Eyesopen

You know vp didnt exactly lie when he said that it was the word that hasnt been known since the first century. I mean how many of Jesus' followers believed that 'believing = receiving'? That little piece of trash hadn't been known since the first century...at least I dont think it had. True it is a crock of you know what but it wasnt known. So I guess you could say that he wasnt lying...just not telling the truth. :blink:

That's just crazy...but it unfortunately happens all the time. I think on the part of the person that handles the gun everyday it is complacency fueled by familiarity. Not that this is an excuse...there is no excuse and there arent enough 'I'm sorry's' in the universe that will make it all better. As for the topic at hand...yes I think some of those folks that packed back in the day or even today are unhinged enough to fire the darn thing. And some of them might even have a twinge of guilt afterwords. (Just a twinge mind you.)

So good to hear from you Ex10. Such devestation is such a pain in the tail and isnt it always at times like this that we find out that the insurance we thought we had isnt what we actually have? Let us know if you need anything that we can provide.

I found it to be horribly flat... <_<

You can do that? Crazy! Thanks Temple Lady for the info. It's also good to see other Texans on line and checking in, so to speak to let us worryers know what's going on and how they faired. My thoughts and prayers have been with all of them since before this thing hit...and I will continue to pray for you all.

That just sounds like another invitation to a food fight...anyone game?

True dat! But last year the price before taxes was $150 so this one is a much better deal. Tom, no it has no complimentary breakfast...I guess I'll just have to crash the party at your hotel.

For those still looking for a hotel room...the Hilton Garden Hotel is only $84 before taxes with a AAA discount and it's right along that row of hotels that everyone is staying at.

Garth, thanks for both links. They're very informative and the one on Arians gives a less 'religiously' charged history. Puting the two together I may come up with something closer to the actual truth. Gotta admit the twi doctrine that the dead are dead really was a tough pill to swallow. But then again I was raised Roman Catholic and never really gave much thought to what I believed about the dead until twi brought it up. I'm still a bit torn on the subject, given the biblical references and all...

You are correct the Arians were one of the 'factions' that were part of the church in the second through fourth centuries and beyond but they stopped being quite so vocal after the death of Constantine who was an Arian follower for most of his life, rather he favored the Arian interpretation only actually 'becoming' a Christian on his death bed. He ran interferrence for them quite often. Before that Bishop Arian and a huge coalition of his followers were in and around Alexandria preparing for their big meeting in Rome where they would meet with the orthodox faction so that they could vote. Something conveniently delayed them and the orthodox faction did not wait in fact they held that particular vote first. This subterfuge caused a huge rift in the already divided church as the Arians didnt take it lying down. But as I said they lost a lot of support when they lost Constantine. And not long after his death public opinion turned against them sharply when the Nicean creed was 'enforced'; anyone professing anything other than what it said were considered heretics and subject to execution. This however did not slow down the Gnostics who also worked from within the Catholic church but they were quite a bit sneekier than the vocal Arians. But in the end they had to run for their lives and ended up burying most of their major books in a jar in the desert to preseve them from the fires and book burnings that Rome was sponsoring. I can truly understand the logic behind this statement and on the surface I can agree with it. But I think that the fact that Jesus gave his life freely as a sacrifice was a true statement of his love for those that he did not know. The fact that his Father stood by and allowed him to do so without wigging out shows me how much he loved and trusted his son. Not to mention the fact that God is God and he can raise anyone from the dead. So he really had nothing to worry about. The fact that Jesus walked out on a limb knowing that he could die forever makes him a more real savior to me. To think that he was really God and wasnt really risking anything because God can't die...just has never worked for me. I was looking for other 'cults' that taught Jesus as something other than God. I found this: http://www.eaec.org/cults/unitarianuniversalism.htm http://contenderministries.org/unitarianuniv.php http://www.charlestrombleyministries.com/J...the%20Cults.pdf I also found this cute little ditty: "A cult is a church down the street from your church." Anon

Good questions all Twinky but I'm afraid that I have no answers. I was very guarded in my paper. I said what I figured that they wanted to hear and nothing more than I had to say. I remember being told by someone that it needed to show some sort of deliverance from something big. That was (as I was told) so that we could better empathize with someone in big trouble. Kind of along the lines of a cop being pepper sprayed or tased before they are allowed to carry the thing. Funny but we dont have to be shot before we carry a gun. Hmmm...not that I'm complaining mind you. :unsure:

Geisha even though you didnt answer me directly after re-reading your posts I found my answer here in this comment. I believe that Tom pointed out that this 'unanimous' belief of Jesus was not always unanimous. In fact they had a meeting and a vote and conveniently held the vote when most of the opposing faction could not be present. Once they had come to a conclusion and 'voted' in their version of Jesus they summarily shunned, ostricated and often killed the remaining members of the opposition. You might also find it interesting to know that there was more than one faction that in fact did not believe that Jesus was God. So you see Christianity did not always have the 'same' Jesus of which you speak. It was also pointed out by Tom that Jesus' own followers didnt even know who he was until God told them. Now mind you I'm not making an argument for or against Jesus being God, I'm just saying that there is a lot more to the story here and a lot of history that you may or may not be aware of. I'm also saying that maybe it's just a bit over my head and like T-Bone I'm gonna believe that God and /or Jesus Christ are big enough to overlook some honest confusion and misconception from us mere mortals. BTW thanks T-Bone I dont know about 'wisdom' but I thought that this needed to be said again: Great mental picture here! Chockfull could you provide us with a link? That sounds intriging.

Heehee that brought a smile

Maybe that's why they have multiple calves at a time. Someone has to feed the bears, we're not supposed to... even at the zoo.

I'm honestly not sure what I would have done in that situation. It could have been a hoot if you were in a 'pull their legs' frame of mind.

You make a very good point here, one that I believe Oak was also making earlier before the 'definition of cult' discussion. But in my mind this brings up yet another 'hotly' debateable issue...was vp a false prophet? If he was then does it not follow that his 'charisma and ability to hold a firm hand of control' could have been part of 'his' true masters plan? I realize that this opens a huge can of worms and I am not debating either way at this point. I am just pointing out that 'satanic blindness' could be introduced by a human element. I am also curious what church it is that you represent. It interests me because if it is such a big church or as you intimate all of Christianity they why does the definition of 'cult' in the dictionary not reflect their specific point of view? I would think that they would at least be a foot note or a reference. But Encarta has this for a definition: cult [ kult ] (plural cults)noun Definition: 1. religion: a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false, and directed by a charismatic, authoritarian leader 2. religious group: a group of people who share religious or spiritual beliefs, especially beliefs regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false Notice that it does not say 'what' beliefs, but it does point out that the beliefs are 'regarded by others as...' Does this make those beliefs wrong? The main factor that makes a cult a cult is the way that it is run and the type of person that runs it. The words 'misguided, unorthodox, extremest and false' are a huge part. Sorry Dot, I know that I'm off topic but this kind of bugs me, and I am just looking for a simple answer.

matilda, that was a very eerie account! You are quite the writer...I could almost feel the breeze from the water and sand between my toes. Gotta love the way Angels just take control of a situation and steer it in the right direction. It is so good to hear that despite the focus of twi and other cult groups being on the negative there was and is God's presence among us helping us out when we least expect it. Who knows what may have happened had they not intervened in our lives when they did.

Unlike you the cult/church that I was raised in didnt teach me about Jesus. But I had taken some time (not much mind you) to come to my own conclusions based upon what they did say and what the Bible said. But when I got to twi I didnt really have a personal relationship with him and these many years later I have to consciously throw him into the mix when I'm talking to God. When I left twi I put down my bible because I believed that I was unworthy to read it. I was after all possessed and unsalted as well as a covenant breaker. What right did I have to read His word or speak to Him? My Bible always sat on the small table top podium that I had purchased for it. But other than dust it occassionally I never picked it up to read. Then in 2001 I found out that LCM had been kicked out of the Corps and I reexammined my belief system, especially the part about forgiveness and righteousness and I picked up my Bible to read. It was slow at first...I would hear the voices of vp and lcm in my head 'expounding' on one verse or another and it was difficult to hear the words themselves through their ranting. But eventually the voices quieted and I could 'hear' the words of the Bible as i read them. The further in time that I get from twi the less that old teachings or teachers invade my thinking. I read more than I once did and I read it for pleasure! That was something that I never learned in twi. They talked about reading for pleasure but when did I have time? I can still summon the voices if I want to hear or remember what their particular take on some thing was, mostly so I can discern how not to interpret a verse but usually I just let the Bible speak for itself. I have found that although it is not perfect in its present form it is not necessary to study our tails off with a dozen different lexicons and such to understand what God wants us to understand. He is perfectly capable of helping the eyes of our understanding become enlightened without the extra books, but we do need to ask and be open to the answer.

Whew! Sorry for the delay in responding Chas...the last few days have been very busy. I think that your friend was probably correct. As I recall God or Angels under His direction (or His Son's) dont need to give you a brand new Mercedes to get you to work everyday. More often than not they do things that are much simpler, like give a lost hitchiker a ride or push someones car out of a snow bank or feed a bunch of hungry kids. Certainly the fact that it's not a Mercedes doesnt detract from the blessing or the joy that the intervention brings.

That is highly possible and on that same note many are probably in other 'public servant' places where they can come and go unseen.

Satanic blindness, what an interesting concept. I also had read those verses and thought that they did not pertain to me. But I like so many others put my Bible aside for many years after leaving twi. After all I no longer needed to read it I had all the answers. But when I did pick it up again the scriptures unfolded to me like a wonderful exotic flower in all of its glorious colors and grandure. The one thing that really hit home for me was something that when I was just a 'babe' in twi I had been pondering and just beginning to understand and that was the body of Christ and how it worked together. I had come full circle from the days before the hurtful 'biblical research and teaching ministry' to the reclaiming of my life and of my true sonship rights after twi. Each time I pick up the book and read something more of the inner workings of the body or how something else actually relates to it or leads up to it, is revealed to me. The Bible really is a gloriously wonderful book and God does help you understand it if you ask or are open to Him. I am so very glad that you found a way so that you could reach into the book and get some good out of it again. Where did you find this about Satanic blindness. I can google it but I would like to know what you are reading from.

Well we all know (experiencially) that twi was very good at streeeeeetchhhinggg verses of the bible to make it say what they wanted all the while telling us that 'others' did this very same thing. You know I didnt ask my Angel for his ID...but that was because I was too busy flapping my gums at him. Poor soul! He had to have pulled the short stick! Sometimes I wonder what it is like seeing the world and mankind as a whole from their point of view. They are charged with watching over us...do they make more rescues like so many of you have described than say a hundred years ago? Are they jealous of us or feel sorry for us? Do they like their jobs? What will they do when this world is done away and the next begins? VP made it sound like they were lesser beings than us but I think that they are just different beings than us. Ok I'll stop thinking out loud now.

Woo Hoo! Look we got moved! Is that a good thing?

I just love how they used this tiny piece of scripture to harm the body of Christ. They were also famous for using the ole 'mark and avoid' and the ever popular 'dust off your feet' clips to harm the body. Red flags and alarms should have been going off like gang busters over this stuff. But even if we didnt agree many of us were trapped by our own twi 'beliefes' that you do not question the revelation of the man of Gawd. It was a horrible twisted circle that made most of us unwilling and often unknowing co-conspirators to the mental raping and destructive abuse of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Speaking as a cop...that jackfoot gives good cops a bad name! I see no excuse for that type of abhorrant behavior from a "public" servant.