Eyesopen

Catcup-Lady, you have no idea how much you just helped me. Not only with myself but with a dear friend as well. Through the tears in my eyes and the quiver in my voice I say "Thank you, so very much for taking the time and the heat to speak out here in this place."

I WROTE THIS.

I hope you don't mind but I'm going to print it out to share with my friend. Let me know if this is not acceptable.

God first

Beloved Eyesopen

God loves us my dear friend

Thank you Eyesopen I knew I had a enlarge heart but she see it really big thanks

you are a blessing to be around my dear friend

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

Roy darlin' you know I just love flirting with you! :D

Larry don't use the pink pink...cant see the bloody stuff! I'm getting old...be kind!

Eyes: when you say "the basement" do you mean the doctrinal area, or GSC? Still figuring out the lingo... also, why does my moniker say "wants to sit at the counter"? I didn't write that and I can't seem to change that. And what does "do I have kids or did I read it in a thread" mean?

Hey AD- The basement refers to "doctrinal" or any other forum located at the bottom of the page like the "soap opera" forum. If GS is anything it is "left field" or beyond but not the basement. That implies that they actually let us stay in the same house or that we would want to stay. NOT! This is our little house far removed from TWI. And we like it that way.

As for your little "wants to sit at the counter" problem. That is a default line. If you want to change it follow this path...click "my controls" at the top of the page (right hand side). Then on the left hand side of that page is a list of stuff, click on "edit profile information" it's near the bottom. Then at the top in the middle is a box identified as "Custom Member title" click inside the box and write what you want. But only what shows in the box will show under your name. It will not see anything after it starts scrolling. So keep it short and sweet.

I only started the thread because it would be nice to see something more "positive" come out of all this history of pain. Besides, creating a "book" thread could be therapeutic as well as helping people to maybe move on...?

Some people (women) I think might be here for other reasons than just hashing over their past experiences of "rape"? If after 10 or 20 years it's still an emotional problem, they need a doctor and a meds review. Because it's over, and the sands are running through the glass. It's time to pick up the pieces and move forward. <_<

I can feel I'm treading on thin ice here, there's no offense intended.

I got your meaning Bumpy. I was just wondering if you had heard the podcast. You must admit it was a bit coincidental. But they do happen. Quite often around me for some reason. Anyway....I think that it would be good for the stories to be told and put onto hard copy to preserve for others to learn from. It could be healing for the authors as well. Sometimes it helps to get it out...and if you may help someone else in the process then so much the better.

My prayers are with you PB.

Thank you, Larry. Now let's give it a try. What do you know, it worked. Sorry, all, I'm being childish.

.

I remember when I figured out how to make the smileys open up. I used so many in a post that the puter said I had to trim it down a bit...now that my dear Jean is childish. It's fun learning new things.

First post -

Beliefs:

God is god (and I'm not).

Jesus is lord (I try not to be).

I am a child of the living God - by SEED ("after it's kind") - and so one day (in the resurrection) I will be holy, even as HE is holy.

There ain't no arriving til HE arrives.

LR

Great answers Linda! Welcome to the Spot!

EyesOpen, I'm glad your eyes are open. Though we disagree about a couple of the items, I've come to enjoy reading all of your posts that I come across. You're honest and sometimes very clever (Did David write Psalm 23? You don't know, but you like it regardless!). Your take on the sabbath was particularly appreciated.

That's ok I dont mind disagreeing, makes for a more lively conversation. Especially here in the basement. Up in the "other" forums it could cause trouble but down here it just means that we have more to research and talk about. You will also find that my head is not made of granite (although some might say that it is full of rocks!) I can change my mind...hence my tag line.

Most folks that hang out down here are fairly easy to talk to and will at least give an honest debate and not a heated argument. Abi and Roy both give us wonderfully diverse points of view. Abi gives us a lot of history and background as well as heart behind much of what we were taught in twi to be "only for our learning" and not really given much time. Roy gives us a great deal of "outside" the box thinking that really gets the gray matter moving. He also graces us with a heart as big as Manhatten and a depth of perception that at times staggers me.

Both Mr. Ham and CMan give us all a simplicity that keeps us all from getting too lofty minded and help us stay in perspective. CMan is usually quite direct where Ham likes to run around the tree a few times before he truly catches the nut. Both make honest, profound statements that easily cut right to the heart of things.

Lots of folks hang out here in the basement. Most are seeking answers to their questions. Many dont really know that they had a question until someone brings it up. All add something to every thread that they choose to get involved with. And mind you...here it is "involved" when you post to a thead. This is not like some forums where you can just put in .02 cents and walk away. Here it behoves you to get involved in whatever thread that strikes your interest. We all learn more that way.

I like this thread. I like the time you put into formulating the questions. You will fit in just fine here. :)

That pretty much describes the experience of a lot of women who went in to TWI and were later chewed up and spit out.

It is a sad truth. Unfortunately; many were litterally chewed up and spit out. I just had my leg chewed on in comparison. I have been reading your posts in another thread and I must say I am so very sorry for you and your entire family. Thank you for sharing with us all so that we may all come to a better understanding of TWI and VP.

Eyes, I listened for about 45 min. & fell asleep at the counter. I'm 6 hours later on the time clock here. Why don't you just fill me in on the finer points...

I only mention it because a "anthology" style book was discussed. But the discussion mostly revolved around the "stories" that are told by some Spotters. We discussed the benefit that some of the victory style stories could help others and that it would be longer lasting if it were written someplace other than cyberspace.

My posting of #312768 was a little entertaining for some? I just think maybe all the agony of repetition could be used in some form of moving forward? I know some just want to keep rewinding the same thread, but even for me after 7 months at GS it gets a little tiresome hearing it over and over.

I'm sure I will take some flack for that comment! <_<

Did you listen to last nights Talkshoe? If not you might want to.

Yeah, he didn`t do anything worse n David or solomon...I guess you make my point....he behaved as badly as the man of the flesh that galatians described...oops! We are told right there that he will have no inheritance in the kingdom of God...and I therefor think that any opinion he has on spiritual matters are highly suspect....

That, right there was absolutely wonderful! Way to catch somebody sticking their foot in their mouth!

T = true F = false U = unsure

Adam and Eve are historical figures, who lived 5000 - 7000 years ago. T/F/U

I think that they were real or representations of the real thing. When? I don't know. Does it matter?

Jesus of Nazareth uniquely represented the Creator as His Son. T/F/U

True, His Son.

The risen Jesus Christ is my Lord. T/F/U

True

The Book of Job is allegorical. That is, it attempts to explain human suffering using fictional characters. T/F/U

I'm inclined to believe that this was an allegory. Perhaps there was once a man named Job that had some horrible stuff happen to him. But the point of the story is more important than the man.

The disciple John, one of "the twelve", wrote 5 Books: John, 1John, 2John, 3John, and Revelation. T/F/U

Not certain on this...jury is still out.

Paul wrote Hebrews. T/F/U

Once again... the jury is still out.

Moses wrote Genesis. T/F/U

I have to say "No" on this. There is just too many things that point to another conclusion.

David wrote the 23rd Psalm. T/F/U

Don't know. I like it regardless.

Paul's doctrine of "by faith alone" contradicts James' doctrine, as recorded in the Book of James. T/F/U

Don't think so. I think that their "doctrines" can be understood together if one took the time to really research it honestly.

Four were crucified with Jesus. T/F/U

Don't know and frankly don't care. It has no impact on my belief in Christ.

I speak in tongues in my private prayer life. T/F/U

Sometimes, when the mood strikes me.

God loves homosexuals. T/F/U

True. God so loved the "world". Not just certain people.

Homosexuality is not a sin. T/F/U

True. It is not.

God does not hate. T/F/U

True. God is love and in Him is no darkness at all.

1 Cor. 12 says that all nine "manifestations" of the spirit are the privilege of everyone who has been "born again" by confessing Jesus as their lord, and believing God raised him from the dead. (When combined with Romans 10:9 and other scriptures.) T/F/U

True. But not necessarily all nine as TWI taught. Further examination of the chapter indicates that each person may operate any one or combination as they desire and have the ability and understanding to do so.

The prayer of a believer can move God to do something He would not otherwise have done. T/F/U

False. God already knows our hearts and He knows the future. So what you pray for is primarily for your individual blessing, not necessarily to get something done. Not that things don't happen when you pray. But God had already determined that it would happen. Bottom line our prayers do not dictate His actions.

Mormonism, Catholicism, and JW’s are perversions of Christianity. T/F/U

Not at all. Different religions meet different needs in people. It is foolish to think that any one religion has the all truth.

Some of Jesus’ teaching is impossible to carry out. T/F/U

False. We would not be admonished to walk as he walked if it could not be done. The question is are you up to the sacrifice that it takes?

"Sin consciousness" is not in the believer’s self-interest. T/F/U

Unsure. Like Abi, I am uncertain of what you want here.

The canon is closed. Another authentic letter of Paul will never surface. T/F/U

Although I have a lot of respect for the early "Church Fathers" that compiled the canon and thankful that they bothered, I also think that they deliberately left stuff out. So despite the fact that they "closed" the canon does not in anyway indicate to me that there is nothing out there that could not added. If an authentic letter from one of the Apostles surfaced I would have no objection to adding it to the canon.

There are authentic apostles and prophets of God living and ministering today. T/F/U

True. God's people are still in need of the gift ministries.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that he "must be born again," what did he mean?

I'm not in a position right now to review that section of scripture. So I withold my comment until I can.

What are your thoughts on the Fourth commandment (not to work on the sabbath)?

God took a day off from His labors. He set the example of how we should also look at work. More and more today I see news articles about people making a mess out of their emotional lives by never taking a vacation. Stress in America is at an all time high, so is prescription drug use for all manner of things caused by....stress. God took a day off, He ordered his people to take a day of rest. Regardless of whether or not a person believes in the OT or the Bible at all, it is still healthy to take a day of rest.

so if women wear both, are they ...?

Hmmmm.....could be.... :P

Abi- That just makes me sick with anger!

Guts? Cool, I can *prove* I have guts, but will behave myself for a change and not post the URL to the picture I had the surgeon take of the foot section of my small bowel he removed that the Crohn's Disease had destroyed.

I got in TWI at 16 years of age and I left 20 years later still mentally at the same stage. It's taken many years of hard work to 'grow up'. I still don't think like most people my age who were never in a cult. At least I am up to around 25 to 30 now emotionally and growing more towards where I should be at my 50 years of physical age every day. I think that was one of the worst things TWI did to me was to keep me from growing mentally in age thru the years, so when I got out it was very hard for me to communicate with people my own age. I still have many friends half my age that I relate to great and some my own age I just don't understand at all at times, but then they grew up outside of TWI. Once I explain it to them, they then do realize what I've been thru and will help me to understand them, which in turn helps me grow up more mentally to my real age. I'm sure there's plenty of you out there who've experienced or are going thru the same thing.

Isn't it wonderful to be out finally and be able to say things like 'no' or 'I don't feel that way about the subject at all', without condemning ourselves. Feels good to stand up on our own two feet and speak our minds, like we should have been able to do our entire lives, but we had that stolen from us by TWI when we were still in.

Ok first off...yuk! That was more than I needed to hear this early in the morning as I still drink my first cup of Diet Pepsi and choke down some Pringles. Ahhh... Breakfast of Champions!

I didn't so much come out the 17 year old that went in. I came out realizing that the 17 year old had been murdered, and all of her innocence and trust had died with her. I was hard and cold and yet at the same time afraid and so very lonely. It has taken me years to resurrect the inner joy that gave that 17 year old girl her boyancy and her vigor. But I kept the backbone that I had so carefully fashioned from my "training" and experiences. I just made it real, and not dependant upon anything except me.

Yes, I love that we can all speak our minds and feel free to disagree. We are all members in particular and we are all members of one body. We are individuals that are all part of one whole. God does love infinate diversity. And oh boy are we diverse!

Well our twigs at home were not the best as our TC's were mostly just glorified SOB's but on the WOW field our family coordinator was a gem. Let me tell you a story:

We didn’t require people to dress up for twig, only that they were clean and presentable. I should qualify that last comment. Lars was very comfortable with himself. He would often strip down to only wearing a pair of shorts. And I do mean “ONLY”. One time he and I were sitting in the living room chatting when he uncrossed his legs and planted both feet on the floor. The separation between them was considerable and he was leaning forward shaking his hand up and down with his finger pointing as he made a “point”. When he leaned back against the back of the chair to laugh at my response his “package” dropped partially out of his shorts. At just that time Grant was entering the room from the bedrooms and Sandy was coming in from the kitchen. She had a direct line clear view shot of Lars. “Lars! What are you doing?” She exclaimed half startled and half humorously. Neither Lars nor I had any idea what she was talking about, when Grant chimed in, “Yah Lars, are you trying to show off or something?” Well at that comment and a small nod of Sandy’s head and some pointed looks we both noticed what all the commotion was about. But instead of any of the expected responses Lars simply tucked it all back into his shorts and continued his conversation with me. This action caused both Grant and Sandy to simply lose it, they were laughing so hard that they had to lean on one another to keep from falling. But this brought about the rule that Lars had to wear underwear at fellowships. And no, she didn’t care that it was so hot his balls were sticking together, he would just have to suffer for a couple of hours.

Good Times!

Wow, like I didn't get physical. Just well, lost my temper. Hope no one gets really violent if one of those idiots does what they were doing to the rest of us.

Let's just call them an idiot and go home.

Or as Patricia Heaton would say to Ray Romano:

"I'm tired. Could you just call yourself an idiot and let it go at that?"

I dont know why not...now that we dont get reproved for jokingly calling ourselves a name.

I know that I really enjoyed chatting with everyone there. It felt like old home week for me. All I was lacking was a cold Pepsi. Sharing our hearts together on any subject was uplifting and I too came away with a sense of better understanding.

The stories were awesome! And it was absolutely wonderful to finally say "hello" face to face so to speak with Rascal. Thank you Paw for having made that available.

So sorry Roy, to hear of your Uncle. Enjoy your time with him. We will miss you and hold a seat for you next week. :wub:

Kathy dear....you are not going to join us? :huh:

All of the God-breathed Word is of power.

Forgive me Deciderator, but once again I don't understand exactly what you mean by this comment. I know that it is only one out of many but it just doesn't make sense to me. Would you mind explaining it? Perhaps its just a typo. Not being sarcastic here..so please dont respond that way.

CMan has a good idea. I like the topic in Dot's thread.

Funny, but in many verses the Greek word Skotos was used for darkness. It means an active darkness if you read up on it throughout. Darkness is not "still" it has activity.

Anyway, how hard has it been for you to find "healthy" friends?

It has been VERY difficult for me. Perhaps, church does not have all the answers - maybe it is a good place to look. I do not know. I want to talk about how great God is, miracles, answers to prayers and excitement. Recently, one poster and his wife (who are new) reminded me of how great that kind of relationship is - as they are those kind of people.

I miss the singing, the talk and excitement about God, the hope and a variety of things I used to have regularly.

I do not want to fellowship with darkness, nor do I want to become darkness

Funny for me I missed just listening to others talk...about anything. It was like having a family reunion three times a week. It didn't matter if they were talking about God, it was understood that He was just a part of our lives and all of our decisions would be based upon His will. (At least as we knew it)

But real friends in the Way...not too many but that was partially by my choice. I'm a social person but I don't normally have too many close friends anyway. I did kind of isolate myself that last several years, but again choice. Alone is not bad. Lonely is bad. You can have one without the other. Both ways.

There is lots of light out there in the world and even the dimmest candle will dispel darkness. So finding the light is not as hard as it sounds. And this is my personal opinion and I realize that I do not know you but I don't think that you can become darkness sweetie.

I'm offended! ;) You didn't mention me...

Seriously, I think you covered all the bases.

Do you remember the name of that movie with Michael Douglas where he finally has it and goes nuts...? I thought of that movie when you were describing reactions. - Granted, that was a real severe and real delayed reaction but it still describes what can happen.

"Falling Down"- Great movie! And yes it describes this type of thing exactly and as you say a bit on the extreme side.

But don't be offended my little chameleon, just melt back into the walls after you make sure the kool-aid and cookies are on the table.

Lol. The next time I bump into someone I will declare them to be a relative....

Great post, Eyes.

OMG I don't mean for you to get violent!!

I know exactly what Eyes Open is talking about. In retrospect I looked back and considered myself a way weenie. Then one day, I couldn't stand the abuse anymore, and it kind of exploded with a vengeance. I didn't hurt anyone. Just stood up to the "bullies" all at once and perhaps stunned a lot of people. I kind of regret the forceful nature I used on one of them. But I don't know if I could help it or not.

As soon as I left, my life took off like a rocket.

My friend that is the funniest description I have heard in a long time! I nearly spit my tea on my brand new keyboard!

I agree with Exie, You did fine.

This thread makes me think of the law in physics that states "For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction." Throughout our lives including the part that involved twi we are continually "reacting" to something. Be it a simple "jostle" while getting on the subway or a bump in the road that screws up your front end alignment. We each react differently to any situation. Even if the situation were exactly the same for each of us none of our reactions would be identical. But none of us experienced "exactly" the same thing so our reactions were that much more diverse. In addition, none of us percieve the action done to us (or around us) in the same manner. Hence our "reaction" of said action will be affected by our perception. For example if a person were to be accidently bumped while walking down the street by another person they might take personal affront to the accident and start yelling at the offender, while another person may simply apologize for the bump as if it were their fault. We might in turn say one person is wrong and the other is overreacting, or we might say something else. This brings us to Einstein's theory of relativity. What one person perceives as the truth another will not see it that way because of their individual perspectives and perceptions of reality.

The point is each of us were given situations in twi that we reacted to. The ultimate outcome of all of those actions/reactions is the individual people that we are today and our individual perception of twi. Oldies sees twi in a good light, Exie does not. They were each presented with seperate sets of actions for which they seperately reacted and then perceived the outcomes differently. Is one right and one wrong? Some say yes some say no. The truth is that neither is right and neither is wrong. And both are right and both are wrong. Depending on an individuals perception of reality. This of course in no way diminishes or minimizes the horrid, evil things that were inflicted on so many of which we know Exie was one. It only identifies that she reacted to her given situation in her own unique way, because she is an individual. The action produced an opposite and equal reaction. Her reaction was equal to the action done.

Today we are all presented with more actions every day. And we react to them based on our perception. When we change our perception by changing the knowledge from which we base our perceptions we can change the manner in which we react to a given situation. This is why some people are "growing or rediscovering" a backbone. They are learning as some of you have mentioned that they are worth something, that they are important and still children of God and all sorts of other true and uplifting things. This gives them a new perspective on themselves and life in general so they now are not even swayed by something that once would have knocked them on their foot.

Ya'll have pointed it out several times: Self love and self worth are a huge thing! And are absolutely necessary to have a healthy backbone.

P.S. Exie dear I hope that you don't mind me using you as an example in this manner. If I have stepped out of line please let me know and I will delete the post.

Oldiesman the same applies to you, please let me know if you feel that I have stepped out of line.

I hope that I didn't confuse anyone here. This darn couch has gone crazy!

In terms of behavior, I think you were right the first time, Eyes. I think in terms of character though, that backbone was underneath the passivity and subservience, keeping us going. Recovery is sort of like pealing away the layers of an onion (the false doctrines and adaptive behaviors) and seeing there was a diamond at the core of it. The adaptive behaviors weren’t so great, but that doesn’t mean WE weren’t.

Great distinction Spot! It's great to see, in my life, now that I have severed the cord that once linked me to false doctrine and in many ways also to my own pain, guilt and shame, I can look in the mirror again and see a person that is more than a shell. Who I chose to be and ultimately where I chose to go depends only on me. As Dooj was saying I can blame nobody but ME from here on out if I get hurt. My eyes really have been opened (hence the name) and I can see deception, falseness, lies and manipulation as I am certain many of you can.

Our little stint in the Way in many ways has allowed us to see these subtle things. Most others that did not have twi in their background do not see them as easily until after the fact. We are of course not perfect, but it was an experience that most of us can say we learned that little bit of perception from. For example if we were manipulated then we see when someone is trying to manipulate us now more readily. Something like that.

Ahh...it is good to see that onion again...can I get a parfait?