cman

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=j...G=Google+Search One can attain much through a little with the help of the Holy Spirit. Whether or not the after crucification stories are true is irrelevant in light of the teachings recorded. The life of Jesus between 14 and 29 are the most I'm interested in primarily. What I believe, I have seen, and there is more. Even if Jesus never left the Palestine area, Jerusalem was a mega trade center for the world. Filled with many people from the east and these people would be able to teach their beliefs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxhcWUSoE4Y...feature=related A google or other search reveals more.

fear of- being wrong being corrected god gods devil devils lake of fire other beliefs possession unknown looking other people your own mind

What "word" is that johniam? They certainly didn't give it, whatever it was. They took more then they gave that's for sure. If one thinks twi/vpw was giving the word. What word are we speaking of? Since some here seek proof, as well as I.

As if twi or vp ever taught the truth. While practicing adultery and sex with others as truth. Any concept of truth in the BOT level and cabinet was warped and diluted. And spitting orders out at those who were trying to live godly, attempting to turn their hearts away from truth. You want documentation, it's here in these pages. Belle brought up a few topics. There are plenty more that have the proof. But you don't believe words do you whitedove. If you require more then that, the Lord willing. He will show you, if you can hear and see real proof. Proof of truth which you do not have.

Nothing wrong with having an opinion and voicing it. Just like facts and truth. This isn't twi, and many here do not go by it's law.

So you think you know what exc is talking about White Dove? Where's your evidence? Why do you think you know? Where is any evidence that you know anything about anyone? Yet you make your own decisions on the character of people based on you. Leaving out that there is the possibility of truth or facts completely. I think you are mad, no love from the dove. Such a wimpy statement. wtf are you going to do when you get 'mad'.

You didn't pick up on this one either johniam.

And speaking of lawyers.... The Judicial branch of our government is assigned with interpreting the laws to get the meaning intended by the law. It's a poor lawyer that ignores a laws intent, either prosecution or defense of an offense.

Words are used to form ideas. They can be used in a deceitful way, so as to disguise it's meaning. When put on the table word for word. It's the ideas that are being named and the actions that were promoted. And still are. We were taught to learn word for word, the bible. This is how other things were promoted. The ideas promoted were wrong in twi/vpw/pfal/leadership, and people who have been so conditioned to accept the face value of words instead of the truth.

I think we should recognize these again. From the book- The Subtle Power Of Spiritual Abuse (thanks Abi, from a post along time ago) ------------- The following is a list of some of the common struggles people face, when leaving an abusive religious organization. 1. You develop a distorted image of God. A God who is never satisfied who keeps setting higher and higher goals and is eager to let you find out how much you?ve missed the mark.. A God who is waiting for us to make a mistake?then point out all our failures, or to punish or humiliate. An apathetic God who watches when people are hurt and abused, but does nothing to help? And there is more ??. 2. You may be preoccupied with spiritual performance. Preoccupation with spiritual performance often results in a tendency towards extremes of self-righteousness or shame. Self Righteousness (a sense of spiritual superiority based on your own behavior) and judgmentalism (a sense of spiritual superiority based on someone else?s behavior) indicate a performance based life-style. 3. You have a distorted self-identity of yourself as a Christian. Confusion between guilt and shame. Guilt is a valuable signal indicating a wrong or bad behavior. Shame is an indictment on you as a person. You experience guilt when you do a wrong behavior; guilt is a good spiritual nerve ending causing you to right wrong behavior. You feel shame even when you?ve done nothing wrong; 4. You may have a problem relating to spiritual authority. They tend to the extremes of compliance or defiance when faced with someone else having authority. 5. You may have a hard time with grace. You find ways to push away the grace extended by God and the gifts from the other people, so that you end up going with out. Or you accept them with such overwhelming sense of owing that you find ways to "pay back" God and others for what they?ve done. 6. You may have a problem in the area of personal boundaries, an unclear understanding about "death to self" teachings and "rights". People who have misused their spiritual power have disrespected or beaten down your boundaries. They have shamed you out of your "no", clouded your will and intruded into your life with religious agendas. They have violated your spirituality by playing "Holy Spirit." Having an opinion has come to equal lack of submissiveness. Having a right to not be abused is selfish 7. You may have difficulty with personal responsibility. You may have learned to be under-responsible?..or learned to be over-responsible. You have a greater sense of God needing you than you needing God. The most extreme form of over-responsibility happens when you martyr yourself. Being affected by insults and thoughtless actions is immature, and having feelings is being oversensitive. Going without is a prime virtue. Feeling numb to life is the end result. 8. You may suffer from a lack of living skills. Abusive systems develop a "bunker mentality". This is characterized by being closed and paranoid toward the outside, and secretive about what goes on inside. The mentality is not only separatist, but highly judgmental. 9. You may have a hard time admitting the abuse. a) You are told that you are "the problem" for noticing there is a problem. That makes it hard to expose the abuse, even after you?ve left the system. b) Admitting the abuse out loud-or even thinking that what you experienced was abuse-often feels like you?re being disloyal to family, to church, even to God. Those who have experienced spiritual abuse as "normal" have lost track of what normal really is. c) It is so inconsistent with everything that is supposed to be happening in families and churches that the excruciating pain of it is short-circuited. 10. You may have a hard time with trust. Mark Twain once mused, "A cat that sits on a hot stove lid wont sit on a hot stove lid again. But it probably won?t sit on a cold stove lid either." Those who have been spiritually abused will have a hard time trusting a spiritual system again. This is extremely significant, because the essence of living as a Christian is a trust relationship with God, within God?s family.

Ha, Tom, -Yeah way-brain at it's best I think. Say something amiss and you get some sort of label like not honest or something. Johniam has some good things to say I'm sure as well as others And we all mis-speak or jump to conclusions. Like Ham said- Welcome to the human race.

Some us know the truth rascal. By talking to the people who not only received such treatment, but dished it out. You are not a liar and most here know that. By knowing you. Lately we are getting a lot of folks from other offshoots. So I'd expect some people to doubt real first hand knowledge of that which happened. And I might hesitate when and to whom to tell it to. Some have already made up their minds and their ears don't hear. And their eyes they have closed. As you know..........

AM I BEING ABUSED? CHECKLIST (provided by National Coalition Against Domestic Violence) Look over the following questions. Think about how you are being treated and how you treat your partner. Remember, when one person scares, hurts or continually puts down the other person, it's abuse. Does your partner… ____ Embarrass or make fun of you in front of your friends or family? ____ Put down your accomplishments or goals? ____ Make you feel like you are unable to make decisions? ____ Use intimidation or threats to gain compliance? ____ Tell you that you are nothing without them? ____ Treat you roughly - grab, push, pinch, shove or hit you? ____ Call you several times a night or show up to make sure you are where you said you would be? ____ Use drugs or alcohol as an excuse for saying hurtful things or abusing you? ____ Blame you for how they feel or act? ____ Pressure you sexually for things you aren't ready for? ____ Make you feel like there "is no way out" of the relationship? ____ Prevent you from doing things you want - like spending time with your friends or family? ____ Try to keep you from leaving after a fight or leave you somewhere after a fight to "teach you a lesson"? Do you… ____ Sometimes feel scared of how your partner will act? ____ Constantly make excuses to other people for your partner's behavior? ____ Believe that you can help your partner change if only you changed something about yourself? ____ Try not to do anything that would cause conflict or make your partner angry? ____ Always do what your partner wants you to do instead of what you want? ____ Stay with you partner because you are afraid of what your partner would do if you broke-up? If any of these are happening in your relationship, talk to someone. Without some help, the abuse will continue. (Adapted from Reading and Teaching Teens to Stop Violence, Nebraska Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault Coalition, Lincoln, NE).

Bluzeman your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance. People who think they are "better" then others, have your attitude. Talking down to others like they are less then you makes you nothing. And no, not trying to hurt anyone but put a mirror in your FACE!

at this point i don't care what you consider anything, rick you are a waste of good words today..... and i wouldn't have said anything until you grouped everyone who posted on this thread as "12 year olds" and gave your 'reasons' for not visiting this site much, but you do huh, bite that speaking of 12 year olds-you hit me first mwahhhhh....baby..... only nastiness i see is from you and the j's....whoopeee, important guy-meetings, I'm certainly impressed-NOT

so quit talking to me rick stay on your high minded bs if ya like your priviledge i mean wow, who i am i that you should speak with me? bait don't work if the fish don't bite bye

No not confused at all rick, you read it and responded. Have a good day, seriously. Then maybe you won't take a dump on everyone here. Thanks.

Pm me your address johniam and I'll have the Law at your door to check this out. If you are hitting anyone, including a woman or your wife, you are in deep trouble buddy. Come near to me and I'll have you arrested based on this thread alone. Little Punk. And seriously mentally ill. And btw Rick/Bluzeman-there are other threads that are not like this one. But you apparently are attracted to these kind and give your 2 cents. Plenty of other threads that involve better things. Do what you want and blame threads like this if you want. Start a thread you like or join one you like. Or go away. I've seen 12 year olds, smarter then you may think.

ha..yeah some views are here just for entertainment i think... God came down and boinked Mary... Did any one else? Or did God boink others? Kind of funny in a real sort of way...

You mean like this?

Hi Roy, I don't mean to focus primarily on this all the time. But as an addition to our ever widening view. Certainly Love is most important. But also understanding this that is called 'hate', I think can better our capacity to see, and go beyond our current limits of perception.

Ha!, So funny, this one certainly relates and is so simple to see. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate

If anyone has more info on the 'why' of hate and division, please post. And it seems religion and doctrines are at the root of it. Thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_groups