tell him. From time to time he would ask a clarifying question but for the most part I happily chattered along without any further encouragement from him. I don’t remember the specifics of what I told him beyond my happy childhood, despite the illnesses and injuries and my quest to become a minister for God. I don’t remember one actual word of the conversation I only know that I told him about my life and my dreams and goals. All that I remember is that I talked for a good long time, while the highway stretched out unending before us. When at last I stopped and he had no further questions the road changed. The tires of our sedan picked up the sound of uneven pavement no doubt where it had been patched. It was this sound that caused my head to turn and behold in wonder the vision before me. Trees and dark green brush had sprung from the earth and signs had sprouted from the rough shoulder. A truck stop now rose in the distance. “This is as far as I should take you. You can get a ride here with a trucker.” There was nothing left for me to say except “Thank you” so when I stepped out of the car that is what I said. Michael had become fully awake when we pulled into the parking lot. He sat up, looked around, said “Thanks” and stepped out of the car with the bags in tow. I waved as our “salesman” drove out of the parking lot and watched as he drove onto the on ramp. His car was lost from sight for just a moment but I kept watching because I was certain that I would see it enter the highway at the bottom of the ramp which was clearly visible to me. The car never exited the ramp; it never drove back onto the highway. I know some of you are thinking that I have completely gone off of the deep end. But I assure you that I never turned my head or closed my eyes. The car got onto the ramp but never got off of it. I told Michael what I had seen when he asked me why I was still staring at the ramp. He discounted it and told me that there was probably a fork or something on that ramp. Well it was possible I supposed. The ramp does curve out of sight for a short bit. I determined that we would need to use that ramp one way or the other if we were to get back to Emporia so I would see what I would see at that time. It is possible that it is here at this truck stop that we used our $10 to get some food. The entire place seemed like an unfortunate disappointment to me after talking with the salesman. Inside I felt freer than I had for what seemed like an eternity. My heart was light. Which considering what I had just endured on Mt. Capitan seemed like hypocrisy. It wasn’t like I had forgotten the ordeal, or that I was no longer angry. It was more a kin to a deep seated peace. The kind that comes from an unerring, untainted, complete and total trust in the path that you are on or in the fact that you are safe. I knew beyond any doubt that this salesman had been an Angel. There had been too many irregularities. Michael of course thought that I was nuts. Perhaps I was or am, but I know what I saw and I know what I felt. After a bit of looking we did catch a ride out of the truck stop. Michael insisted that I climb into the sleeper and use it for its intended purpose. I was “obviously” delusional from the lack of sleep. He had been completely awake and fully refreshed until he looked at his watch and it told him that he had only slept for around an hour. So now he was weary and grumpy. I did climb into the sleeper but I did not close my eyes until I had checked out the on ramp. There were no forks in the bloody thing. There were no other ways off of the ramp except for the openings at either end. A quick look at the highway showed me that it looked as normal as any other highway in both directions; black pavement lined in greenery and signs. There was no sense in pointing out any of this to Michael as he had seemingly made up his mind that I was hallucinating. So I went to sleep and I slept all the way into Kansas. So there it is my Angel story. Originally I had promised to tell this story after I had finished telling my LEAD story...now I have. I was called crazy by my fellow Corps. But if I had claimed that I had cast out 12 debil sprits they would have given me a medal or something. Our focus was really wacked!

And thank you Waysider for that incredibly descriptive and disgusting insight. :blink: I find it strange that one can be addicted to a cult but then again a workaholic is addicted to work and I've seen some athletes addicted to a sport or aspect of it. I think perhaps we as humans need some sort of structure or groove that we can fit into and move in without having to apply a great deal of thought or what we perceive as extreneous effort. After a while whatever we were doing in twi became our little groove and it made us feel good to be in that groove. It gave us a sense of accomplishment...even if we were standing still.

Like Belle and MStar I was and probably still am accused of being possessed and maybe I am... :o I always figured it was a lot like being crazy, if you have to ask if you are...you probably arent. And not to derail the thread too much but I was wondering does anyone know where they actually got the names for all these debil sprits? I dont remember there ever being a list of them in the Bible or even too many verses that really definitively named one. I know there are places that appear to be calling some spirit by a adverb style name but even those seemed a little hinky to me. Jesus asked one what his name was and I get the impression from those verses that he was looking for an actual name like George or something. I mean Lucifer is a real name right? It doesnt say that he changed his name when he fell from heaven only that he was now using a title that depicted his nature. There are some books that give the angels names and I'm pretty sure there are some that give debil sprits names as well... actual names. So where did twi come up with all of their names? Anyone know?

He hee that was fun! I got it to change red, green, purple, sage, pink and then back to green and then purple then I stopped. Do I have too much time on my hands?

Thanks Belle! I found that to be quite interesting.

This sounds like the proverbial 'any kind of attention is better than none at all'. I have been told that sometimes the abused allow it to continue even when they know it is wrong because they believe that the person abusing them is really doing it out of love. Another aspect is when the abuser convinces the abused that they are the ones causing the problem. I cant tell you how many times I have heard a battered wife say 'I deserved it'. Of course I've kind of dropped into the realm of physical abuse as well as mental, but I would think that on some level sexual abuse is similar. I have heard some people use the defense that 'she asked for it by the way she was dressed' or worse 'she asked for it by being so pretty'. I heard a father say that about his thirteen year old daughter once.

Socks that is an interesting way of looking at things. And I understand it.. :blink: Perhaps my own 'third track' being recognized? Twinky, that's actually not a bad idea. I have to go and take care of my car right now but perhaps later tonight I will have the opportunity to start such a thing.

OKC, thanks for the article. He is a very brave man.

Great post T-Bone! I can really relate to the part about how those experiences shaped me. It wasnt all bad for me either, but when it was bad it was really ugly. But that which I experienced is a part of me and it helped shape me into who I am today, good or bad, right or wrong. I also find myself sifting through things as they kind of just show up. I dont do like some people do and try to break down PFAL or specific doctrines because their 'bugging me' or I feel the need to regurgitate it. But as things come up, like believing = receiving, I re-examine the doctrine with everything at my disposal and I reach a conclusion that I can live with. Now that conclusion may change tomorrow but it no longer hovers over me like a dark cloud. I totally believe that only God has the true 'formulae' for spiritual perception and awareness and He's gonna teach it to whomever he wants to. The Huckster got a lot of money, time, energy, love and just years and lives from a lot of good Godly people. But I feel that I learned from it and I moved on with my life and today I love God and have my own walk with Him. Rascal, I actually wrote it all down when I wrote my autobiography a couple of months ago. If you like I can send you that chapter. I'm not publishing the book until next January. I didnt want to overlap Kris's book in any way.

I think that you are absolutely correct in this assessment but I do not rule out that their is a spiritual realm and I honestly believe that there are times that it crosses over into our realm and if we are paying attention or are meant to we see it. It's an area of gray for me.

Interesting how the cleansing of one person's soul onto paper has caused others to find a kind of similar type of desire and ability to cleanse their own soul. My roomate who was never in twi but had the unfortunate misadventure of living with a twi fanatic for six years also took the time to read Kris's book. She devoured the thing. When she was done she told me that now she understood how her previous 'roomie' had similarily brainwashed her from day one even to the extent of telling her that if she ever moved out she would be damning herself to the pits of hell. The abuses inflicted upon her were also criminal. But with some of what Kris shared about the thought processes involved with certain teachings she believes that she better understands how she was abused and can now start to making more positive changes to facilitate healing.

Actually I saw one that I'm certain of once. It was during my infamous LEAD trip. On the way home to Emporia were hitchhiking in the middle of no-where and I'm certain that it was an angel that picked us up and took us down the road. It's a long story and nobody believed me, even my partner who fell asleep in the back seat the second he got in and somehow never heard anything for the next few hours but was automatically wide awake the second we turned off the highway. I stopped telling people about it rather quickly because they thought I was insane (I was in res for crying out loud!). But it was real. I know it was. But I also saw some other things that have to be chalked up to the other side. As far as spiritual perception and awareness...i think that only God and the spirit within can truly teach us that, and its not all black and white. There are degrees of evil just as there are degrees of good. I was never one to see devil spirits under every rock. I always figured that most of those 'sightings' were a bunch of crap. But people certainly began to expect us to be able to see them. Even my immediate leaders encouraged me to 'see' things with my spiritual eyes when we were running big classes out on the field. Gotta protect the babes from the attacks of the debil dontcha know!

That was a beautiful synopsis! I just love the way makes things come full circle using the same or similar imagry. It really is beautiful. I also found God's relationship with Moses to be interesting. So very few people, even those spoken of in the Bible really got to have that special treatment from God Almighty. Such an honor and a great responsibility.

I absolutely believe that God had a special place in his heart for Abraham. I believe that he is one of the very few that God personally went to visit, outside of Adam that is. Just before the Sodom and Gomorrah thing God appeared to Abraham with two of his angels and had dinner. Then the angels were sent on to Sodom while God and Abraham bargained for thier salvation. Abraham got him all the way down to only ten righteous and all five cities would be spared but the angels only found four and one of those was pretty shakey. That whole account speaks to me of the respect and love that God had for this one man. So yes I think that in a lot of ways the Jewish people were blessed by association. Not all ways of course but it sure didnt hurt their case any when they screwed up. Once upon a time God had a plan that included a fully populated earth that wasnt such a mess. He planned on an entire race of humans that lived in harmony and joy with one another and lived immortal, that is if I'm reading Genesis correctly. I think that you and I spoke of this briefly once concerning the tree of good and evil and the tree of life. God didnt put them there as a temptation. It was in the plan that they would partake of them but they jumped the gun. I really think that if mankind could only follow the simple rules of love God and love your neighbor as yourself the world could heal.

I really wish I had a house with a yard big enough to have one of those. But then I would get all wierded out if it got windy or overcast. It's always windy and overcast in the movies when people get lost in the labyrinth.

Boogers! Great word! The rest are good too, but "Boogers"...great word! Says it straight.