freeone

Yes Victor was quite a character. I knew him years ago and he was always manipulative and thinking about him now he always had the "creep factor" of a predator! So sorry for Lindsay and the trauma she endured for being under the rule of that psychopath, she is brave for what she is doing!!

Wow this is interesting! Hard to believe anyone is left there, the music is the same as it was 20+ years ago when I was there!

This term "victim mentality," as I understand it, has nothing to do with whether abuse occurred or not, but the reaction of a person who suffered an abusive act, and is a contrast to the term "survivor of abuse" An example is: someone gets robbed and they spend the rest of their life with out of control anger (some anger is good) decide to rob others becasue they are such a "victim"...[victim mentality] or they get robbed and use the opportunity to learn how to protect themselves better [survivor]. There is NO DOUBT to me that the way was horribly abusive whether or not someone was personally molested or not. The abuse came in many forms! As for the details, I see no need to belabor or argue this each person knows their own experience and that is what is important. For those who had a good experience, that's great but it doesn't mean others didn't suffer. As for my opinion as to whether there was mind control, that is not a "black and white" definition. No, obviously people were not tied down and forced to do things. But in my experience my critical thinking was severely impaired, so the choices I made were definitely not made when in my "best moments" (that does not mean I"m not responsible as an adult, but seriously many of my choices were pretty lame!--who would logically consider in a group and feel they would kill themselves before leaving after 2 times being told "get out"?). [sure do have a lot of gratitude for not being there any more! ]

I also saw the Dr. Phil episodes about this cult and many things were familiar, not so much the details of what happened in the group as how the people felt after they left. A major theme of this group is that when people leave they are going to be destroyed, go to hell, or whatever that group calls it that is very similar to "God's hedge of protection is off of you." I still remember the exact details of what I was told. When you leave it won't be obvious that you are being destroyed, the adversary is sneaky, it may even look like things are going well, but the reality is that you are going to be destroyed by the adversary for leaving the ministry as the adversary wants people to leave so he doesn't want the consequences to be well known, but we are letting you know for you own good about this...........sound familiar?????? Then they started throwing people out!!! (how evil is that......) Anyway....inspires me to keep working towards my license and get out there to help people (not limited to ex-ways) :)

Excellent interview! I agree with an earlier post about this sounding like there is "more to the story," but then again that's a familiar story to many of us isn't it? I am so grateful for my life now, it sometimes seems like those old days is almost like a dream, but it's always good to remember what God delivered me from to help me stay grateful for where I'm at!

Just for a disclaimer on my posts--I don't claim to be biblical--just giving my opinion as someone who has had a little experience with CES! TWI totally turned me off with all the Bible fights we were forced to have with all the "horrible church people of the world." I like scripture but refuse to use it for anything but my personal life & helping people face to face. When I used a the term "hold in abeyance" I was not meaning to say anything scriptural. I'm just waiting to see what plays out. I forgot we used that in TWI, I don't remember what it was for but now I remember the words--probably where I picked up the vocabulary--sorry guys! As for the prophetic council being the base of decisions I cannot have an opinion there. I left before the prophetic council formed and was unaware of decisions being made based on prophecies. It was my understanding from before then that prophecies were to be considered (ie if someone gets a personal prophecy consider what is said and whether it rings true with what you know is going on in your life) but not as an end all. I never read the latest prophecy book. So I'm not up on the latest CES stuff. I've been too busy with other life stuff. I also agree that email is not a really good communication tool either (I read a post somewhere about that and personally have experienced that--just words no tone of voice or seeing the person). However it is better than nothing so I'm glad we have it. Also for people like me it adds the element of safety (we can be anonymous). I appreciate reading what everyone is saying. It really helps to get all the different perspectives.

Reading all the correspondence saddens me. Everyone says something different, the information that leaked out does not tell all of the story (how can it it is about personal stuff that should have been taken care of in-house, obviously there are some deep betrayals of confidentiality), and the replies on this site show the insanity of how it appears on the outside (obviously---who in their right mind would base a marriage on a picture of a woman with spiders). I really think prayer is the best idea for all of this, but for me it's FROM A DISTANCE for my safety. When I was involved in CES there were too many toxic situations for me (not referring to board people that was not my experience but I'm just speaking from my expeience not disputing what anyone else has to say). The reason for my prayers is because these people are all still part of the body of Christ and I believe it is important for us to pray for those that hurt among us. I have my opinions but they could be wrong as I don't know the whole story so I'm holding in abeyance until things play out. Happy New Year everyone!

Handcuffs--I love it! Dorothy Owens would flip out for sure!!!!!

]It just seems sad to me that this is repeating. In the Way during the 90's the same thing was happening, one year people would be "spiritually trustworthy" then all of a sudden they were "mark & avoid" Later on I learned that such black and white thinking was toxic and unhealthy. Sad to see this is now happening with CES/STFI, but glad to know I got out on my own this time aware of the unhealthy thinking that was occuring around me. I really do pray for God's will in this situation. I'm not going to pretend to know what that is.