Captain Crunch

Hello, All! Sorry I have been away, too busy. It took me quite awhile to read and catch up. As the economy worsens I spend much more time making ends meet. I heard that John Lynn and Elizabeth had reconciled. I am very happy about that. Elizabeth really fought for that. I have also heard that there is no longer much mention of these issues and that everything is pretty much business as usual at CES. This concerns me. There is no response from John Lynn, John Schoenheit, Dan Gallagher, or the Theisens to this group. DWBH has posted some reasonable questions. I do understand, though. GSC is a really rough group. Most everyone here is relatively anonymous and we want one or all of the CES principals to speak straight and out in the open. That is pretty scary. Someone might say B*S* in response to a post. Or worse, write a critical response. I can't help but think that Paul would speak the truth in love. But when I think of what might be the terrible downside of posting here, I get: 1. You cannot control the direction of the replies. 2. You might be really embarrassed and hurt by the responses. 3. If you are unstable, you might commit suicide. 4. Someone might try to sue you. GSC is a lot easier than being on the hotseat at Momentus. Answering these questions of DWBH's could be done without eliciting a lawsuit: 1)What is your ministry's current teaching regarding the use or misuse of "personal prophecy"? 2)What is your ministry's current position regarding [*] the application of the "gift ministry" of a prophet? What have you learned or "unlearned" [*]? *reference to individuals removed 3)What do you believe your ministry's responsibility is to your followers regarding an explanation of "what went wrong"? what have you done to correct any wrong doctrine or practice? 4)How will your ministry's leadership function differently in the future? In your opinion, have you or do you need to change how your leadership functions as prophets, teachers, pastors or evangelists? 5)Do you still publicly or privately promote the Momentous "training" to your followers? [OrJohn Pezzi's "training"] if yes, why? if no, why not? 6)Who is currently on your board of directors? Your prophetic council? According to JAL from his December 26, 2006 letter that Jeff posted for him: In this letter he only addresses "this heart-rending situation" of the board members disagreeing. Boy, that sure is heart-rending. <_< NOT! What was done to Elizabeth, and others, was heart-rending. I am looking forward to receiving your next letter "given the way that documents such as this somehow wind up on the Internet" so that we can see how you have changed your heart and your ways since you have realized the problem was a lot bigger than a disagreement among the BOD. I started this topic almost a year ago because I saw that people were being hurt in CES and the powerbrokers there were too self protective and self serving to hear anything from disenters. I have heard that there has been repentance and reconciliation going on. I have heard that as soon as the Graesers are out totally there will be openness and honesty for all. I hope that is true. But what we want to hear here is some "light" and JAL's or any BOD members "perspective of the [truly] heart rending situation" of people that have been used and tossed aside. Sure it will be painful. But you will not be physically crucified. You can only share in part with the sufferings of Christ. My fervent prayer is that you reply.

I heard that although there was a negotiation meeting proposed by the CES Board Members, John Lynn and Jeff Blackburn, the Graeser's and Resner's declined to meet so the lawsuits will be proceeding. I do not know what the court dates are yet. CC

Linda, and anyone else confused about who started all this on GS. I posted first. And as I have gotten new info I have attempted to post more. I am not someone high in CES. But I do care deeply about those that are and everyone who thought CES would be different. I am just someone prayfully doing what he can with what he has. I heard the buzz that CES leaders thought the problem was only a few months old. But I became aware of it when John Lynn divorced his 2nd wife after only a year and a half. Read the documents in the "Read the Facts First" thread. There are a lot of lurkers reading these documents who are quietly praying and acting accordingly. Just because they don't post doesn't mean that nothing is happening. I am sure this is impacting everyone involved. CC

We would not use testimony from the forum. But if someone PM'd me or I PM'd them after posting, we would have them write a letter. This is what happened on Waydale, remember? CC

As soon as a complaint is filed it is public record unless it is about an adoption or child abuse, etc. I imagine the Graesers are using GS as evidence. Jeff just needs to prove he said nothing false, which I do not think will be difficult. But the lawsuit lists 36 "facts" supporting the Graeser's claim. I think most of their claims are false. I hope some people here will help with that. CC

Please keep this thread serious. As soon as I get the public record of each lawsuit I will post it. At the moment what is needed are witnesses who can speak against #25 in Mark Graeser and Karen Anne Graeser vs Jeff Backburn. It states: If you can provide evidence of the contrary, please post it here or PM me. I am sure each letter will help. I think the other lawsuits probably have the same statement. Thank you! CC

They are PDFs. They still work for me. Try downloading the newest Adobe Acrobat Reader here: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

Found this in a search of Earlham College. Looks like Mark has been going there since 2001. Here he shares about it... Searching For Truth Wherever It Can Be Found CC

It is amazing what one can find with a search engine... If you want to have these, download them now. I bet Mark bullies them to take them down. Arguing by Force, Fear, Intimidation [Or Lawsuit] PDF More Ethics by Mark... Being Truthful: The First Rung of Christian Ethics PDF Ethical Reflections: Ethics & Logic PDF CC

I was surfing the WWW and came across this site which contains some interesting information about CES, Momentus and Personal Prophesy including old posts from CES' message board. The old message board posts are near the bottom. Some of the links are broken, but the ones that aren't, are pretty interesting. http://ex-ces.faithweb.com/custom4.html. Somewhere I heard that CES claims that only 2% of the 1200 CES followers that took the Momentus training were disatisfied. I will try to find that. Oh, I think it is in this interview, pg 26: http://www.excultworld.com/interviews/ces%20interview.htm Does anyone now when this interview was done? I found this quote by Mark Graeser to be interesting, end of page 22: You heard him, he is INVITING this kind of scrutiny. He wants to know how he shows up. CC

Maybe this will tell you what you want to know... Excerpts from Prophecy: Understanding and Utilizing the Manifestation of Prophecy CC

That is why when I first posted this, I named the thread: CES is in a Mess. Of course it is a crisis for Mark who may have to wash windows again. And it is a crisis for the people named in the defamation of character lawsuits. These would be definition number 2 or 3 below. But for CES as a group, it is a crisis using definition number 1. Here are some definitions from dictionary.com: 1. a stage in a sequence of events at which the trend of all future events, esp. for better or for worse, is determined; turning point. 2. a condition of instability or danger, as in social, economic, political, or international affairs, leading to a decisive change. 3. a dramatic emotional or circumstantial upheaval in a person's life. 4. Medicine/Medical. a. the point in the course of a serious disease at which a decisive change occurs, leading either to recovery or to death. b. the change itself. 5. the point in a play or story at which hostile elements are most tensely opposed to each other. –adjective 6. of, referring to, or for use in dealing with a crisis. CC

As I have seen it done and heard people in CES use the term, Personal Prophesy is requested. If you ask for prayer someone may prophesy, also. I have never heard one be negative, although, if you had an axe to grind, you could. Just as in a meeting, if you were to give a Word of Prophesy, you could say, "The Lord your God is damning you all to Hell!" After which you would be suspect. But the dreams given to Elizabeth were not Personal Prophesy, they were supposedly, "prophetic." These were not requested but delivered by a "prophet," such as Nathan to David. A prophet is supposed to say what God has told them to say. But since the New Birth, He speaks to us first. Elizabeth was well aware they were false. But the others in the inner circle were blind. Hope this helps. CC

Elizabeth recommended these books for those of us that have been close to this insanity. They have helped her recover. Please if you read one, tell me what you think. Christian Psychology's War on God's Word: The Victimization of the Believer by Jim Owen Breaking Christian Curses: Finding Freedom from Destructive Prayers by Dennis Cramer, Francis Frangipane (Foreword by) Confronting Jezebel: Discerning and Defeating the Spirit of Control by Steve Sampson Unmasking the Jezebel Spirit by John Paul Jackson Jezebel, Seducing Goddess of War by Jonas A. Clark CC

Here is the letter from the clergy siding with Mark Graeser and the Dec 11th letter from Mark stating he will not step down. These were sent out before John's christmas letter above. I think Elizabeth's letter in the pinned thread called "The Facts" is still the clearest explanation of what is going on. 2006_12_10_STF_Clergy_Meeting_Report.pdf 2006_12_11_MG_Response_to_Leave__final.pdf