Infoabsorption

There is a commentator who believes that Adam himself was the serpent in the garden of Eden. This is one theory I've never heard or read or even contemplated. Below I've copied and pasted a question & answer from an email blog I receive. I didn't read the original essay but the question & answer explains the theory in detail. I'm not espousing this theory but I simply think some here would like to read about something different and possibly make for an interesting discussion. When the serpent addresses Eve, he asks, “Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?” “Ye” is plural; hence the serpent is asking, “Has God said that you-all shall not eat . . . ?” Why would the serpent (Adam) address Eve in the plural? If the serpent was Adam, and he was including himself in the question, wouldn’t he have said, “. . . we shall not eat . . . ,” first person plural rather than second person plural? In fact, this is how Eve responded; “We may eat . . . .” When God metes out the punishment for disobedience, He speaks to 1) the serpent, 2) the woman, and 3) Adam. Why would God speak to Adam twice, referring to him by two different titles (the serpent/Adam)? Furthermore, when God speaks to Adam He doesn’t say that Adam’s sin was slandering God, but rather listening to Eve: Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, If Adam was the one talking Eve into eating the fruit, after which she gave some to him and he ate, how is Adam “hearkening unto the voice” of Eve? Those are my initial thoughts. From my perspective, seeing Adam as the serpent doesn’t flow naturally from the text. Here is the reply: Thanks for the response. I trust that your questions and comment herein do not mean that you are going to ignore the balance of my article. While it may be true that “ye” is plural, I think that a better way to phrase Eve’s question would be “Yea, hath God said that we-all shall not eat…” The reason that I would think this is the fact that Eve was not yet in existence when God told Adam “…that you shall not eat… Thus, the only way that Eve could have heard about the Tree of G & E was from Adam and she knew that she and Adam were the only two people in the garden so she would have said ‘we-all not “you-all. Adam also knew that he and Eve were the only two people in the garden. Thus, causing Eve to question what he had told her about God and the Tree of G & E; Adam/serpent said to the woman “has God said we-all shall not eat…” And Eve, quoting what Adam had told her, properly responded “we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but, of the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, we-all shall not eat of it,” and then Eve went egregiously off script by adding “neither shall we-all touch it, lest we-all die. Now let us take a look the passage were “God metes out the punishment for disobedience.” As we can readily see, God first spoke to the serpent/Adam: “And the YHWH God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” (Ge 3:14-15 AV) Questions about the text. If the serpent was simply a beast of the field as so many think (because that is what they have been taught to think) Why was he cursed “above all cattle and above every beast of the field” Simply because he was Adam who was “above/more subtil” than “any beast of the field.” In other words, he was not simply another beast of the field. He was the ‘man’ to whom God gave dominion (Gen 1:26 & 28) over all of the beasts of the field. The statement by God about Eve and her seed and the serpent and his seed also reveals in a clever way that Adam was the serpent, unless you really wish to believe that a talking snake actually had literal talking snakes that literally became enemies of the seed of the woman. In his writings, Paul very clearly explains that the seed of the woman referenced in Genesis 3:15 is Jesus and if we read carefully and with understanding, Jesus also clearly explains the who/what of the serpent seed that bruised His heel. Speaking to the apostate Jews of His day, Jesus said, “Ye serpents…Thus, the original serpent of the garden begets the little serpents that killed Jesus because: “I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father (these little serpents come from the original serpent). They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father (these little serpents come from the original serpent). Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil (slandering serpent), and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” (Joh 8:37-45 AV)” Other texts from the New Testament taken in conjunction with their counterparts in the OT also reveal this truth: “By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.” (Heb 11:4 AV) “Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.” (1Jo 3:12 AV) “Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.” (Jude 1:11 AV) For those with the proper understanding, these NT texts are of course referring to Genesis 4: “And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain…” (Ge 4:1-2 AV) “And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.” (Ge 4:8 AV) “And she again bare his brother Abel… (Ge 4:2 AV) According to the selected portions of these five texts shown above, Cain the unrighteous seed killed the righteous seed Abel just exactly as the NT demonstrates that the unrighteous seed/serpents of Adam killed Jesus, the righteous seed of the woman. Next God spoke to Eve: “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” (Ge 3:16 AV) And then God spoke to Adam/serpent: “And unto Adam He said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.” (Ge 3:17-19 AV) Now note: God specifically stated that He “cursed” the serpent and the ground. God did not state that He cursed the man nor the woman, punishment but no curse. In Genesis God explains why He did not curse he man and the woman: “Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.” (Ge 3:21 AV) If Genesis 3:15 is the “Protoevangelium” of the what of the "first good news" or "gospel" of man’s redemption in Scripture, then Genesis 3:21 must go right along with it as the first how of that Redemption through the blood of our Savior and Lord Jesus. God had previously told Adam that the day that he ate of the Tree he would die. The statement that God “clothed/covered” Adam and Eve with garments made from the skins of animals comes with a clear implication that God killed and skinned some animals to provide a “bloody covering” for their sin. This idea is further amplified in the Biblical account of Abraham’s sacrifice of his only son Isaac in Genesis 22: “And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.” (Ge 22:6-13 AV) In this account, God provided a “ram” to become a blood sacrifice in Isaac’s stead just as the death of the animals in Genesis 3:21, that provided the skins for Adam and Eve’s new coverings, were substitutes for the death that should have come upon Adam and Eve because they ate of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. Thus, the bloody death of the “animals” that were substitutes for the death of Adam and Eve and the bloody death of the Ram in Isaac’s stead all were pointing toward the ultimate death of our Lord Jesus. Under the Mosaic Law the priest’s sacrificed animals to provide a bloody covering for the sins of the people. All of these events, of course, pointing to the ultimate bloody sacrifice of our Lord Jesus that would actually provide, not just a covering, but forgiveness for the sins of the people as is all carefully and thoroughly explained in Hebrew 9:1-10:4, 11-14. Now for your other questions: Why would God speak to Adam twice, referring to him by two different titles (the serpent/Adam)? For several reasons, why did Jesus call the first century apostate Jews “serpents” and tell them that they were of their father the slanderer” “Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil/slander, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” (Joh 8:43-45 AV) Furthermore, when God speaks to Adam He doesn’t say that Adam’s sin was slandering God, but rather listening to Eve: Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, God is judging Adam by his own words, “And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.” (Ge 3:12 AV) Adam’s lame excuse was that his wife had given him some of the fruit so he ate it. It was not necessary for God to say that Adam slandered God for ““It is the glory of God to conceal that thing;” however, it is our responsibility as kings to search out that matter.” (Pr 25:2)”. If Adam was the one talking Eve into eating the fruit, after which she gave some to him and he ate, how is Adam “hearkening unto the voice” of Eve? Adam did not talk Eve into eating the fruit. Adam’s sin was causing Eve to doubt God’s word, which Adam had previously conveyed to her, by saying “hath God said…” In other words Adam was causing her to doubt what he had previously told her about the tree, thus to doubt that it was actually God’s word that they should not eat of the tree. Eve ate of the fruit because of the deception about God’s word. If God had not really said that they should not eat of the fruit of that tree then it should be okay to eat that fruit. So then hearing, believing and accepting the serpent/Adam’s words ““And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” (Ge 3:4-5 AV)” Eve looked with longing at the fruit of that tree, ““And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.” (Ge 3:6 AV)” This statement by the serpent/Adam, “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil,” was the ultimate deception and it also cleverly reveals that Adam really was the serpent. An actual ”beast of the field” would have no concern what-so-ever that the man could have his “eyes…opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil” This statement reveals the true nature of the man as he was greatly lusting to be like God and have the knowledge of good and evil. Read James 1:14-16 again: “But every man (must include Adam, unless you are willing to say that Adam was not a man) is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.” (Jas 1:14-16 AV) According to the New Testament, that is a perfect description of the progression of Adam’s lust, that brought forth his sin which brought death to him and all of us! Brian wrote: “Those are my initial thoughts. From my perspective, seeing Adam as the serpent doesn’t flow naturally from the text.” How does bringing in a serpent that can talk “flow naturally from the text”? Or even worse, how does bringing in a spirit being, with no previous reference, to inhabit the snake and cause him to talk “flow naturally from the text”?

Death defying, mutilated armies scatter the earth, Crawling out of dirty holes, their morals, Their morals disappear

Oh man! I'm glad I checked out the Name That Tune section this morning as I'm a huge fan of prog rock and Genesis is one of my favorites. This one is "Turn it on Again" from the very early 80s.

If I state the name of the band and the first line of the song do I win?

I know the name of the band but I can't remember the name of the song.

Hey Mark, I agree with you 100% on this subject.

"devil spirits" instead of "demons" also "manifestations" instead of "gifts".

Engine, My mother and I were invited to take a trip to D.C. on Ambassador One once. This was either the spring of 1984 or spring of 1985. I was in high school at the time. I don't remember any "orders" to keep this trip secret but we were rank & file followers not on staff or corps. My parents contributed to the Way Magazine by writing articles back in the early to mid 60's so maybe that was the reason she was invited... along with my parents donations through the years. I don't recall any other "select" folks on board except for Don Wierw!!e & a teenage Naomi Polling. One thing that stands out in my mind regarding that trip was a large group of people clapping & cheering as we exited the plane at the terminal. I wasn't expecting that and it seemed rather strange to my teen-aged mind. Looking back, it was probably a form of brown-nosing because Don Wierw!!e was there. A nice family from the D.C. area hosted our stay in their house while my mother attended various meetings.

Years ago when VPW's indiscretions were starting to come out in the open, I remember hearing phrases like "I didn't like his flesh, but he sure could teach some hot Word". I guess it's the same with failed prophecies. A lot of these people admit VPW had weaknesses but they seem to justify their admiration of him by his ability to teach the "Word".

Below is a link to a very informative article titled "The preachers getting rich from poor Americans". https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-47675301?utm_source=pocket-newtab

A family member recently told me about an attempted "casting out" incident that she witnessed in the BRC sometime between 1971-1973. She was only about 8-10 years old at the time and most of the details have been forgotten. Apparently there was a guy who tried to cast a "devil spirit" out of another man but the the guy attempting the casting out landed flat on his back. Anybody remember this?

Right, and the explanation that Christ was actually crucified on the preparation day and not on Passover day comes from John 19:31: Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. So in 30AD, if the dates are accurate, the preparation day for the back-to-back sabbaths would have been on a Thursday.

DWBH, the more I read about VPW, the more I realize that he was a scam artist as well as a lunatic. There was nothing that he came up with that was his own material. It was all stolen from others. I can't believe there are still people who think he was a great teacher.

Here is the way I understand this 30AD theory from everything I've read: The actual day of Passover was Friday April 7th but it actually began at the sundown the evening before which would have been Thursday April 6th. So the special sabbath(Passover) fell on the preparation day(Friday). The sabbaths were 2-in-a-row, Friday & Saturday. TLC, yes I've read about the 28AD theory as well which would have placed Christ's birth at 6BC, maybe March 22nd or 23rd. That one is very interesting since Herod the Great died in 4BC. 2 years before that is 6BC.

Raf, Passovers were special sabbaths. I read somewhere that In 30AD the preparation day for Passover would have been on Thursday. If you count the remaining day on Thursday(30AD) which would not have been very long, maybe an hour or so of daylight when Christ's body was put into the tomb, then it is possible to count 3 days & nights although it would have been just a partial day on Thursday.

I agree 100% DWBH. but I'm referring to TWI's official position.

Exactly Raf! However, I made a correction based on other Jewish calendars that I came across on the net. The 34AD date would place Jesus at least 34 years old and 36 years if he was born 3 BC.

It's been so long since I've read JCOP that I've forgotten which year TWI set for Christ's crucifixion. I remember that according to TWI the crucifixion must have been on a Wednesday and the resurrection must have been on a Saturday to fulfill the "3 days & nights" prophecy. According to Jewish calendars this Wed -Sat timeline could only occur in 34AD. Tradition has the crucifixion occurring on Friday April 3rd 33AD & the resurrection occurring on Sunday April 5th. Correction - It could have been 28AD, 31AD, 34AD

You got it GSG! Harper's Bizarre did a cool version of it.

this is from the last verse of the song so it might be hard to figure out. I think the one's who grew up in the 60s would recognize

haha...the big hair days when the guys spent as much time (and hairspray) on their hair as the girls. LOL. Here's one from a much simpler time when music was fun. I got no deeds to do, no promises to keep I'm dappled and drowsy and ready to sleep Let the morningtime drop all its petals on me

I actually miss those cheezy 80's pop rock tunes. Some friends of mine when I was in middle school were in a band and played one of Survivor's other songs titled " Eye of the Tiger" at the school's talent show. This one I believe is called Can't Hold Back.

Very good information here Penworks. Abuses within these special relationships appear to be rampant these days. If a family member didn't have 27 years of medical experience, several mistakes by PCPs and Hospitalists that were caught by this family member would have killed my mother. It seems once one hits 90 in our modern system , a common phrases starts popping up: "her body is shutting down" and "you should consider Hospice"...although her blood work and vitals suggest otherwise.

Is that the one that had all the artwork & paintings in it from various TWI artists?

Yes, it was immaculate inside. Had a huge staircase which was really beautiful. I remember spending the night in it once for a "teen advance". We actually had a great time during that particular event. I think Mark Carli was our counselor. Vaguely remember some tunnel in the basement.