Eyesopen

This is absolutely wonderful news! We had a big push for it here in Reno. One of our own was resting under a marker that did not have an inscription identifying his faith. But recently it was added and there was a big ceremony with many denominations present. It really was beautiful. I have always fervently believed that if these men and women are willing to die to protect our freedoms, including freedom of religion then they should be honored by having freedom of religion. How can one be expected to fight for a freedom that is not extended to them completely? Just my opinion.

I think that is quite right the men made the rules and organized the Bible so the oppressive culture probably did slip into the translations of the Bible. It was the Council of Nicaea that the books were voted on. I am looking for the link that states the Canons that came out of it. But here is a link to the Council of Elvira where the Church decided on all sorts of ways to degrade, segregate and made different rules and punishments for women. http://faculty.cua.edu/pennington/Canon%20...lviraCanons.htm I posted some other links back on page 3 I think that will take you to a website that would link you to the Gospel of Mary. I will try and find the others. Here's the First Council of Nicaea page. http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum01.htm

I guess VP figured that meant complete idiot or completely possessed but it really meant completely sick of hearing the sh!t!

Wow! I couldn't have said it better myself, hmmm...I didn't...but you did. Excellent post! Do you mind if I copy it for future reference? It's not like it would be the first one of your posts that I have copied. Hehe Between you and Abi and several others my file cabinet runneth over! But that's a good thing. So if we are going to act upon the premise that the OT is mostly history and that not everything in reflects God's will then where does the question of the Bible denegrading women fit in?

Is the arrangement in the center of the table perfectly arranged for maximum blessing?

That would be sooooo awsome if a woman won!!! And she is so very cool!

This is a great thread! I have tears threatening, but I'm at work so.... I've never seen the changing of the guard, but someday I will. My father served as did all of my uncles, my grandfather and his brothers, my brothers...frankly every man in our family dating back several generations has served if even for a short term. My father's ashes still reside in my home, I thank him every day. Tomorrow I will spend my day at work, recieving calls from soldiers in Iraq who are calling home to speak to their loved ones. I will joyfully transfer their calls. No I'm not an operator, just work in a guard unit with Security Forces. Transfering calls through our line here gives those overseas a little extra time to talk to their loved ones. So we do this for them, otherwise they get 15 minutes a day (if they can get to a phone) and that is it. Perhaps this is where I could tell you of a young service man who got leave to return home to tend to his sick mother a few days ago. He arrived late in the afternoon, around 5 only to be told that his mother had passed the night before. They were unable to contact him because the flight that he had taken could not recieve a transfered call. (He flew commercial instead of Military). Soldiers pay for our freedom with so much more than their lives...

You my dear are the lucky one despite the trials by fire that you have endured. To find someone that you can honestly share your life with is for many a dream come true. It is what I believe to be the "full circle" of God's love. Someday my dear sister we will have to share a cup of coffee together. We live fairly close to each other. Hmmm...food for thought. love ya!

I dont think that Eve was placed "under" Adam so much as Adam was given the responsibility of Eve. Remember he is the one that denied any copability in the whole "apple" affair, and blamed it all on Eve. So then in the "fall" Adam was given a huge majority of the responsibility of his wife. If I remember correctly without going back some pages to find it, man was charged with the protection of the woman and if he died his sons were responsible for her. So it wasn't so much that woman was made lower than man but she was removed from the equation so man could not blame her for his own actions any more. That of course backfired because today Eve is blamed for the entire fall of man.

Now that's an interesting idea. But if I think too hard on it I will "amok". So I will wait until I go home to do that.

...more than once? The song comes immediatly to mind, "Wasted Days and Wasted Nights" What did VP teach about if a person is told something 3 times they should have it down or they are possessed or unwilling to listen. So now why did that not apply to being required to sit through every stinking class that came down the pipe every time it was within a 300 mile radius of your home? You know when the MOG said, "How many times have you already been told this?" My answer was, "Once. Because if you have told me before I obviously didn't think you were worth listening to, and if you ask me again my answer will remain the same." I remember asking my mother the very first time that I took the class as a teenager, "Mom, why does he keep repeating himself? Does he think we are all stupid?" She should have just said, "Yes" Hmmmph!

It probably was a custom, but it is part of the "story" in more than one place and where in heavens name did they come up with the entire dingy idea in the first place? I am beginning to really comprehend your viewpoint concerning the OT. The more that we pick at it even in the small sense of this thread the more it looks like mostly history, as you say of what occured not necessarily what God wanted to occure or how he wanted it to occure. I just need to say for the record, "Thank you Abi for talking with me so much on this thread. Your insights have helped me to see many things in a fresh light. In short, doctrinal discussion with you is refreshing and enjoyable. I really hope that we can continue for as long as we want to, running amok and everything!"

Hmmmm....I couldn't access the site from work because it couldn't get past the firewall, but in light of "likeminded" people getting together. I think it really does depend upon what you want out of a partner. I look at it like both parties having similar interests, such as skiing or jogging. It certainly does not "hurt" if both are Christian because there will certainly be doctrinal issues that you will not agree upon. But that may not be enough of a "learning environment" for everyone. So no Pond, I don't think you are wrong. Because as you say it is not what you are looking for, but others may be. But I also do not look at believers actively looking to hook up with other believers as a degression into culthood anymore than a skiier looking to hook up with another skiier as going into a cult. It's just what they prefer. Now if someone were to tell me that I cant marry a skiier because I want to, that I have to marry a believer, then it becomes culthood. Especially if I actually let them tell me what to do with my life. Been there done that...burned the bridge and forgot how to swim so I aint goin' back. You ruined my day! :( Just kidding!

So this leads me to thinking or rather wondering why both the "guest rights" and the laws against rape and such included in the OT. Although your point about that one instance of being a lesson of sorts makes perfect sense, but what about the custom to begin with. Do you think that perhaps the original intent was lost or buried beneath the quest for power or religious zealousness?

You're absolutely right, I had forgotten about that "guest-right" thing. But just as you I kind of question just how "sacred" or aligned with the will of God it might have been. Ok, this is just plain wacky! It just makes me wonder where my little emoticon is that shakes his head in wonder. I agree with your assesment here. But it still makes me wonder why or how this total disregard for females could have been condoned or encouraged by God.

Hmmm...sounds like it could be fun! I say give it a shot. I promise to stop in and give my 2 cents worth.

Excellent links Bramble. If I recall correctly the Egyptians had a "Flood" story that predated the Moses version. I am looking for that link again now. www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html I hope that works. Abi, in light of "Does the Bible denegrate women" I have always had a question concerning the man who gave his daughter over to the mob (she was of course raped to death) in stead of sending out the person that they wanted. A similar theme was taking shape in Sodom with Lot and his family before the Angels stepped in and stopped it. So here is the question, " Do you know of any ancient custom or law or something that would account for this behavior?" Once again we are in an "ich" area. What's the whole story here?

Ladies and Gentlemen...My heart goes out to you. I was never married while in TWI. With all that you have said here, I am really glad that I wasn't. I managed to get myself into enough pickles because of my "attitude" I cannot imagine how fast they would have started the fire under the vat of boiling oil if they had actually expected me to "submit" to anyone! Ha! I can see that happening in my lifetime...NOT! God Bless all your beautiful hearts for putting up with such cr@p.

This, regardless of errors or plagerism, cannot be argued with IMHO. True Christians give without thought or expectation of recompense from man of any kind. Again IMHO.

Wow this is amazing stuff Paw! Thanks for posting it. It's good to actually see the history behind TWI.

Yup, aint that a fact...needs to be translated. Hehehe That's funny in a sad sort of way. Friends, yes I had/have a few. I count quite a few people as friends that I may not see again until the gathering, but I still love them and know that they also love me. My parents were true friends, cant say the same about my brother. I've met some wonderful folks here on GS that I consider friends and I "hope" (does anyone else have to almost force themselves to use that word?) to meet a few more. Cinderpelt-Welcome to the Spot. Sit back and enjoy yourself. If you need anything do not hesitate to ask. Love ya'll

Joe welcome to the Spot! It's a nice place to relax. Enjoy yourself if you ever need anything I will be happy to help. Love ya bro!

Happy Birthday Rascal. Really enjoy yourself, it is your day to let it all hang out...well maybe not "ALL". That could be potentially dangerous, I wouldn't want you out running around in your birthday suit distracting people or anything. I love you dearly sister!!

OK now I think I figured out what happened. After I called in apparently Paw lost power and unknown to me I got transfered to another pod cast. I listened to a very interesting story and when it was done I signed out. (All on the phone mind you) but when I signed out on the puter the GS box came up with the proper chat room. So consequently I thought that I had been listening to the right show, which I hadn't been. Wow that was confusing! I'll try again next week.

Ok that was wacky! :wacko: I was listening on the phone, but according to the web site I wasn't really there. :ph34r: I could hear them, but they couldn't hear me. Rainbowsgirl tried to send me a message but since I wasn't logged onto the site she couldn't send one. Then the truely strange happened...I signed out and right after I did the message box popped up and said that I was logged in! Ok so what was that all about? Good story by the way!