Eyesopen

Ok I know that I am opening a can of worms here (and "no" sharks dont eat worms..we use 'em for bait), But the idea at least as I see it isn't to tell somebody "dont go there". Rather to tell them "if you go there you should know this first, so you can make a more informed decision." I get your point...God led many of us to twi. But as Abi said, maybe we should have listened when He said "Get out". This is wonderful! It is the perfect "individual" testamony of how God worked in an "individuals" life. And it is a beautiful thing. God spoke to you in this manner, and it worked because He did get your attention (I assume of course). This is/was not the case for everyone.

Of course...you must have seen me when I was just smiling....

My neice and I came up with this concoction that is very popular at family gatherings. 1 package frozen spinach, defrosted and strained 1 package French onion soup mix 1 can water chestnuts 1 pint sour cream 1 round loaf of sour dough bread or hard French bread (Never use a sweet bread with this recipe, YUK!) Cut a round hole about 4 inches across in the top of the bread. Scoop out the middle of the loaf and tear it into slightly larger than bite size pieces. Cut the top piece into similar size pieces. Set bread aside. In a medium bowl combine the spinach, soup mix, water chestnuts and sour cream. Mix well. Spoon the mixture into the bread bowl. To serve place the bread bowl in the center of a large serving platter and surround it with the cut up pieces of bread.

Very cool story John! Thanks for shareing.

Well, well, well....do I see chum in the water? 'Cid-You have asked an interesting question. I believe that you have asked it in honesty not sarcasm. And I see that some have chosen to answer. I include Skyrider in that category as "answering" your question as well. Sky simply does not necessarily equate "The Word" (as defined or used in PFAL) with the Bible. But I am going to assume that you are in reality asking about the Bible and you equate the Bible with "The Word, the Word and nothing but the Word." So I will answer on that premise. Yes....and yet a resounding No. Yes I would turn to the Bible first before any other form of media or personal opinion, but most certainly AFTER God and or His Son Jesus Christ. This would include specific situations as the ones that you have described such as "The return of Christ" or "The New Birth". As thanks to my "few" years in twi I have a few verses tucked into my brain. But I also believe that the Bible is largely two things, it is an imperfect history book and a rule book. I say imperfect because much of the OT was originally orally passed on for many generation prior to being written down. Hence it probably has a bunch of "personal" or inaccurate stuff in it. But the basic principals that God wanted to convey and pass on are still in tact. The NT is not without inherant flaws as well. But all of this stuff is best discussed in the Doctrinal forum in the basement. I would not turn to my Bible first if I wanted to say, restore an old frame and picture. I would instead turn to my good friend who is a master at this stuff and get competent and friendly advice. The Bible and the principals therein are the primary compass in my life. Despite this, I have been severely chastised by a very close minded individual here lately for going to "outside" sources besides my Bible to understand the Bible. :blink: Yup! That is exactly what I thought...WTF? BTW...wise choice to listen to either of these women concerning spiritual matters and take what they say very seriously. They are both learned, patient and giving. You can learn a great deal from them. Ok, now having found that the chum is devoid of any tasty squirrel chunks (probably because Dooj was here first) and the water has diluted the gravy, the shark is going to find breakfast elsewhere. Hmmm...Is Rascal serving up bisquits and gravy at the cafe?

It must be the water in Nebraska or something Oak. By second WOW year in Kearney, Ne. ended in disaster. Or maybe not, but I know that it was one of the longest most painful years of my life.

Blue BOWL Special...Dontcha know!

Nope! But thanks still swimming with squirrel bisquits...

MMMMMmmmmm......fill the hole with gravy, add some squirrel bisquits and the shark will be very very happy swimming around!!

Sharks eat anything with bisquits and gravy!! Keep talking and I'm gonna invite myself to dinner.

Oh goodie! I get to tell a story!! So to preface this is from my 1st WOW year in Jonesboro, Ar. 82-83. The names have been changed to protect the unwilling to participate! "Sandy" is my WOW sister and 12th Corps on her interim year. "Laura" is another 12th Corps from the family in Blythville, Ar. There were times when the WOW’s had their own meetings or gatherings outside of or in addition to the Limb meetings. I remember on one occasion we had one of these special meetings right outside of Little Rock at another believer’s house. This guy was very rich! We did not stay at his house but for one day we were allowed to use his swimming pool and they provided us with lots of food and drinks. There was only one hitch, seems like there was always a hitch...we had to clean off and wash the exterior and sweep and organize the inside of the pool house. Arkansas had an abundance of WOW’s that year so we had plenty of bodies. The girls of course got the job of sweeping the interior after the boys had organized things in a “logical” manner. We started out very early so that we could finish early and have more time in the pool. Somebody divided us into teams to get it all done. I got to work inside the nice hot, stuffy, dusty pool house. I worked with Sandy; she was in charge because she was in the Way Corps and two other girls and a couple of guys helped out at first to move the big stuff. Between us all we got it all done in short order. So we moved outside to see what was taking them so long to clean the eves of the little house. The thing had windows on two sides and we hadn’t seen any movement for quite a while. Upon exiting the pool house we saw that there were not many people actually working so my immediate assumption (yes, I know about “assumptions”) was that they were done and that we would all be pool bound soon. But on closer inspection the guys still had two or three ladders unfolded up under the eves and one long extension ladder leaning against the roof and the house didn’t look any cleaner or even wet for that matter. I guess they had been enjoying all of the food and drinks while they waited for us to get done with the inside so that they could use our brooms. Hmmmm…. does anyone else see anything wrong with this little scenario? Well so as to not cause any contention or schism in the body of Christ we (who were all just a little peeved) offered to help them. So we dutifully carried the brooms to the ladders and after a guy would climb the ladder, (it was too dangerous for a girl to do this) we handed them the brooms. Now mind you all of this happened on about 4 ladders at the same time. And almost in unison the guys turned towards the house, we stepped back and they reached up under the eves with the brooms all the while laughing and joking. The second those straw bristles touched the underside of the roofing I knew something was wrong. The eves were still in complete shadow as it was still early morning. But they moved…not the eves exactly but something under them that was quite large moved. The guy that I was assisting was not paying any attention to the eves he was busy joking with they guy on the next ladder so when the huge spider fell out of the eves and landed onto his head it was a complete and unwelcome surprise. Completely out of character for me, I screamed like a girl and took a retreating step backwards. At almost the same instant other spiders of similar size were landing on the heads and shoulders of all the ladder bound guys and nearly everyone was screaming now. The spiders themselves were about the size of my fist, some larger and some smaller but the legs were at least 3-4 times longer than their body size. They easily stretched their legs from one shoulder to the other while their body could be at least a couple of inches off of the top of your head. They were the largest Daddy Long Legs that I had ever seen! The eves had been completely packed with the things. I knew that Daddy Long Legs were among the most poisonous spiders in the world but they were also one of most innocuous. So of course more in keeping with my personality I started to laugh and didn’t stop until I could no longer breathe! Now of course while I was laughing myself silly, all hell broke loose. The guy that I had been assisting was frantically trying to get the large brown monsters off of him and his ladder was swaying precariously from one side to the other. It finally toppled over and landing him into a pile of the spiders that had originally missed any human contact. Meanwhile his ladder made contact with the ladder on his right and that one began to fall as well. Seeing his peril that guy jumped off of his ladder. People were screaming and scurrying in all directions, while the spiders tried desperately to dart between panic stricken human feet and get away from it all. When it was all over I was finally silenced not only by my lack of air but also by the glares of several people. But it was Laura’s “look” that wiped the smirk off of my face. I was carefully “counseled” by her about not laughing at people because they could have been in real danger, and how did I know that they weren’t. Well that one was easy enough. I told her what I knew about the spiders and she was not impressed. "So what did you want me to do while everyone was screaming and losing control of themselves? Did you want me to chase the spiders with a broom? How about run around and act hysterical like all the others, would that have made you happy? Oh, no I have it; you would have wanted me to pray the spiders into oblivion…. right?" You might well imagine the pile of sh!t that the last comment got me. Even Sandy had to balk at that one. But all she did was shake her head and put me to work cleaning up the mess. After all it wasn’t my fault that the guys hadn’t been paying attention. I didn’t put the spiders in the eves and I didn’t knock them out either. But you would have thought by the way some were acting that I had called them down upon the righteous to disrupt a gathering of believers. Sheesh…get a sense of humor why don’t ya? Sorry it was so long...but you asked for it! The shark will now swim away and look for more blood....

You would totally have to ask Java Jane about that she's the one with the magic possum cook book. But darn near anything tastes good swimming in gravy! Even sharks like gravy....

Hahahahaaaawwwhhhhaahahaaaha....I found that really funny!

Abi you do not offend with an honest question. And I for one appreciate your point of view here. What caused me to stay? As I have said previously I was not abused as a child. I was the spoiled little brat that had the perfect childhood..well as far as parents go anyway. So the abuse of twi was a bit of a surprise to me. But I really didn't recognize it as abuse until after I was out. I saw it as "just the way a ministry is run" or "some people just do things differently". I of course was completely ignorant of the sexual abuse and the child abuse. (None of that was right but it was not part of my equation. Had I known of it things for me would have been very different and I would have left much sooner. But that is not the question at hand.) I even tried to imitate the behavior that I did witness. And frankly some of it was not entirely bad at least from my point of view. I witnessed great confidence, strength of character, belief in self and especially belief in the ability to walk with God. Those things I imitated and some actually stuck. At the time I did not know that much of what I saw was fake or faked. That really did not affect the fact that I kept what I had made real in my life. I did try to imitate the whole face melting thing. We were told or led to believe that this was "Godly confrontation". Well I felt like a total a s s when I did it. And the person that I had melted looked worse than when we started. So it did not bring people back to "right believing" in fact it looked like I had just stangled their puppy in front of them...and how did that help their walk with God? I only tried it about three times and found that the results were always the same. So I didnt do it again. As time went on more and more things just didnt fit with what I thought I was seeing. After POP I began to receive literature from several "camps" and my doubts grew. So when I was sent home by Rev Pile I was not really upset about it, I was in many ways relieved. So in answer to the question "Why did I stay?" I thought that it was really of God, when I began to doubt that premise I began my departure.

It is this kind of hateful abuse that really just chaps my hide. If anyone were to have any true spiritual anger it would be because of this type of injury done to the members of the household, the children of God. It just makes me sick and really P*()$@)*^%^&*! Off! They did not tell me why they wanted me to go home...Rev. Pile said, "You know what you did." No I didn't.... Later I was told that I was possessed by then I didn't care what they said. Rascal: You ask: "How could a minister..representatives for God to his people DO these things...so entirely destroy our self worth that we could not even look to God for help??" That's easy, Romans 1 says that they have turned their backs on God, forgotten to thank Him and this leads to all sorts of bad stuff. Hurting and destroying people is not hard for them. They don't even break a sweat.

Well I was actually making a pun on the whole tuna/dolphin mix up a few years ago.... But you are correct many large animals are making it to the endagered list now days. The more little ones that go the fast the larger ones will follow. That's just the way it works in an ecosystem. Personally I absolutely hate Tuna. I feed it to my cats. As of yet they haven't started to put harmful ingredients into that "pet" food.

Dooj said: "TWI (the lies, hypocrisy, and degrading of God's people) was the shifting sand on which the buildings(the love of God and Jesus, the attitude of service and valuing each person as a child of God) of these servants stood. When the sand shifted the foundation strained to hold it together, until it all crumbled. " Great post Rascal! This is what I have been struggling with since arriving here at the Spot. "What did I do to screw things up so much?" That was the question for too many years. But as time has gone on, I have come to the realization that I didn't screw it up. It was messed up long before I got involved with it all. But then come the questions like, "How could I be so stupid?" or "Why didn't I see it?". Then I realize that this is also a reactionary question to abuse. Condemnation. "You" had to have done "something".... Condemnation the true mortor in the walls that kept us in our prisons. The bricks were the false doctrines and erroneous beliefs, the bars were the the MOG's that allowed us peons to clutch onto them while we gazed at freedom beyond them and their walls. Spot-I love that you shared your childhood with us. Your experience taught you how to truly hear God and how to receive revelation at a young age. In some ways you were raised by God and Jesus Christ. I love to hear the things that they taught you. I dont think that you were in any way weak to go from one abusive relationship to another, because you learned a lot and without you being willing to teach us what you know....well I cant speak for others, but you know my situation at home, I don't know where we would be without your counsel (and a couple of others). Probably drowning in a very large vat of pickles.

Yup! They should have issued suspenders to the Way Corps....I can see them now...green and white striped with a pentegon shaped clasp at the ends to hook 'em on your trousers! Oh wouldn't that be just the shizzle of the nizzle? I can see us all starting a fashion trend in the ministry....different colored suspenders to match the nametags and t-shirts and rings and jackets and ????? :blink:

Yes! That gives me great joy! I guess my "shark-like" appetite will just have to rely on Tuna....

They only got bigger when I was allowed to eat. In res I was lucky to be a size 3 (they were baggy)

Your are absolutely correct Rascal, but I seriously doubt if it will make much of a difference to some people. That is assuming (yes, I know about "assuming") that they read it in the first place. But it is a great thread, and I personally have learned loads from Another Spot and Catcup who started the other two threads. Wow! Bumpy, I find it hard to imagine that you are actually as callous as this post makes you appear. Please tell me that you are exaggerating to make a point.

My jeans got holier...does that count?

a•the•ist [ áythee ist ] (plural a•the•ists) noun Definition: unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities _______________________________________________________________ ag•nos•tic [ ag nóstik ] (plural ag•nos•tics) noun Definition: 1. somebody denying God's existence is provable: somebody who believes that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists 2. somebody denying something is knowable: somebody who doubts that a question has one correct answer or that something can be completely understood I'm an agnostic concerning space aliens. [Mid-19th century. <a-2 + gnostic] ag•nos•tic adjective ag•nos•ti•cal•ly adverb Encarta® World English Dictionary [North American Edition] © & (P)2007 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc. _____________________________________________________________________________ Sorry just had go and look it up for my own understanding and thought that I would share.

This causes me great sadness. I am fairly certain that it doesn't make God very happy either.

This is the best synopsis that I have ever read on the subject. I had never really broke it down like this to see why that line never really had much of an impact on me. It always seemed like it should have. I suppose had it been meant for what it appeared to be intended for it might have had more meaning for me.