cman

It's the same 'old', just being heard makes it new. The scriptures will be brought to our remembrance. More then the bible as you know.

Funny how some get a way of thinking out of old writings. Beating a dead horse I think. Life is in the spirit of the words I believe. Catch that wind and see what scripture you may be sailing on. Not to put down anyone or any way of thinking. It's just that there is so much scripture being written/spoken now, it seems the old will not become new without it.

It seems many run from themselves constructing various amusements outside of the inner most thoughts Or perhaps just not aware of what great treasures are in us looking into the surface is of course a good start but only a start while some stop there Once finding that which we didn't know existed you have to realize that it is not our doing only discovering it's already been done and remains with us surrounding us the same old techniques that behold the outside of the cup yet within is unlimited and underestimated something that seems foreign may look undesirable digging a bit deeper, getting past the fear past what looks like the devil to discover god

What does it mean- the destruction of Jerusalem other 'prophecies' are questioned as to their meaning why not this one?

Dot, You worded your first post very well, looking for answers to a common question about that verse and general principal of making a vow or commitment. I didn't see any personal agenda other then wanting to know more. As one thing becomes clear many others will follow. God loves. He will not punish as man thinks of punishment or judgment. This love is bigger then anything and it is ours.

Hi Dot! I think it takes two for a marriage. so that would require vows from both people. The same vows. Obviously a lot of these vows were not from the heart and therefore not a vow as it's speaking of there. If the vows of marriage were truly a vow then there would not be so many divorces. Some folks just don't take it seriously. Abusing the spouse and other things that hurt without change reveals that person never vowed anyway. So that's what I think on the marriage deal. In part I reckon. I would think a vow unto the Lord would originate with the Lord anyway. With the Lord seeing more then us. Which means that God has a part in this vow too. And things do change and will even in a vow. So lets say I make a vow with another person. That other person could not agree and reject that vow. Or they could change the terms of the vow. Not much different with God I would say.

can you love you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dtUXvtJHsI

What was it said-the vail was upon their eyes? Was the vail in the mind? And which way do we look to see this God? Inside or out? Or both? Will this God speak? I hear this God in voices of people at times.... Even if they don't know I'm listening.

You never know, by not trying to see what another is saying. And old sirguess might surpise ya. He's got a lot going on these days, so time to make his point clear, as he was trying to do, is time consuming. And not that you are not worth the effort. I know all will see in due time, so does he. You couldn't grasp what he was saying but you did see what I said. There isn't much difference except for the layers uncovered.

Very true, so if you would substitute stages with layers then you know what sirguess is saying. We still have the parable as well as we still having faith. It's just a matter of deeper seeing that moves us from faith to faith in stages or layers, same thing to sirguess as it is to you. As seeing a parable as moving from truth to truth. Moving from layer to layer or stage to stage or faith to faith or seeing to seeing. Growth, process, stages, steps-measurable if you will. Though we already have it at hand, each layer or another and see what is revealed as we are led by the spirit. And some don't buy that spirit stuff, but what else could be leading? We learn to tune into those layers or stages and even see more of that layer or stage or faith which is not without substance. and also see more layers to uncover and past and present layers to be seen more clearly. See what sirguess is saying? Calling it stages is not a hierarchal type of growth. But a natural spiritual growth for all. It cannot be stopped. though it seems so at times. And no one is at the same layer, hardly ever. No layer is greater then another. But we can see that there is more to see, not only from the covered layers but the uncovered ones as well. See it?

Well, I don't like to say it, but a matter of semantics is a matter of semantics. I don't believe the bible is ever meant to be a guide to living, only an aid, as well as many writings. Our aid as stated in the bible is the spirit. Again it's pointing us to the spiritual. Or as some say 'mystic' which don't bother me any cause I'm still mystified by many things. Though the term 'mystic' is usually derogatory remark, in some circles. But not to me, even after and during spiritual events they are still spiritual and mystic. And can only be shown to us by the spirit itself. In many many ways. No matter what the bible seems to say to the scholars, they mostly miss the point. And I'm no exception, learning the interpretation of a thing takes patience and deeper sight then the words written. I've seem to have found, in part, that the actual learning precedes that which we can actual see in the scriptures. In other words, the spiritual eye comes first enabling to see what is written in our hearts. Then what they were talking about in the bible and many other writings open up more clearly. Deeper then the previous surface, carnal mind can reach. And by carnal, I do not mean that in a bad way, we did not choose this. But we can choose other choices. What is written in the bible came from the hearts of spiritual men and women. Not from scholars.

so you operate God...hmmm isn't it God working in us? to will and do of his good pleasure where does your will fit in to that? i would think you would need to let go of it interesting.... free will-a contradiction of terms I believe

And to clarify-the changes are in our understanding of what it is talking about, not the words themselves, but the understanding of the bigger picture and not stuck on one or two words which severely limit understanding in anything.

I'll rephrase. Using the bible to substantiate a belief without actually experiencing what it's talking about. Which I'm not saying you haven't experienced, nor do i want proof as some others. None of the bible is written to us, but about us. I'm not interested in what is to us. I am interested in what is about us, for real, in life, experienced. Which just about completely changes the outward appearance of what it it says. And becomes living Words of life that give NEW life to dead words. Again not saying you haven't experienced the Word which is not written but living. Living, breathing, changing, as life, as we progress and grow, as Jesus grew, and many many others. Sure God doesn't change, but what does that mean really. What does not change?

And I don't mind being questioned about what I believe, even when it starts a long ways off, i can get to some specifics, but there is always, always changes in perspective. our perspective of God and ourselves, which are not much different. imo. Just as your perspectives have changed. If they haven't, I don't see how they couldn't over time.

I don't mind disagreeing, it's part of life and using the bible to back up your stance is is not substantial, but have at it seeing there is many interpretations of such words i will not be tricked again into ignoring life because of someone else's thinking and i can handle your insinuations even if you don't see them

jen-o, i know you re speaking with sirguess. But all this guessing about motives and intent is silly and a waste of good brains you have. I've known sirguess for quite a few years now and none of these things you have ascribed to him are true. You won't rattle his cage much, but if you do, fasten your seatbelt. And open your ears cause this is probably one of the the wisest among us. Though the least is greater then he. And he won't tell you this but I will. Perhaps a second look from outside your own thinking would help. You can call it stages or steps or progress but the spirit is on the move. Whether we know it or not. And we are right in the middle of it.

It's interesting that no matter what we think, things are going to happen. Being dragged along as you put it sirguess, kind of funny. Outwilled by the will. Just to glimpse or an extended look at what is was and will be happening is humbling. The falling and rising all being drawn like a great black hole..lol..:) Both outside and inside forces at work, as though there is a difference. One may just mean something........

the process of the spirit coming revealing itself, being born it's timing not ours and no i wasn't referring to you as a bible thumper i looked up the references as well as many comments and works of men on the word and subject

i don't understand how conception and birth can be separated though the bible thumpers insist on a difference without conception there is no birth being born again would include both birth is both, cuz you carry what was conceived into birth it is a process with many processes at work i've seen it, lived it and still experience it daily some just need to open the eyes to more then someone's book or close them to see

I think the 'elitism' jen-o is thinking of is something that is an offshoot of pride. There isn't anyone at any stage of faith that thinks themselves better then anyone else. If it's faith we are speaking of. And there again, definition of terms is a biggy........... What is faith? We know from hebrews it has substance. "Increase our faith" the disciples asked.... then the mustard seed deal ever seen a mustard tree...lol... kindof like mustard, a little goes a long way too much is too much if we were to know everything at once then no one could handle it all in this life some know some things others know other things....

Stages are not meaning higher or lower regarding faith. Realizing more is in stages or growth obviously. I don't see how it can be called something that is stagnant. Being given the measure of faith would not rule out learning more about it. Which would include going down or up, and all directions in stages and growth. If one thinks that is elitism then it's their privilege I suppose. I don't think that way and I believe that growth occurs in everything including faith. Do we look at a child and think we are better then a child? Does a child look at an adult and think they are better then the adult? And coincidentally we are to receive as a child.

Wierwille's teaching of the manifestations is BS. We do not operate God or the gift. Ego filled nonsense with man at the center. And that's just a start.

Need i say more? You are looking in a mirror . You know why birds run into windows? Cause they see the same bird mocking them and challenging them. Which is there own reflection.