cman

No oldies not of your works that's for sure. It is the work of Christ. Of many that have gone before you. And have testified openly to deaf ears. It is the work of the spirit. In more then one person..... One must LISTEN to hear it. The 1 lost sheep that you search for, even though you already have a hundred. The one piece of silver that the woman took apart her house to find. And rejoiced to find it. These, and more, are not outreach parables. But parables of one's own soul. This is the WORK that is required to find. A letting go and ceaseing to fight, to inquire. Can't do both, fight and look, inquire.....find.... Eternal life has already been accomplished for all. Having it----- some want to find it.

OM, would this also include accepting all that Jesus taught? Not trying to set you up, but just to point that out also. As well as being shown by the spirit what he was talking about.

And what does it mean to confess Jesus as Lord and the rest of those two verses oldiesman? What does it mean to you? Personally, If I may add. Instead of some big scripture quoting contest.

o we are 'you people' now... hmmmm-interesting what does that make you in your mind, mike?

What are these results from pfal in your life Mike? All I see is an antagonistic atheist. Never anything about God or Christ. Just some books and material that you 'claim' to live by. But it's just your dream, that will not come true. No doubt in person these things would not be evident. But your typed words are evidence of real problems. That can be remedied. Though you don't want it, or think you will get anything different then your pfal and the rest. Or some new found "gems" in those works. You will Mike, you will, a promise and promises in spite of yourself. Your time, as it is, is almost gone, and you will not be the same, nor your unspoken ideas and results. God Bless, there is mercy and Grace to get to, and the road to it is white hot.

Common sense tells me that you will find out anyway. That not only individually and even more minute, but also universally with more gathering togethers then once thought.

Naa...it don't blow nothing. I have no theories. lol... Why is that they know perfectly?And the sudden destruction-is it not like binding the 'strong man'? So that an entering can happen without the man's interference. Man's ideas will be destroyed-changed. For the new to 'come'. Having experienced this, they know.

Here is a very straight forward use of coming as a thief- 1 Thessalonians 5 1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. There are more, plenty more, especially in the gospels. There will be many and for many a 'day of the Lord'.

Sunnyfla, I mean no offense, I can take whatever someone else believes. Like you, I have dealt with many beliefs, believing they were right or wrong. Then it comes down to ourselves and what we know, right or wrong, who cares. And down to what we don't know, as that really is a key to finding answers. Christ, as the thief, is written about throughout the bible. To do what has to be done it happens this way. Jesus said not to look for Christ here or there, but that he is with you and shall be in you. Being with you and in you are so very close, both within where the kingdom is.

Looks like the dust, the spirit of man, and the spirit of the beast, all go to one place as it seems to say. Who shall bring him (dust, man and beast) to see what shall be after him?

The answer is no to you, but yes to me. The dead are alive now. No line, no waiting. You have to see it to believe it. Christ comes as a thief first. Unnoticed. For each individual imo. One is taken the other is left. That don't mean the other will not have Christ come again. And from where does Christ come, since he is in us? Are we seated in the heavenlies or not? Now.

So Rachel, when your body returns to dust, so does your soul?

I think of a 'gut feeling' as believing without seeing kind of like you know but not quite clearly you can see it in your mind but putting it in words is hard to do I think it is able to be seen clearly the looking through a glass darkly is followed by face to face both come and go with the wind...pneuma is wind ya know...

My oldest son was most involved in twig. Watching his father teach he picked up on teaching rather quickly and did a few while he was still quite young. Unfortunately he got hung up in twi thought and rebellion. Which he was delivered from about 3 years after we left. We are still very close as well as our whole family. twi teaches hatred within families. They don't say it directly, usually, but it is practiced. Nor do they understand what a family is. I can say that twi's influence and hold on our family is over completely. However some of our relatives frequent, or used to frequent an offshoot. To which they tried to get him involved. I closed that door and it will not open. twi is over as far as their influence on our family. And it will stay that way as long as I'm around. I am thankful he learned some about singing and what god is not though. And thankful we were delivered from it's enslaving fear.

I would like to see more contribute to this very important topic as they see fit. I order to to really get more heart input rather then what we were told to think. What are things like in the 'gut feeling' of a person regarding life and death. No need to try and prove anything, except to ourselves I suppose....... As Ham says - we never were actually dead - or will be. I reckon he means as in nonexistent, I could listen to more of that. I could listen to a lot about life.

Faith?!....yeah... If we decide that what this person writes is true then it is not of faith but of our mind deciding instead of being shown. Sure we are to absorb all the material we can, but be careful that you don't go crazy! Basically, untill you are shown what it is to die you will not know. That showing is the experience of death and birth, dead as a seed and sprouting like birth. It is spoken of in the bible and other places by those who have died and experienced death. These employ the words of knowing what it is to be dead and resurrected. Until one is willing to take it on face to face then it's guess work. And using the words of others to pick and choose what is "logical" or "fits". It will all be torn down and rebuilt, using the same old stuff and some new. But the wisdom that is from above will not jive with what is gained from books conventionally. A new wisdom will begin to surface and be seen. And that wisdom that is in some books will be seen also. And in the words of those talking to you. And not of ourselves but springing forth from within ourselves.

Well...lol....good stuff there folks. It's kind of like a book tossing tournament though. Not the same as the coming and meeting Christ in the air without a doubt. Knowing cause we are lead by the spirit, and not that we are right or wrong. But that we are being lead into all truth, world without end. Now is the time, or can be, or when we die. Dieing before we die is evident in Romans through Thessolonians. Documented in Revelations. All in the Lord's good time, not ours. Then we begin to recognize those trumpets, angels, flames... and interpret. Getting wisdom and knowledge. Slowly and quickened too. And see this Christ of whom we are and have been and will be. And dead will have no meaning like it does now like death. But life, cause things will be seen and experienced. Which may be the opposite of what is thought now.

Yes, according to what you think a "true believer" is Geo. You would most likely think like that. What's irritating is people being a bigot and ignorant on purpose. It just may surprise you what a true believer would find amusing.

No.....it's not that simple. Taking the time to see other perspectives is doing what the bible teaches.

It's a matter of perspective really. The dead are dead. Or asleep. Who needs to wake up? The resurrection is - every man in his own order 1 Cor 15 Which can happen before we die. And will happen after we die.

Interesting sdubject, since we all deal with it. Let's get basic ideas going here. What does dead mean- 1. to us 2. to the dead 3. to God The first person killed, God said his blood cried to him from the ground. If I recall correctly. I also think things have changed for the dead with what was done at the cross.

-figurative or literal- is that the only choices? let's get specific then what is dead what is alive the who that is alive, there is no doubt where are they that are alive for Christ is not one but many and that which is dead is not a who

Disappearing is not the same as leaving. Just how close is 'heaven'? Christ?

And where would that be so clear in the bible, Oakspear. And what verses will we magnify and which ones will be ignored or explained away.

You will have to get that answer first hand JeffSjo. The ones that were told this, did.