Eyesopen

I may be wrong but isnt this like thinking if you "likeminded on the word," or took pfal class it puts you in a cult like group thing again?

I get that no "believer" likes an unbeliever theory.

I just do not like the whole concept of it.

reminds me of something um what was that? hmm? a cult maybe?

so you meet someone who "believes" as you do!

how lucky, and stale . I want a person who can teach me and I can grow and change and become with.

but then again ive been single a long long time.

Im probably wrong.

seems like the idea it isnt about what he/she thinks, wants or needs it is the word and nothing but the word that you would have a relationship built on for a foundation in life.

could work im just looking for something um different.

Hmmmm....I couldn't access the site from work because it couldn't get past the firewall, but in light of "likeminded" people getting together. I think it really does depend upon what you want out of a partner. I look at it like both parties having similar interests, such as skiing or jogging. It certainly does not "hurt" if both are Christian because there will certainly be doctrinal issues that you will not agree upon. But that may not be enough of a "learning environment" for everyone. So no Pond, I don't think you are wrong. Because as you say it is not what you are looking for, but others may be. But I also do not look at believers actively looking to hook up with other believers as a degression into culthood anymore than a skiier looking to hook up with another skiier as going into a cult. It's just what they prefer.

Now if someone were to tell me that I cant marry a skiier because I want to, that I have to marry a believer, then it becomes culthood. Especially if I actually let them tell me what to do with my life. Been there done that...burned the bridge and forgot how to swim so I aint goin' back.

I am not showing nude pics of myself here so don't ask!

You ruined my day! :( Just kidding!

However, this would directly contradict everything the Bible says about rape and the legal punishment for it, as well as God's commands to be fruitful and multiply and the Bilbical verses that refer to children as a precious gift from God.

So this leads me to thinking or rather wondering why both the "guest rights" and the laws against rape and such included in the OT.

Although your point about that one instance of being a lesson of sorts makes perfect sense, but what about the custom to begin with. Do you think that perhaps the original intent was lost or buried beneath the quest for power or religious zealousness?

I'll start with the latter and then go back to the former . . .

One theory rests with a sacred code of hospitality regarding "guest-right", that required strangers to be offered food, drink and a place to sleep. There are anthropoligists who believe this duty even extended to providing sexual comapnionship to a guest as well as guarding their lives. Another theory, that would fit with this, is that children, especially daughters, were viewed as property more than as loved ones.

You're absolutely right, I had forgotten about that "guest-right" thing. But just as you I kind of question just how "sacred" or aligned with the will of God it might have been.

The woman who was gang raped and left to die wasn't left so by her father, she was a concubine and interestingly enough, of the tribe of Levite. During the time period when this occured, Israel was in the midst of a political upheaval. The result of her rape and death was an all out war against the tribe of Benjamin. The ironic ending to all of this is, after vowing to NOT allow any of the women from the other tribes to marry any of the men from the tribe of Benjamin because they raped and murdered a Levite woman, the tribes then decide to murder thousands of men, women, and children at the Rock of Rimmon and then allow the tribe of Benjamine to forceably take the surviving virgins as wives.

Ok, this is just plain wacky! It just makes me wonder where my little emoticon is that shakes his head in wonder.

I see all of this as a lesson in politics and religion run amok. I don't see it as something God willed or commanded, but as a lesson in what happens to people who are zealously and fundamentally religious beyond reason and to people who are zealous and hungry for political power. It is also a lesson it the dangers of anarchy.

I agree with your assesment here. But it still makes me wonder why or how this total disregard for females could have been condoned or encouraged by God.

Hmmm...sounds like it could be fun! I say give it a shot. I promise to stop in and give my 2 cents worth.

Excellent links Bramble.

If I recall correctly the Egyptians had a "Flood" story that predated the Moses version. I am looking for that link again now.

www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html

I hope that works.

Abi, in light of "Does the Bible denegrate women" I have always had a question concerning the man who gave his daughter over to the mob (she was of course raped to death) in stead of sending out the person that they wanted. A similar theme was taking shape in Sodom with Lot and his family before the Angels stepped in and stopped it. So here is the question, " Do you know of any ancient custom or law or something that would account for this behavior?" Once again we are in an "ich" area. What's the whole story here?

Ladies and Gentlemen...My heart goes out to you. I was never married while in TWI. With all that you have said here, I am really glad that I wasn't. I managed to get myself into enough pickles because of my "attitude" I cannot imagine how fast they would have started the fire under the vat of boiling oil if they had actually expected me to "submit" to anyone! Ha! I can see that happening in my lifetime...NOT!

God Bless all your beautiful hearts for putting up with such cr@p.

If St.Victoronius' ecclesiastical succession at the sacred city of New Knoxville were even one iota of half the man the holy father had imagined himself to be - or wished to be -, the first session of "the Power" would be broadcast 'round the globe for free - to every man, woman, young person and child and any other created thing above, below and upon the inhabited planet. The Path would be broadcasting its doctrines 24 hours a day via satellite and shortwave, drawing from the archives of the sacred father's recorded utterances from the BRC on the mount.

DVD sets of the Power would slide through the pews like hot pancakes.

And everybody would be talking about it.

And there would be much dancing of wallets and pocketbooks,

leaping for joy in New Knoxville.

But we live in the Dark Universe.

This, regardless of errors or plagerism, cannot be argued with IMHO. True Christians give without thought or expectation of recompense from man of any kind. Again IMHO.

Wow this is amazing stuff Paw! Thanks for posting it. It's good to actually see the history behind TWI.

For example: when I say to an ex-Way friend, "I was a WOW in Texas during the 4000 for the 40th year" - they know what I'm talking about. When I say it to my NBW* friend it has to come with a lengthly explanation - it has to be translated!

Yup, aint that a fact...needs to be translated. Hehehe That's funny in a sad sort of way.

Friends, yes I had/have a few. I count quite a few people as friends that I may not see again until the gathering, but I still love them and know that they also love me. My parents were true friends, cant say the same about my brother.

I've met some wonderful folks here on GS that I consider friends and I "hope" (does anyone else have to almost force themselves to use that word?) to meet a few more.

Cinderpelt-Welcome to the Spot. Sit back and enjoy yourself. If you need anything do not hesitate to ask.

Love ya'll

Joe welcome to the Spot! It's a nice place to relax. Enjoy yourself if you ever need anything I will be happy to help.

Love ya bro!

Happy Birthday Rascal. Really enjoy yourself, it is your day to let it all hang out...well maybe not "ALL". That could be potentially dangerous, I wouldn't want you out running around in your birthday suit distracting people or anything.

I love you dearly sister!!

Eyesopen,

Did you just log in, or did you call in, also? To talk during the podcast you have to dial in at 724-444-7444. Via computer, all you can do is listen. If you did dial in, have no idea what the problem was. Too computer ignorant here!

Hope you can join the conversation next time.

Suda

OK now I think I figured out what happened. After I called in apparently Paw lost power and unknown to me I got transfered to another pod cast. I listened to a very interesting story and when it was done I signed out. (All on the phone mind you) but when I signed out on the puter the GS box came up with the proper chat room. So consequently I thought that I had been listening to the right show, which I hadn't been. Wow that was confusing! I'll try again next week.

Ok that was wacky! :wacko: I was listening on the phone, but according to the web site I wasn't really there. :ph34r: I could hear them, but they couldn't hear me. Rainbowsgirl tried to send me a message but since I wasn't logged onto the site she couldn't send one. Then the truely strange happened...I signed out and right after I did the message box popped up and said that I was logged in! Ok so what was that all about? Good story by the way!

Ok - well here goes....

Sigh, how embarassing! Some folks in rez had Mr Coffee coffee makers and they would chip in with a bunch of friends and make their own coffee when they needed that little extra "zing."

Others of us had either Folger's freeze dried or Nescafe dried coffee - whatever was cheaper or whichever our sponsors sent us.

Sometimes before a major teaching, especially if it was a major work day, we'd barely have time to shower and change much less get our buzz on. So.......it wasn't uncommon to just take a big spoonful of those brown crystals and .....well, it wasn't tasty but it did the trick. I learned it from elder corps...desparate times call for desparate measures.

Yup, I really am glad that now they have chocolate coated coffee beans. They taste a bunch better.

I'm wondering who these guys are!!

Well I may be showing my age but...I know who Good Seed is...have all their old stuff...I know who Tom Burke is...ditto on his stuff and I know who Dean Ellenwood is again on the "stuff". But the rest of 'em...not a clue.

Agape seems to have no boundaries. People need boundaries. Otherwise, we give and give and give, until we give ourselves away!

Hi everyone...I'm coming into this discussion a bit late and am finding it quite interesting.

Shifra welcome back to the Spot! This is quite the thread to open with.

My thoughts on this particular section of post is this...agape as you described it (quite aptly I might add) probably does not have boundries simply because it is of God. But as you also say people do need boundries. I think that Jesus gave those boundries to man when he said:

John 13:34, 35 NIV

34 A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

"As I have loved you..." this is both a guildline and a boundry. As T-bone pointed out Jesus Christ was not made of milk toast. He had teeth and he did bite. He did not allow people to walk on him and I am certain that his patience was stretched pretty thin at times. He loved people and sometimes that means telling them something that they would rather not hear.

So in answer to the question "At what point does Agape step over the line into loving someone else MORE than one's self?" It never does. If it does then it is no longer agape because it is outside of "as I have loved you."

Johniam- thanks for reminding me of that verse. Way to bring me back around. But here is a "amok" type of question, Is this a revision of the "Love your neighbor as yourself" or is it a different commandment? It does seem to be isolating "disciples" from the rest of humanity. Any thoughts? Anyone?

Hello All. I am looking to obtain a copy of the children's version of Jesus Christ Our Passover. I have been told one exists but I do not know the title or author. I have searched ebay to no avail. Would anyone happen to have one laying around they no longer want or have any suggestions as to where to look for one?

Thanks.

Peace :)

Jacy

Welcome to the Spot Jacy!

I am sorry but I have never heard of such a book. But I will see what I can find in a search.

God bless

I look forward to any discussion on these points. I really love this thread!

We can of course feel free to "amok" in here. :P

Hi JJ, according to der vey today I'm an oldtimer. I started hanging around wayfers and twigs in about '78. I took the class in '80. Went out WOW in '82 and stayed in Arkansas for a couple of years before going into the Corps in '85. All that is pretty generic. I was asked to depart the Corps in '87 and upon returning home I was asked to take over half of the state as an area coord. So I did. LCM never asked me to give him allegence even though we corresponded on a friend level for about 3 years after being kicked out of the Corps for being "possessed".

After POP in '85 I questioned everything concerning doctrine, and I was in trouble quite a bit while in residence. I managed to stay mostly below the radar while on the WOW field on my interum until my loving WOW sis decided that she did not want to keep her commitment so instead of just leaving she decided to mess up everyones year and get me canned from the Corps as well.

Anyway as I said I returned home in '87. Did the AC thing for a while, then when we got a new LC he abolished the AC positions cause "he could do it himself". So I ran a twig for a while until '90. My father, who was also in the ministry fell asleep and not one twigger (except from my twig) came to the eulogy or even called. I was done with their hypocrasy. It wasn't anything the ministry did as an organization that made me depart. It was the callous way that regular believers were treated by the local "leadership" that turned my back. My mom stayed in because she liked some of the folks and after dads passing she found that fellowship was a nice way to get out and still be a bit active, not so lonely feeling. But then my brother and his tc kicked mom out of fellowship because she would not disown me. (I know this order came from our LC, not from anyone higher) Well that just devestated mom and made me downright hostile. As I said it was the local leadership that made me walk away.

I know I am a little late to this discussion but here is a site that I use a lot to cross reference Greek words with how they were used in places besides the Bible.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/

It helps me to gain a better understanding of how a word was used.

http://www.biblestudytools.net/Concordance...iveConcordance/

You are the very best Rainbow!!! Thank you sooooooo much, my little ears are in heaven and boy did I need to be calmed down. Got a little out of sorts today.

Love you sis!!!!

Hey Wolf, TNX!

See old dogs can be taught!!

Hope I got that right.

Well, not all the milk is sour. I continue to believe that what I was taught of the Word works in my life. Men may have let me down, but God never has; and I continue to place my trust in Him.

Jean, ultimately all humans will fall short and disappoint so it is very smart to place your trust in God. It is true that some good things came out of my involvement with TWI as well. But as I said and I believe you have as well, those good things can be attributed to individuals and not the ministry as a whole (ultimately God takes the credit but I think you understand what I am saying).

The milk is a great analogy to illustrate this phenomena. As it isn't all sour. And not everyone that shops at the same store will come away with sour milk. A different day of the week or a different supervisor or any number of variables will change the outcome. But the bottom line remains the same. The store is responsible to provide what it advertises. If the store feels that the product is faulty then they talk to the dairy and so on. But the store still bears a certain amount of responsibility.

In similar fashion the ministry advertised several products. They delivered on a few of them. But it seemed that the deeper or more involved you became the less likely you were to recieve that for which you paid.

Waysider, you have got some grandes huevos my friend! If someone were to yell in my face like that back in the day I probably would have obviously ignored them, hence making them angrier. Today I would just walk away. But I am a different person today. But dude! You stuck it out and got that AWSOME nametag! Mine didn't have the super cool Bible/Way tree/ Word over the world logo on it. Hmmmph....I knew I joined the wrong program! <_<

I honestly doubt that we were dealing with a force so sophisticated that it would have been able to detect thought crime, a la Orwell's 1984.

OMG!!! Do you mean to tell me that there really isn't a thought police? :o All this time I thought....

Just kidding...

Great post Mark!

I get what you're saying about shame, but not about usurping someone's free will.

"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger" Nietzsche

Ok Oldies, I think you are right perhaps "usurp" might be too strong a word, maybe "infringe" is more approprate.

usurp

- seize something without right: to use something without the right to do so

usurp (v)

seize, appropriate, take, take over, assume, commandeer, grab, arrogate

OR

infringe

- disobey or disregard something: to fail to obey a law or regulation or observe the terms of an agreement

- encroach on somebody's rights or property: to take over land, rights, privileges, or activities that belong to somebody else, especially in a minor or gradual way

infringe (v)

encroach on, intrude on, interfere with, impinge on, trespass, invade, overstep, disobey, disregard, breach, break, violate, contravene, transgress,...

I'm liking the word "infringe" because I think that TWI was more about disregarding our free will than commandeering it. They encroached upon our lives. They used our love and caring against us. They turned our love for our fellow Christians into a vicous hook and our care for humanity into a sin that should be eradicated. Am I blaming them for something? You are darn right I am. I admit I fell for the fake "I love God" spiel that they vomitted like Linda Bl@ir. But I fell for it because I actually thought that what they were selling was something that they actually had. But they didn't. False advertisers is a nice way to put it.

I am glad that your experience with TWI was not frought with any negetives. And I remember good times too. But those good times happened because of true Christians that really did love God and really did have the goods. Not because of the organization or the false ministers that led it.

With TWI I think the more appropriate quote would be "You can catch more flys with honey than with vinegar." Everyone's Momma.

Nietzsche was a great man but not everything makes you stronger.