Eyesopen

So this is a tradition? Well by all means carry on.... Don't mind me I'm a bit emotional today. I shouldn't post when I get all emotional. 'Cause then I just want to do a group hug! Ok I'm better now... :blink:

Alright I think I get it now. When you said it was a metaphor for fruitless behavior in general I misunderstood.

So much in here that I want to comment on. This thread truly demonstrates that VP and PFAL will always remain linked and inseperable in our minds. It is true that VP did not walk the talk. His actions damaged many and the damage is far deeper than many realize or wish to acknowledge. One of the greatest hurts that he did to us all, and I mean ALL was his neglect in the area of our Lord Jesus Christ. This has been discussed on another thread recently so I will not revisit the topic except to say that it was IMHO a spiritual crime for him to teach us that Christ was absent, and that is all I'm going to say on that matter. More than anything I wholeheartedly agree with you that "God is not done with us yet". We have much to give to each other and others. We were called and we did answer, but then we got sidetracked, some were forced off the road others just got off before they were run over...however it happened we have all journeyed through life and ended up here at GS. Once again we have the opportunity to be with other members of the same family. We have the chance to bind each others wounds and pray for each other and it is a darn shame that so many still want to rip and tear at their brother or sister in Christ. I speak to no-one in particular but if the shoe fits... Much has been shared here on this thread, some of it has helped cleanse a huge wound in my own side that I have allowed to both bleed at times and fester at others for 20 years this year. But now my own salty tears are cleaning it out so that it can be bound up to heal. This deliverance came from the pain and knowledge and sharing of someone on this thread. Had they not spoken for sake of fear or persecution...who knows how long I would have waited to hear those words from a sister? I thank God that He gave her the strength, voice and love to share here despite the battering that she took when she did. Despite all of that she answered God's call and spoke... I understand where everyone is coming from...points from both sides have merit...but please can we not stop fighting amongst ourselves and start reaching out our hands to help others? Please can we not stop thinking only of ourselves and share so that others may find their way out of the darkness? Perhaps I am speaking to a wall but maybe someone can hear me on the other side? Thank you CatCup, Rascal, Dooj, Dot Matrix, WhiteDove, Oldiesman, T-Bone, WordWolf, Exie, Words&Works and everyone else that has posted on the thread, and yes I know it is not my thread and no I'm not God, you have all contributed to a wonderful piece of work but could we please just let it end in a peaceful way? If this plea offends someone...well...tough live with it.

This is very interesting....I know that myth certainly supports the idea of fallen angels coupling with humans and producing offspring. I have never really looked to deeply into it. Not because I was not interested but because I simply never found the time. Sunesis your idea seems to have logical merit. Please if you have time tell us more. I wasn't around for any previous thread.

Well as all things scriptural I immediately refer to what was taught in TWI and then send it through the ole logic sifter and see what falls out. The I add all that I know now on the subject and what I personally think about it. Then I end up with this.... In the OT it is indicated quite often that God directly tells Israel not to worship other gods. In many of those instances He is refering to a specific god. So that kind of leans away from the TWI stance that "anything" can be a god. I think that there is a fine line between making work your god and the god of the harvest. I think that a god requires certain criteria to be a god. To be a god they must be worshipped, sacrificed to, a certain amount of belief is placed in them and they always have some sort of image (like a statue). All gods have rules of worship, dress, morality, and behavior. And all gods have a single point of worship even if it is many headed. So work still qualifies. Except does God ever address work as a god? Or any other similar thing? But as we have discussed before just because a god had a different name than what we call ours today does not mean that they are not one in the same. Perhaps to worship an ideal or a set of moral values that are contrary to those of JWHW would be worshipping another god. Certainly the blatent example would be Satan who has a very different set of moral values. But others that are more subtle would be harder to detect. In the book of Romans the fashioning of an image and then worshipping it is idolatry because it is an image of that which was created and not the Creator. Given that piece of information, if our God has an image then it is the wrong one. Ok I gave it a stab...who's next?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. Certainly in light of children it is fruitless. But those that are homosexual certainly do not believe that their love is fruitless. Hence their "behavior" is not fruitless anymore than a heterosexual's would be to them. I am also curious what your disertation is about.

You are correct as Abi said can be quite addicting. And a lot of fun at times. I don't want to start a war or anything, but could you explain why you say "fruitless". Does this refer to the obvious lack of natural children? Dan- I see you found the correct "controls".

How dare you? You dont want to make the time...but you did make the time to write this insult. Amazing! And sad. Thank you so much for giving her your blessing to help people. Sorry folks that just got under my skin a bit...

Catcup-Lady, you have no idea how much you just helped me. Not only with myself but with a dear friend as well. Through the tears in my eyes and the quiver in my voice I say "Thank you, so very much for taking the time and the heat to speak out here in this place." I hope you don't mind but I'm going to print it out to share with my friend. Let me know if this is not acceptable.

Roy darlin' you know I just love flirting with you! :D Larry don't use the pink pink...cant see the bloody stuff! I'm getting old...be kind!

Hey AD- The basement refers to "doctrinal" or any other forum located at the bottom of the page like the "soap opera" forum. If GS is anything it is "left field" or beyond but not the basement. That implies that they actually let us stay in the same house or that we would want to stay. NOT! This is our little house far removed from TWI. And we like it that way. As for your little "wants to sit at the counter" problem. That is a default line. If you want to change it follow this path...click "my controls" at the top of the page (right hand side). Then on the left hand side of that page is a list of stuff, click on "edit profile information" it's near the bottom. Then at the top in the middle is a box identified as "Custom Member title" click inside the box and write what you want. But only what shows in the box will show under your name. It will not see anything after it starts scrolling. So keep it short and sweet.

I got your meaning Bumpy. I was just wondering if you had heard the podcast. You must admit it was a bit coincidental. But they do happen. Quite often around me for some reason. Anyway....I think that it would be good for the stories to be told and put onto hard copy to preserve for others to learn from. It could be healing for the authors as well. Sometimes it helps to get it out...and if you may help someone else in the process then so much the better.

I remember when I figured out how to make the smileys open up. I used so many in a post that the puter said I had to trim it down a bit...now that my dear Jean is childish. It's fun learning new things. Great answers Linda! Welcome to the Spot!

That's ok I dont mind disagreeing, makes for a more lively conversation. Especially here in the basement. Up in the "other" forums it could cause trouble but down here it just means that we have more to research and talk about. You will also find that my head is not made of granite (although some might say that it is full of rocks!) I can change my mind...hence my tag line. Most folks that hang out down here are fairly easy to talk to and will at least give an honest debate and not a heated argument. Abi and Roy both give us wonderfully diverse points of view. Abi gives us a lot of history and background as well as heart behind much of what we were taught in twi to be "only for our learning" and not really given much time. Roy gives us a great deal of "outside" the box thinking that really gets the gray matter moving. He also graces us with a heart as big as Manhatten and a depth of perception that at times staggers me. Both Mr. Ham and CMan give us all a simplicity that keeps us all from getting too lofty minded and help us stay in perspective. CMan is usually quite direct where Ham likes to run around the tree a few times before he truly catches the nut. Both make honest, profound statements that easily cut right to the heart of things. Lots of folks hang out here in the basement. Most are seeking answers to their questions. Many dont really know that they had a question until someone brings it up. All add something to every thread that they choose to get involved with. And mind you...here it is "involved" when you post to a thead. This is not like some forums where you can just put in .02 cents and walk away. Here it behoves you to get involved in whatever thread that strikes your interest. We all learn more that way. I like this thread. I like the time you put into formulating the questions. You will fit in just fine here. :)

It is a sad truth. Unfortunately; many were litterally chewed up and spit out. I just had my leg chewed on in comparison. I have been reading your posts in another thread and I must say I am so very sorry for you and your entire family. Thank you for sharing with us all so that we may all come to a better understanding of TWI and VP.

I only mention it because a "anthology" style book was discussed. But the discussion mostly revolved around the "stories" that are told by some Spotters. We discussed the benefit that some of the victory style stories could help others and that it would be longer lasting if it were written someplace other than cyberspace.

Did you listen to last nights Talkshoe? If not you might want to.

That, right there was absolutely wonderful! Way to catch somebody sticking their foot in their mouth!

Hmmmm.....could be.... :P

Abi- That just makes me sick with anger!

Ok first off...yuk! That was more than I needed to hear this early in the morning as I still drink my first cup of Diet Pepsi and choke down some Pringles. Ahhh... Breakfast of Champions! I didn't so much come out the 17 year old that went in. I came out realizing that the 17 year old had been murdered, and all of her innocence and trust had died with her. I was hard and cold and yet at the same time afraid and so very lonely. It has taken me years to resurrect the inner joy that gave that 17 year old girl her boyancy and her vigor. But I kept the backbone that I had so carefully fashioned from my "training" and experiences. I just made it real, and not dependant upon anything except me. Yes, I love that we can all speak our minds and feel free to disagree. We are all members in particular and we are all members of one body. We are individuals that are all part of one whole. God does love infinate diversity. And oh boy are we diverse!

Well our twigs at home were not the best as our TC's were mostly just glorified SOB's but on the WOW field our family coordinator was a gem. Let me tell you a story: We didn’t require people to dress up for twig, only that they were clean and presentable. I should qualify that last comment. Lars was very comfortable with himself. He would often strip down to only wearing a pair of shorts. And I do mean “ONLY”. One time he and I were sitting in the living room chatting when he uncrossed his legs and planted both feet on the floor. The separation between them was considerable and he was leaning forward shaking his hand up and down with his finger pointing as he made a “point”. When he leaned back against the back of the chair to laugh at my response his “package” dropped partially out of his shorts. At just that time Grant was entering the room from the bedrooms and Sandy was coming in from the kitchen. She had a direct line clear view shot of Lars. “Lars! What are you doing?” She exclaimed half startled and half humorously. Neither Lars nor I had any idea what she was talking about, when Grant chimed in, “Yah Lars, are you trying to show off or something?” Well at that comment and a small nod of Sandy’s head and some pointed looks we both noticed what all the commotion was about. But instead of any of the expected responses Lars simply tucked it all back into his shorts and continued his conversation with me. This action caused both Grant and Sandy to simply lose it, they were laughing so hard that they had to lean on one another to keep from falling. But this brought about the rule that Lars had to wear underwear at fellowships. And no, she didn’t care that it was so hot his balls were sticking together, he would just have to suffer for a couple of hours. Good Times!

I dont know why not...now that we dont get reproved for jokingly calling ourselves a name.

I know that I really enjoyed chatting with everyone there. It felt like old home week for me. All I was lacking was a cold Pepsi. Sharing our hearts together on any subject was uplifting and I too came away with a sense of better understanding. The stories were awesome! And it was absolutely wonderful to finally say "hello" face to face so to speak with Rascal. Thank you Paw for having made that available.