Eyesopen

As I've related, I was allowed to remain in the Corps, but always, always, with a cloud of "spiritual" suspicion over my head. I put one foot in front of the other, and did everything I was told, but things were never the same. I was even allowed to go LEAD my final year-and you know what-I had a great time. Did all the climbs, even the Australian repel (wasn't THAT a hoot). Strangely enough, I have absolutely no memory of getting there or getting back-I just remember the experience once I got there. But it was to be my last good time. A few months later, I was gone.

Top darlin', This just chaps my hide! You were "allowed to remain" in the Corps. What a wacked system! You write very well, I was very moved by your post. If you ever feel that there is something that I can do for you...just ask.

Also, I see how it can be easy to take the negatives and make them one's identity. The temptation is to use the negative experiences and let them define who you are and then wrap yourself in them like an old familiar blanket. Sometimes the pain is so intense and so familiar that it seems almost better to hold on to that pain because at least you know what that feels like.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I hope that the constant shouting from the rooftops of TWI's evils help even one person to see that the negatives they endured under a heavy-handed, greed-driven ministry will help them to finally throw that old blanket out.

Absolutely! Throwing that blanket out is really hard, but it is easier if you go get yourself a new one that's softer and better. The pain we have endured does help define us. As Top said it does help shape us into who we are. We cannot change our pasts, but we can use what we learned from them to help us build a better future.

The ability of the program to provide a positive experience rested in the hands of the staff which in many cases just tore apart people and took great care of others

Hence the problem with my LEAD experience.

(There is a moral (ok just a point) to this story):

Spouse: I just f*arted in your presence.

Me: Stop that. It makes me mad when you f*art in my presents.

A few days later, I became more enlightened. “Progressive revelation.”

Me: You know, f*art is just art with an “f” in front…

Now I am an art critic.

Nevermind. I’ll just throw the slimy tomatoes at myself…

Dear heart I love you with all my heart but...

Too Bad <_<

hahaha...you are adorable! :P

Maybe I should have been hanging out more with you spiritual "heavies" at HQ, or Emporia?? I always "felt" I was missing something !

There are some things that are better off missed...

You know you look very familiar somehow? Do you hangout in Paris, maybe in the Louvre??

I generally try not to "hang" out but upon occassion the shirt doesn't quite fit right...well things just happen...

Just wonder.

The kinds of "things" I'm looking for:

Did they require a person to sign a hold harmless agreement?

Not that I remember

Did you know the alleged high incidents of accidents and injury?

I didn't but I wasn't part of the 'in' crowd that had that information either.

Was the staff properly prepared to provide first aid / first responder type of assistance to people who got hurt?

That would be a big NO!

Did "they" properly describe the harshness of the experience, and possible injuries?

Not really, To a small extent they expressed that we might need all of the "harsh weather" equipment that we were taking and in that manner told us that it could be uncomfortable.

I forget this one.. but was it a corps REQUIREMENT?

As I recall, Yes I was led to believe that it was required for graduation unless you had a really good excuse. Believe it or not being blind was not an excuse. That just got you out of the hitchhiking part. I have a friend that is blind and in the corps. He was required to go LEAD.

What did you anticipate the experience to be like? Fun? gruesome? Dumb?

Fun. Daunting. I don't like hitchhiking...went against my common sense and what I had been taught. So I was really torn between obeying them or my parents upbringing (which I trusted far further than the Way).

How would you feel about doing it again?

I love to hike and mountain climb, but never again with them. They were uncaring and selfish.

So many questions..

I don't expect people to answer them all.. I would just like a general idea of what people were dealing with..

It's not a huge story because she would talk freely and I was uncomfortable because it was considered negative. I used to each lunch out with Rhoda on a lot of Sundays. She used to tell me things from the past that used to tick her off. At the time, I would NEVER repeat the things she said because it made me uncomfortable. She said VPW used to practice his teachings in the woods and that he always wanted to have a large ministry. She said he used to tick her off a lot. And she would especially get mad at VPW and Harry about finances. She said she used to be afraid of their business practices because of the quesionable leagality of them and expressed her frustration at them. But they didn't listen to her. I was afraid to ask more details as a good little wayfer back then. I just let her talk. I nevrr intended to tell anyone. But now that I'm out, I wished I would have asked more questions. It's been a while, so I will have to think back to see if I remember more specifics. When I do, I will let you guys know.

Well my coffee mug is full now and I'm happily stuffing my mouth with danish so you can think as long as both hold out...well maybe a bit longer. It's very interesting.

It is symbolic of purity - starting the sabbath pure, washing away the impurities of the previous week.

**********oops, this is Abi posting***********

Ah yes...that's right! I remember that this is where they got the saying, "Wash my hands of the whole thing..." That Pontius Pilot used.

sorry to be so ignorant but what is shout out??

thanks!

Chatroom thingy for everyone

We will have a show on Sunday. The start time will be at 5:00 pm EASTERN

It should be a fun time.

Who are we gonna grill....ummmm...I mean, hear from this week?

HERE'S ANOTHER ONE: Do you think they (VPW & Pals in this case) were actually very consciously trying to create an environment of fear by focusing so heavily on possession? I mean that crap was woven in pretty heavily long before I started hearing that I would turn into the wonderful greasespot that I am now right? DTA was very pre-lcm...

Welcome Waytrix (love the Avatar)

It is common practice for cults to use debil sprits as a fear factor. They use them as a duel or triple purpose, to keep people in line for fear of being possessed or slapped down and as an empowerment factor. For those that are "following the rules" or the elite in the organization, like the Advanced class grads or Way Corps these "special" people can see, identify and cast out debils because they are more spiritual than everyone else. Don't you want to be just like 'em?

Notta! What are you thinking woman? You drop a bomb like that and don't tell the rest of the story...shame on you. Now be a good waitress and refill everyones coffee, bring a plate of danish and sit down. Now tell the rest of the story. :D

Woo Hoo! Do you see that? The big 50...0 post! Sneeking up on Exie!

Welcome to the Spot! Congratulations! Most new folks lurk for a while and read whats available here then decide what to do with the information. Some folks decide to open a can of worms and see what falls out...but you my friend have opened a bag of scorpions.

So did you read anything here before you decided to post or did you just throw that out there to see what kind of response you would get?

I at least lurked for a while and read everything before I opened my big mouth. Now they can't get me to shut up....

Eventually the Rabbi appeared with two other men and the prayers and meal started. First the song welcoming in the Sabbath, then the Kiddush (wine). After that there is a ritual handwashing, which they were very kind in explaining to me, without me having to ask.

I know that you just dropped that in there so I could ask...right?

That's awsome Abi. As you know, thanks to you I have been checking out their website as well and have been receiving emails and newsletters from them. I have been looking into classes as well. So I am really interested in your experiences. You will be wonderful as always.

I love you!

Woops! Sorry Tonto -- I'm lysdexic at times.

Hehehe That was hella cute DMiller!

I gotta say that I agree with those that say "When bad stuff started to happen, they should have modified the parameters." I don't deny that some folks had a great time out LEAD. I was not one of them. In fact if you want to read about my LEAD experience here is the link:

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...mp;#entry323704

Hope that works for ya. I don't have much more to say on the subject.

Doreen, welcome to the Spot...glad to have you.

I learned many things from PFAL and the ones that you mentioned were some of them, but I also learned some not so positive from my experience in my first PFAL class (since that is your question I will stick with just the foundational class) I think everyone learned something in the class, just not all the same things. We are after all individuals and what one gets out of a class another will not get the same thing. But I am certain that you are seeing that already with the few posts that you have already received.

Keep the good, toss the bad and try to understand the experience in light of your own personal life and walk with God. You are after all the only one that can determine if what was "good" or "bad" has any validity in your life. So keep or toss...your choice.

The biggest thing I learned in PFAL was that Jesus Christs atonement covered ALL my sins not just the ones I could remember. that was a tremendous load lifted from my shoulders. {Still remember VPW making all those X's on the board}

Understanding this item also had a huge impact on my life. Still does.

Exactly, T-bone. If we cannot sense/recognize our connectedness to the beautiful world God created, how will we ever truly recognize our connectedness and completeness with God? Likewise, if we reject what God has created, do we not reject some portion of God as well?

And boundaries, yes, definitely healthy boundaries given by God so that we truly can love our neighbors.

Funny how Romans 1 talks about how believers walked away from God and their first "sin" was that they had stopped thanking Him for all that He has done. They had stopped being able to "see" what He had done and then it is pointed out that all they had to do was look around as God is seen in everything that He has created.

I have often thought that the OT laws were more guilds than laws intended to dole out punishment. God would rather we learn how to be courteous and social and loving towards one another and towards Him of course.

Trying to practice it is boggling. I can't anyway - there are no Kosher stores around here. But, I like understanding the meaning behind it and incorporating things here and there when I can, as a reminder to myself.

I think one would have to live like the Amish to practice it correctly and consistantly. But the heart behind it is wonderful! I always had the impression that it was cruel to the animals, but now I understand the love begind it. The animal is sacrificing its life for you. It is only right that we should truly honor that sacrifice. Amazing...time to rething a few things again. Why does this always happen when I talk to you? Hmmmm??

If one practices this law, as with all the laws of keeping kosher, it requires you to put much thought into your food preparation. The result of that thought is a respect and thankfulness, far far beyond the simple repetitive "blessing over a meal." There is a real sense of connectedness to the earth, the animals and vegetation that are here to sustain us, and to God for designing and creating the whole thing. When you have this sense of connectedness, as you develop it and build upon it, you have more care for (emotionally, spiritually, and via physical action) the things around you, out of genuine love and respect instead of out of legalism, coersion, obligation, etc.

I'm so glad that you brought this up Abi. The whole idea of "kosher" has always boggled my brain. Now it makes some sense. Thanks.

Hey! Half a brain is better than no brain at all.....;)

I resemble that remark!

Oh geez! Now I'll never get any sleep....;)

You can bug me anytime, Dear.

Oh...just let the left side of your brain sleep for a while! That should be plenty....hehehe

Dooj, that was awsome! I'm gonna listen to that one again, and if I have more questions I'm gonna bug you...ok?

That was great discussion by all, very illuminating! Thanks!

Darn. Only at GS would I find out my true identity is a piece of furniture. And probably full of feathers and sand...

No feathers or sand, just stuffing and cat fur...it is called FURniture

Just be gentle....;)

Oh of course...gentle is my middle name.

So really is it 4:30 EST or 5:30 EST? Please say 5:30, 'cause then I can make it on time. Or even 5:00. That makes it 2:00 her on the west side.

It gave us an identity. One we thought was worth all the effort. At the same time there was enormous fear of leaving (get possessed etc). Upon leaving, well, we didn’t know who we were anymore. It wasn’t just the doctrine was false. It was necessary to rebuild and rediscover ourselves from the ground up. For me at least, all the way down to every thought that crosses my mind. Still: because I know I still have twi crap in my head…Out darn spot…

Yep, the harmony was false, so was “likeminded.” This way was the only way.

And the deeper I dig, the more bizarre it looks to me.

Eyes: your explanation about commitment really makes sense.

Our identity revolved for a great many people around our nametags. I have kept every last one of them and I am puting them in a shadow box with the caption "Remember your past, remember the lessons you learned and use those memories to help you build a better future." My identity is now in Christ Jesus where it belongs, where it belonged all along. But the progressive nametags remind me how I got there. I am who I am and I really dont care who knows it anymore. I've been beaten, flogged, humiliated, belittled, repressed and down trodden but I will never again deny Christ! Never again!

I still get bad way brain thoughts but I beat them down as fast as they come up...or as fast as I recognize them. But as Kathy said not all of them are bad. We were taught some useful stuff and even bad stuff can be used as a comparison. As children of God we are required to "prove these things to see if they be so". It is no different with TWI stuff, we just need to prove it, see if it is good. Toss the cr@p.

The harmony of TWI was false but the premise was good. Too bad it could not be executed with real people.

Dog gone it this couch is just spitting coins this morning...got enough for a large fries and a milk shake now!

Beloved, now are we the Sofas of God.

Bow to the sofa alter....