cman

Poor guesswork Oldiesman. You haven't presented anything. Nor do you have a clue as to what I think. Though it's all over this site. Your use of the word 'doctrine' is a waste of time. Put something in it or it does not stand or fall at all. Neither is it the purpose of doctrine to stand on it's own. Or to fall on it's own for that matter.

What truth are you speaking of oldies? Start a thread on it, I haven't seen it yet.

No Brideof, it says Doctrinal. Not Christian Doctrinal. And isn't 'Jesus' the Word in the Flesh? What made that possible? According to Jesus' words, 'in you' is the whole point. It isn't 'Scripture in you' but Christ. Without that, there is no scripture.

That is a box Rachel. No matter what version or translation. If someone can get something good out of any version or translation. Then what's the problem. The standard of Truth is within the individual, where the Word is and dwells and has life in itself. I could list scriptures from any version or any translation. As well as scriptures of many religions. There are quite a few. Scripture is still being written today.

Some very interesting reading on -stoicheion- from many sources.

what is truth?

It's kind of funny how 'mythical' and 'rational' mean separate things to some people. Till you add mythical 'world view', then it adds that "common" taboo and basic "I don't want anyone to think I'm crazy". But it ain't crazy. And then the rational 'world view' which one can escape or hide or not have to deal with the "mythical". Which is more REAL then the "rational world view" of which the rational can and does get rationalized to nothing. Although both fall together so beautifully when it can be allowed to.

http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=M...p;ie=UTF-8& there's a link to some groups changing the wording and type of search will get different results as you know depends on what questions there are answered http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz...ves&spell=1

We were trained to hate others, hate each other and hate ourselves in The Way. Some people see that and have changed. Some people see that and looking to change. Some people see that and don't want to change. And some people don't see it at all. I don't know about ck. I do know about the moderators of this forum. Why are you Greg speaking up for him? He still has a voice, let him speak with the moderators on his own. They are more understanding then you are seemingly giving them credit for. And making accusations without all the facts, unless you have talked with the moderators. This is a private matter to be handled outside of this forum.

hmmm...I think the divorce thing happens because of hardness of heart. And thinking of 'the beginning' as Jesus stated, I really do not think it's about after Eve was taken out of Adam. That would not be the beginning imo. Which brings me to now, which says there is neither male nor female in Christ. And then for a man to put that asunder would be more in line of what I was thinking. Divorcing from Christ, the man not abiding in Christ. Separating from in a selfish hardhearted way. And I think the pharisees knew the law and knew that Jesus knew the law. So what was the temptation? To speak about what Moses wrote in error or to practice divorce. And why would the pharisees say 'for every cause'. Moses law, a shadow of things to come. Yet one flesh had already been in the beginning. Coming again, and is even here now. As in the beginning. With a little extra kick to it.

Thanks sirg, I know it took a bit to keep it short. As far as the references I cited. I count at least six different subjects to consider. Besides the many different directions one can go with each. And with the context, much more then the book of Matthew could hold. Or quite a number of books with just the six.

I just do not see where it's only talking of married couples when there is so much else covered. Exactly what am I tempting anyone to do or think. Think for themselves about what Jesus is saying, that much is sure. The pharisees had there own problems, Jesus was not a pharisee. Jesus had a different look at the opportunity to speak imo. To which we are all entitled to. Consider it or not. Argue, but I will not argue back. You can think as you please. In all honesty I am not trying to start a fight, but to think on these things. It's anyones option. Their choice, not mine.

And Rachel, when I said think what you like, I meant it in no bad way. I cannot nor will not attempt to turn how you think. It's not my job. There was nothing offensive or 'slick' in my post. People have bibles, and there are plenty online to look at the surrounding verses. I posted what I was interested in, which does not leave out the rest. But I will not need to post entire contexts to make an observation. I trust folks can see for themselves what is before and after any verses I post. Though posting verses imo, is only a starting point for further discussion. And not an end in itself.

Do you have any suggestions as to how it can go sirguessalot? I can answer questions, though it may not be to the satisfaction of the asker. And I can decline further comment when I see it leading to war. I state what I feel I should state in this or any other forum. Perhaps not as gracious as some but it gets out. If some take it as offensive, I didn't intend it to be. Some things have a shock to it, and people react differently. I'd be glad to hear your thoughts on the matter. Respectfully, cman

No, I'll post what is seen to post. Just how many things do you think Jesus addressed in what he said in his response there in Matt. Not only what the pharisees thought, but much, much more. imho. You can read, you tell me what he addressed. In part anyway. There is always more to learn.

Well...glad you all got that out of the way. I'm interested in what Jesus said. No matter what Jesus said the pharisees would not hear because they were tempting him. All they were interested in was catching him in his words. But no, you can't catch the wind and bottle it up and say 'here, here's your wind' And for life being body soul and spirit. It certainly is. Jesus speaks of many things here including what the pharisees addressed. Yet they do not even understand that.

Yes, sirguess, the answer offers a greater view of the question and adding even more to question and learn. More then was expected I expect.

Thanks Garth, it is an honest question. Especially considering how he answered and the rest of his answers in this particular subject of which he knew about. Why did he bring up eunuchs? And more. If it was about the traditional marriage as we know today?

think what you like Rachel

Are some of these passages really speaking of marriage or man and woman as being separate people, or are they speaking of the soul? One example- Matthew 19 4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. 10His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. 11But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. Twice Jesus speaks of the beginning.

A hardening of the heart and narrow mindedness was not a selling point. They retermed this and more into other phrases from the bible they don't understand. Adding meanings that were not and still not applicable to these things. twi did not nor does it now acknowledge any thing close to truth in the bible or in their practices.

Isn't it this love and freedom in Christ what they tried to kill and toughen us against? And using this very thing to draw us in to hatred?

What really was our commitment? What was it that was our love? Back in the simpleness of finding some light. Not from the books, classes and programs. But in our own hearts. Did it surprise us? Is this our first love? And not so much 'the way', but our first intro to making some sense out of a few things. While twi was on it's own kicks. Didn't we look for righteousness? For those wonderful promises on our own?

You are not saying anything whitedove. It's you who don't know what is being talked about. Or a deliberate attempt to derail the thread. Why do we need to be 'careful'? And exactly what do you mean by that statement? In what way are we to be careful?

In what way and what words, white dove?