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Hahahahahaha...wait a minute...am I supposed to call my lawyer now? Ahhh to heck with it...that was funny...I don't care who you are!

Funny I've been thinking about this recently. I don't know anything about a specific covenant theology but I am coming to the conclusion that Romans 10:9, 10 is as you say only the beginning of a journey. I think that it does ensure that a person escapes the "wrath" but it does not guarantee that a person will be allowed access to the kingdom of heaven. From what I can figure, access to the kingdom requires faithful service to God. Almost like works but not works. Works cannot make a person righteous only God can do that but works as a faithful servant or child can garner favor. Similar to a child that cleans his room everyday. His parents are more likely to allow him to go to the movies with his friends than the child that doesn't do anything. (Simple analogy) We are His children, if we wish to go out and play in this life and beyond then we need to be obedient to His word and His will. The part about it being a contract I think is a good analogy. We are adopted children. He adopted us but we also adopted Him. It was mutual, we both needed each other, and we both made a contract with each other. God has promised not to break His side of the agreement, we need to do the same. Then we both, us and God need to keep our word. What Rascal said is also correct. There are those that think that God made a contract with them and He did not. So they will not be welcomed into the family when all is said and done. Those are some of my thoughts on the subject.

Hahahahaha..Awwwhahahahahahaha Awwwhahahaha..snort, snort ahahahahahaha...quite it you guys I'm gonna pee my pants! Hahahahaha

Mine are still considered first edition just not first impression, point is they should all (yours and mine) have the same exact material in them. As far as David goes perhaps it is a bit of both and maybe more. But God's forgiveness, even in the OT was dependant upon asking forgiveness. So to recieve His forgiveness David had to repent. Repenting meant that David was willing to return to God's favor and to do God's will. This would perhaps cause God to find that David's story was worth recording so that many generations could learn from David's mistakes and triumphs but mostly of his meekness and God's willingness to forgive even the worst of crimes if a person were to make themselves humble before Him.

Wow that is bizarre! I often wondered how TWI managed to finally screw up the truth of Romans 1. Now I know. Thanks Bramble. :)

Curiosity...what dates are on your books? Very true, David's misdeeds were recorded for all to see. Perhaps this is so because he repented.

There are several examples in the Bible where God gave someone a special gift or calling and it was misused and ultimately hurt many of God's people. Hmmmm...David comes to mind.

You are simplifying but I found two such acknowledgements one in each of JCOP and one in JCOPS. Here is an exerpt from each: JCOP: "Many dedicated people have assisted me in the preparation and publication of this book, a project which I have worked on periodically for two decades. However, in the early 1970's, I solicited the cooperation of Walter J. Cummins, Chairman of our Research department, to check my research thoroughly and critically concerning all the Gospel records starting with six days before the death of Jesus Christ to the day of Pentecost." .... VP continues by citing the various manuscripts and he specifically names these people as having assisted in the work: "Walter J. Cummins in Greek, Bernita Jess and Gary R. Curtis in Aramaic, Bo Reahard in Eastern customs, John Crouch in figures of speech, Chip Stansbury in history and documentation, and Michele C. Curtis in organizing and editing the material. Donna Randal, my research secretary for many years, helped immeasurably in evaluating the material and contirbuting to it. Karen W. Martin, my daughter, took primary responsibility for the editing of the manuscript. Rhoda Becker Wierwill, assisted by Joyce Ziegler, Marian Moczydlowski, and others in The Way International's Word Processing department, typed and retyped the manuscript ... Rosalie Rivenbark, Tom Plain and the staff..finalized the manuscript for publication. As is evident, this book is truly the result of a large team effort with years of research, study, checking, and rechecking. Others besides those named above have been consulted and have assisted in the production of this work." JCOPS: "This book Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed came into concretion with the assistance of the scholarship of a group of qualified research men and women. In August of 1979 a research team, consisting of Walter J. Cummins, John Crouch, Gary R. Curtis, Michele C. Curtis, Bernita Jess, Karen W. Martin, Donna Randall, Bo Rheahard, and Chip Stansbury, joined me in considering my original research work on the birth of Christ....Karen Wierwille Martin, along with Michele C. Curtis, reworked the research manuscript for its structure and clarity of communication. The manuscript in its numerous drafts was tirelessly retyped by our Word Processing department under the supervision of Joann Herman. Camille Kavasansky and Babara Geer proofread the manuscript...Tom Plain prepared the copy for publicationn...Rosalie F. Rivenbark oversaw production...Emogene Allen prepared (it) for marketing." These are of course "exerpts" as I do not feel like typing it all out. I am sure that I put in enough of the "acknowledgement" to corroberate Raf's memory. My books are dated JCOP "fourth impression 1981" and JCOPS "second impression 1983". Larry, I do not know what you might be looking at but perhaps you simply don't have the correct "impression". love ya

As I recall Eve means "mother of nations" or something like that and Adam merely means "man".

Way good "amok"! I think also the idea of allowing others to raise your children is a product of the times. There have always been those that required nannies, like royalty and the very affluent. But for average folks to engage a nanny or daycare was at one time an unheard of practice.

You can own a TV because it is not a window for the Adversary. You no longer feel compelled to say "Bless you" to everyone.

Absolutely! No argument there. Adultery would be more of a lack of love (and respect) for your neighbor where idolatry would be a lack of love for God. Well put!

I also don't recall being taught that the law defined sin. Although I am not certain that this is always the case. It certainly is in the majority of places that I have seen. However, the laws that were given to the Levites concerning the "forms" that needed to be observed for example when they prepared an animal sacrifice. I am not certain that breaking any of those would have been considered a "sin" in the same manner that sleeping with your neighbors wife is considered a sin. I totally agree about the prevailing attitude that the law was to be disregarded in favor of grace. More than once I heard "We can do anything because we're not under the law but under grace!" This was often quoted when one wanted to get drunk, do drugs or participate in promiscuous sex. As for the administrations...I really didn't like the way that VP cut it up (it was of course Bullingers work originally). It was much too restrictive. I look at the bible as a flowing thing with all things relating to other things.

Thank you "Sir" for answering my question about life after death. I had some more questions but so did others. Perhaps another time. It was a pleasure speaking with you. Love ya lots! P.S. "Have a good death" (how do you say that in Gaelic?)

I could be incorrect but I believe that she was refering to Romans 6, 7 & 8. The three chapters should be read together to get the full context of "sin nature" and "corruption of the flesh". If I am wrong Spot please correct me. You are absolutely correct that VP's teaching concerning all sins being equally bad in God's eyes was incorrect. There are degrees of sin and hence degrees of punishment or consequences. I am curious which verse you found in the OT that corroberates this standing. Love you sis and bros!

I have a transcript of the class. I'll check it out for you.

I will Thomas. :)

I'm glad you found us as well! Of course we all "know that we know" but upon occasion we do run amok! But we never say "I think" (Well maybe sometimes) Welcome to the Spot. I look forward to having some stimulating discussion with you.

I have some Takit stuff and a bunch of other stuff as well. So does Rainbowsgirl (I got a lot from her) and Pawtucket has some as well.

I absolutely will let you know. ;)

I must be in trouble then... Eagle- Thanks for the advice and info. I may have to go the self publish route anyway as my topic...well lets just say "contraversy" is puting it lightly. Got myself a friend that is a professional artist that is doing the cover art for me. As soon as it comes back I will begin the publishing process. I will look into some publishing companies first. I have to wait anyway, might as well learn something. Just for the record for any VP enthusiasts out there that may be reading this, my book will absolutely contradict everything and I do mean everything ole Vic and good ole boy Loy had to say on the subject. I didn't plan it that way but I would rather contradict man than God so I'm sticking by my research. But that's all I'm gonna say for now.

Alright here's my amok for the day...part of the punishment must have been passed down from Eve to othe women because women still have pain while giving birth.

I do have a copy and it is really good! But I will delay any comments or questions on the content until I have finished it. :) Howerver, I would like to know who did your cover art? It is quite clever. Did you get an artist to do it or did the publishing company do it? One other question did you self publish or were you picked up by a publisher? I only ask because I also have a book ready to publish and am still making that very important decision of how to publish. One thing that can be said for TWI, regardless of methods we were expected to do in depth research. What happened afterwards was often "unfortunate" (yes I am being kind) but if a person had half a brain in their head they quickly realized that researching the Bible was much more labor intensive than simply looking words up in a Lexicon or Concordance and making certain that you quoted everything VP had to say on the subject. "Making it your own" did not mean listening to the SNS tape five times. Your work is very good, you would be a credit to any "group". I am glad you spend some of your time with us. I look forward to finishing your book! Love ya bro. Eyes

Joe, It was wonderful talking to you again. You took me back a few years. I dont speak to any of the TWI folks here in Reno that I knew back then. I am glad that you are satisfied and comfortable with your religious choices. You sound happy and content. And this is a good thing. God Bless you Joe, Teresa

Jean- click on the link above. His website gives a synopsis and some exerpts. Eagle, what I have read of it is very good. I have yet been able to sit down and just read it but what I have read do not seem heretical to me. But then again I don't have "Way brain" anymore either. Found a cure for that problem. Love ya bro.